Canada disgraces itself on the enviroment.

I don't think the word 'possibly' comes into it very often.

how many of them have you read?

How many have you?

not a lot

I've seen more summaries than papers. But I don't think between a half dozen to a dozen is an over estimation...

lol, as Chit said, this does appear to be devolving into a pissing contest. I guess I'll leave it at that 🙂

Originally posted by Starhawk
I am sick of people acting as if this is just a few people in their garage with a chemistry set.

57 World bank economists

200 of the world's leading climate scientists

Scientists and representatives of over 100 countries.

More than 1,500 of the world's most distinguished senior scientists, including the majority of Nobel laureates in science.

Well over 1000 peer-reviewed scientific papers on global warming.

A dozen out of over a thousand?

My only issue with Kyoto is that it didn't cover all the environmental problems. The rapid extermination of Bees is also a huge concern. Do you know that scientists have tried to artificially pollinate plants and failed? Cell phones are a major problem because bees can't fly near them. There is so many problems with our environment and the right wing have their heads in the sand because they are scared of taking a minor hit in the economy.

Originally posted by Starhawk
A dozen out of over a thousand?

My only issue with Kyoto is that it didn't cover all the environmental problems. The rapid extermination of Bees is also a huge concern. Do you know that scientists have tried to artificially pollinate plants and failed? Cell phones are a major problem because bees can't fly near them. There is so many problems with our environment and the right wing have their heads in the sand because they are scared of taking a minor hit in the economy.

He read a dozen, how many have you read? The other 988 to make sure they didn't say that? Like said a million times already, nobody is entirely sure of the matter. It might be true, but we don't know for sure and killing millions of people on a guess is absurd.

It's not a guess and the majority of these people are sure, I've watched many documentaries by scientists who are SURE. The Right Wing just tried to discredit it to pump up the economy even more.

Look, for the last time: Kyoto makes pollution worst because even if every developed nation signed (and stayed under limits), all the non developed nations can emit as much as they please.

It is counter productive.

So how would you clean up the environment?

Did not say I had an answer. This pro business shit has got to go, but there is no clean cut, simple answer to this. I have a good understanding of the causes, but not the solutions.

Men are greedy and don't give a **** about what they do not feel will impact them immediately or directly. Any real solution is way more complex than "let's just help Mother Earth."

Well Kyoto is a good start that we can build on.

Originally posted by chithappens
Look, for the last time: Kyoto makes pollution worst because even if every developed nation signed (and stayed under limits), all the non developed nations can emit as much as they please.

It is counter productive.

Switching more to nuclear power would be a solid start.

agree 7000%

As long as you put the necessary money into regulation and safety of those plants sure, the only problem being what do you do with the nuclear waste.

Originally posted by Starhawk
It's not a guess and the majority of these people are sure, I've watched many documentaries by scientists who are SURE. The Right Wing just tried to discredit it to pump up the economy even more.

Me too, and I saw documentaries with people who aren't sure... What makes your documentary's more right? The fact that you watched them? The fact that they don't go against your theory? Or just because you want to think that the things I saw were all right winged bullshit even if they had people in it that every sane person would classify as left wing?

It's a theory and unlike most scientific theory's still has a lot of resistance to it. If it's true then yeah that would suck if it's not then you are killing millions of people for nothing. I would like to make sure before I sign the death sentence to millions of people.

The resistance is from the right wing who is worried about inconveniencing big business. And global warming is only one of many components leading to what may now be an inevitable environmental collapse. If anything Kyoto needs to be expanded to cover other threats to the environment.

Originally posted by inimalist
I am all for skeptical analysis of data.

There is a point where a spade must be called a spade, but in light of the fervor of the green movement on this one (ie- turning environmentalism into anti-capitalism) I am very willing to with hold real action until there is much more compelling science.

I wouldn't try to discredit the entire "global warming" thing anymore though. Even global cooling WAS a trend. The planet is in a warming trend, even if today is the last day of it 😛

Agreed...

Global Warming is happening, that is a fact as the Earth mean temperatures have risen. What's debatable is whether humans are causing it or if it's natural (or maybe a combo); until we know exactly for certain, taken a drastic step could be disastrous.

Temperatures have also risen on Mars, did America's overabundant SUV's cause that too?

Since when are we taking the daily temperature on mars?

Originally posted by Starhawk
Since when are we taking the daily temperature on mars?

You do realize that Mars is and has been studied for some time, right?

Regardless though, the "Algorbal Warming" crowd have yet to prove that the temperature rise is definitively causued by human actions; that was the point.