darthgoober's Amalgam Tournament Conformation Thread

Needless to say I disagree.

Firstly, whereas Karate Kid's skill does grant him the possibility of defeating most opponents, so does Batman's or any other comic geniuses' intellect on panel.

This is the forum, there's no plot or storyline here.

Karate Kid is a powerless human being, he just happens to be a highly trained, highly skilled human being. He's nowhere near as "powerful" as Ironman, it's just that his skill, agility, and precision would render Tony at a severe disadvantage (like Gamora Vs. Thing), but given that Tony has omni-directional attacks and forcefields, if he fought smart (as KK ALWAYS does), he could win easily. Black Panther could and has been "written" to defeat Ironman, it doesn't make him more powerful. Karate Kid has a "tactics" advantage, no more, no less, and I can't see any logical argument for why it's bannable. It sounds like insecurity in one's own debating skills or draft choices to me.

KK's simply a solid choice.

*edited for redundancy.

thanks Goober. Did you check out the complaints against Zero and KK?

........Blackout? 😑 The one with Darkforce? Isn't he over IM?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
thanks Goober. Did you check out the complaints against Zero and KK?

........Blackout? 😑 The one with Darkforce? Isn't he over IM?

And it's the Vampire Blackout, not the one you're thinking of.

Cool. Vampire? Is he over the caps?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Needless to say I disagree.

Firstly, whereas Karate Kid's skill does grant him the possibility of defeating most opponents, so does Batman's or any other comic geniuses' intellect [b]on panel.

This is the forum, there's no plot or storyline here.

Karate Kid is a powerless human being, he just happens to be a highly trained, highly skilled human being. He's nowhere near as "powerful" as Ironman, it's just that his skill, agility, and precision would render Tony at a severe disadvantage (like Gamora Vs. Thing), but given that Tony has omni-directional attacks and forcefields, if he fought smart (as KK ALWAYS does), he could win easily. Black Panther could and has been "written" to defeat Ironman, it doesn't make him more powerful. Karate Kid has a "tactics" advantage, no more, no less, and I can't see any logical argument for why it's bannable. It sounds like insecurity in one's own debating skills or draft choices to me.

Secondly, any adept tactitian or debater should be able to neutralize him for his shortcomings (he's a regular human, albeit a peak condition human).

KK's simply a solid choice. [/B]

Iron man has KOed Silver Surfer and the Hulk. Thse guys won't be allowed why because Hulk's strength would be far to high over the tourney.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Cool. Vampire? Is he over the caps?

I considered drafting him, but I don't think he's that tough.

Originally posted by Newjak
You see here is where I have to disagree with you. Batman and Reed can do these things with their intellect because of outside equipment and stuff like that. KK does everything under his own power. And there are plenty of people Ironman could beat but they still have one power that ability that is too far over the caps.

Iron man has KOed Silver Surfer and the Hulk. Thse guys won't be allowed why because Hulk's strength would be far to high over the tourney.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Outsmarting your opponent is in the same vein as out-skilling your opponent. I've seen Batman outsmart plenty of opponents on the fly and win without prep and tech. Hell, he took down Amazo.

Sorry, but respectfully, your and Leo's argument is hollow to me.

Being a better battle tactician is not bannable. You basically want to ban precision. That's all KK has.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Needless to say I disagree.

Firstly, whereas Karate Kid's skill does grant him the possibility of defeating most opponents, so does Batman's or any other comic geniuses' intellect [b]on panel.

This is the forum, there's no plot or storyline here.

Karate Kid is a powerless human being, he just happens to be a highly trained, highly skilled human being. He's nowhere near as "powerful" as Ironman, it's just that his skill, agility, and precision would render Tony at a severe disadvantage (like Gamora Vs. Thing), but given that Tony has omni-directional attacks and forcefields, if he fought smart (as KK ALWAYS does), he could win easily. Black Panther could and has been "written" to defeat Ironman, it doesn't make him more powerful. Karate Kid has a "tactics" advantage, no more, no less, and I can't see any logical argument for why it's bannable. It sounds like insecurity in one's own debating skills or draft choices to me.

KK's simply a solid choice.

*edited for redundancy. [/B]

i think he's fine as well, but looking at his feats it's pretty clear he is not 'simply human'. bats or daredevil could not come close to doing some of the things kk has done. bring up some of bats stupider feats and pis is called (hurting spectre, hurting hulk, hurting cap marvel, even stalemating kk himself for a while!). it's also clear he has superspeed and at least some measure of super strength to perform the feats he has performed.

panther could beat im with prep. from what i've seen of kk, he doesn't need prep to beat tony. but tony could take him out as well, i've no dount. but i don't think skill and intelligence can be viewed as part of the same spectrum -- at least not for this tournament. ltd prep really hinders 'intelligent' characters. kk's abilities do not rely on prep. i doubt anyone has ever won a tournament because they had the most 'intelligent' character. 😬

like i said, to me it seems like he'd be fine. if he really IS simply human, or not, i don't care. of course he WON'T be simply human in the tourney and kk with wonderman's strength could/will be a problem for almost anyone.

but, meh, that's just good drafting and a good amalgam imo.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Outsmarting your opponent is in the same vein as out-skilling your opponent. I've seen Batman outsmart plenty of opponents on the fly and win without prep and tech. Hell, he took down Amazo.

Sorry, but respectfully, your and Leo's argument is hollow to me.

Being a better battle tactician is not bannable. You basically want to ban precision. That's all KK has.

KK on the other hand needs no plot device and he isn't out thinking an opponent he outfights opponents. Reed can be as smart as you want but in a no prep match he ain't hanging with Superman level guys or beating them.

Skill is just as bannable as anything else.

Edit: And KK may only be Human but he has an ability that puts him over Ironman if what Trickster has said is true. Its simple without prep or gadgets or outside hepl KK by hisself and and a completley neutral setting can fight people over this tourney and that has nothing to do with outsmarting someone.

Let's say there's a character named Bob. Bob is human, but he knows a secret technique which can take out anyone below LT level.

He's going to be banned, right? Because he can beat anyone in a straight up fight. Period.

No, it's not Newjak.

You can't quantify skill.

Some of the other characters are more skilled than Ironman in one field or another. We'd have to ban a majority of the picks for excelling in one field or another if we ban skill. Sorry, but frankly it's an absurd argument. The fact that KK fights better doesn't make him more powerful, it just means that he can capitalize on others mistakes and weaknesses. That's all he does. It's not a power.

Just step your debating skills up.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Let's say there's a character named Bob. Bob is human, but he knows a secret technique which can take out anyone below LT level.

He's going to be banned, right? Because he can beat anyone in a straight up fight. Period.

If any character with a ranged attack is stupid enough to let a normal powerless human beat them they deserve to lose anyway.

This isn't a comic, it's the forum.

There's no plot devices here.

If you don't have faith in your debate skills you shouldn't enter a tounament.

Originally posted by illadelph12
If any character with a ranged attack is stupid enough to let a normal powerless human beat them they deserve to lose anyway.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=69734

I feel I should add something. Temugin is over the caps due to his rings. But in terms of his personal, skill, he can smash IM's armor, which has energy shields.

KK has hurt Mon-El, smashed force fields by sensing a weak spot and attacking it bare-handed, and more.

smashing the field
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Legionnaires-022-08.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Legionnaires-022-15.jpg

Well....see this one for yourself.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Untitled-Scanned-13.jpg

Now, here's the arguement FOR KK. Most of these feats may not be canon anymore. I'm not sure if Zero Hour or IC negated any of these feats.

Edit: Missed one. Dodges Mon-El's HV.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/LSH111-14.jpg

Originally posted by illadelph12
No, it's not Newjak.

You can't quantify skill.

Some of the other characters are more skilled than Ironman in one field or another. We'd have to ban a majority of the picks for excelling in one field or another if we ban skill. Sorry, but frankly it's an absurd argument. The fact that KK fights better doesn't make him more powerful, it just means that he can capitalize on others mistakes and weaknesses. That's all he does. It's not a power.

Just step your debating skills up.

That and their one ability isn't that far over. It is obvious that KK's one ability far surpasses Tony in power. I don't see Tony or any one in this tourney really giving it to Mon-El in power.

Skill is quantifiable. KK's gives him the ability to take on and deafeat Herald level beings. Batman can't do that without a plot deivce Reed can not do without prep time.

See the difference. KK has an ability that puts him far above the tourney limit in his ability to battle.

There is no questions about it.

And this isn't a matter of debating ability this si as simple as something being over the limits.

It is a is over the cap level and is a loophole of the highest order.

Check out my last post. I posted some of the better feats of KK.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Mon-El had a ranged attack...

Mon El was mind controlled and he was written to not fight tactically. He fought how he was written. On panel he made KK look good. In reality all he'd have to do is fly further up and blanket his field of vision in heat vision. KK can't dodge 3 miles worth of heat vision.

You'll be battling in a non plot driven battle. It's a non issue.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Check out my last post. I posted some of the better feats of KK.

I'm already well versed in KK. I used him in my previous tournament appearance.

I'm a judge now.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Mon El was mind controlled and he was [b]written to not fight tactically. He fought how he was written. On panel he made KK look good. In reality all he'd have to do is fly further up and blanket his field of vision in heat vision. KK can't dodge 3 miles worth of heat vision.

You'll be battling in a not plot driven battle. It's a non issue. [/B]

Oh well. I tried. I personally don't care if he's let in. I'd just prefer everyone know what they're getting into. I got a strat to beat him. 😉