Originally posted by TricksterPriest
👇 You are officially retarded. You obviously can't read and have no comprehension of anything DC. **** this, it's not worth debating with a complete nimrod. My parents told not to pick on mentally disabled people. 😆
He rants like a madman and for the life of me I can't actually tell if he's serious or acting like an idiot to be funny.
Originally posted by olympian
Unless Orion uses the Astro Force and thus his "true nature" he wont win.Average Orion < Team of Avengers.
It's like having Superman in a fight and saying "Well, if Superman uses his ability to punch and fly, he might win. But, if he simply stands there and does nothing, he loses big time!"
Heh.
Sentry is the only person on the team who is in Orion's class.
Originally posted by long pig
Ok, but why wouldn't he use the astro force and his true nature?
I didnt said he cant or wont use his "true nature". He surely doesnt use it often enough to be considered his regular stuff.
Im saying he only wins that way.
Originally posted by long pig
It's like having Superman in a fight and saying "Well, if Superman uses his ability to punch and fly, he might win. But, if he simply stands there and does nothing, he loses big time!"?
That analogy doesnt really work. Orion isent useless without his AF or his true nature powerset.
Originally posted by long pig
Sentry is the only person on the team who is in Orion's class.
Not at his average, but ok.
Originally posted by olympian
Using the AF to blast someone is part of his regular stuff. Im talking about his more exotic stuff like we have seen in Simonson`s run for example.
I was lost there for a minute. You're meaning the whole matter manipulation/space/time things that he did. Like when he cured all those zombies somehow then displayed some insane magneto style powers.
He did a lot of that stuff in the earlier days before becoming a strong man for the JLA, so it's happened enough for it not to be PIS or whatever.
Still, it sucks that they depower everyone in the JLA just to make Superman look better. I mean, they've even had Superman do things faster than the Flash.
God, I hate Superman. Such a penetratee.
Adding Thor helps, but it's still Orion's battle to lose. Except now it's not a horrible curbstomp. It's not that DC is over marvel, it's that certain TIERS in DC are over marvel alot of the time. One of those things, is the speed difference. Another is power. 3rd is energies. Some things, like the AF or the OE, simply have no counterpart in Marvel or any way to stop them short of abstract or skyfather level power.
you put say, Orion against a few heralds, or against Thanos, and then you'll have a fight.
The problem is the tiers are inherently uneven alot. Hence, you have to handicap the DC guys (like taking away the higher speed) or higher up in power. Once you hit skyfather and up, the tiers are around the same level.
Street level, about the same. Meta, same thing. Herald, this is where DC gets a bit of an edge. Marvel has guys that can compete, but you have to go higher up than you would normally think. Example: Wonder Man vs. Superman. Bad match. Wonder Man would get curbstomped. Similar powers, but the degree is vastly difference. Hyperion or Sentry= better fight. Though Supes has an edge due to feats.
In terms of power, Orion is high herald, over Superman. Possibly Thanos level.
The next avengers team match, will be more even. This one was just to prove a point. 😉
Originally posted by long pig
He did a lot of that stuff in the earlier days before becoming a strong man for the JLA, so it's happened enough for it not to be PIS or whatever.Still, it sucks that they depower everyone in the JLA just to make Superman look better. I mean, they've even had Superman do things faster than the Flash.
God, I hate Superman. Such a penetratee.
Ive read Jack Kirby New Gods and up and i dont recall him doing stuff like those, most of the time. Cmon. Darkseid wasent even near as powerful as in Giffen`s "Darkness".
Simonson`s run for the most part showcased it that way because the point was having Orion fullfilling his destiny in manipulating and mastering the powers both he and Darkseid always fougth for.
OT.
Trickster still doesnt get that the one difference is DC showcasing insane feats more often. Both Marvel and DC have them and at a somewhat even level.
So Superman is faster than Thor? So what. Thor is heaps of Superman in power.
So WonderWoman is faster than Hulk? So what? Hulk can get heaps stronger.
Making up abilities like "they use figthing speed like dragonball" takes you nowhere because they dont do that. Same thing for Marvel. With the exeception of speedester types.
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Oh and Orion can destroy Surfer? With his ability to have been oneshotted by him in their previous match-up?
Was that fight canon? It shouldn't be.
Originally posted by long pig
Dude, Orion CAN FLY. Sentry can't destroy his harness. Sentry could try to throw him into the sun but Orion would just throw up a shield and fly back.Did you even know he can fly? Dide you know he can summon the harness at any time?
Do you know anything?
I've read plenty of Orion and New God related material.
You say i rant, i say i debunk irrational claims.
Fact.
You say Orion is head and shoulders above this team physically, when his named physical equal in Kalibak is pretty much the DC version of Ulik who Thor fights fairly often.
Orion isn't over Hercules physically, and definitely not over Hulk.
And his one showing where he beats a Darkseid who planned to lose so as to corrupt the Source is the outlier in their history.
At least Supermans beaten Darkseid three times physically.
It's now approaching a consistent thing between the two.
Lets compare.
You say Orion can solo this team full of top tiers at will.
I see Orions overall average, which takes all his appearances into consideration and draw a different conclusion.
I see how some writers portray his AF, and enough times that its not a fluke imo.
He might be consistently on average able to beat nearly anyone on this team barring Sentry, but that's nowhere near the same as being able to solo this entire team at the same time.
He's simply not portrayed as that dominant over top tiers in that manner.
And i rant.......?
Bruh, you claimed that Lightray is basically Silver Surfer.
Your credibility is in the trash with that one.
Just because i don't believe in this version of Orion that doesn't exist, doesn't make me irrational or unable to comprehend.
And trickster, you're not smart enough to name yourself after Loki.
Change the screenname plz.
Kthxbye@!
Originally posted by UniOmniI can agree with a lot of that... however I think Orion can win a few. But unlike Superman, who I consider Orion up in power with... Orion doesn't mind leaping right in and throwing punches rather than thinking out a fight. And his character itself is what would probably be his downfall a few times to the team as well. He has the raw power to do it, it's his character holding him back. He lives to take and deal punishment. However astroforce attacks could decimate a lot of the team as well, should he actually use it. Orion is definately a character that needs a series again. Get Simonson back on this book pronto.
I've read plenty of Orion and New God related material.You say i rant, i say i debunk irrational claims.
Fact.
You say Orion is head and shoulders above this team physically, when his named physical equal in Kalibak is pretty much the DC version of Ulik who Thor fights fairly often.
Orion isn't over Hercules physically, and definitely not over Hulk.
And his one showing where he beats a Darkseid who planned to lose so as to corrupt the Source is the outlier in their history.
At least Supermans beaten Darkseid three times physically.
It's now approaching a consistent thing between the two.
Lets compare.
You say Orion can solo this team full of top tiers at will.
I see Orions overall average, which takes all his appearances into consideration and draw a different conclusion.
I see how some writers portray his AF, and enough times that its not a fluke imo.
He might be consistently on average able to beat nearly anyone on this team barring Sentry, but that's nowhere near the same as being able to solo this entire team at the same time.
He's simply not portrayed as that dominant over top tiers in that manner.
And i rant.......?
Bruh, you claimed that Lightray is basically Silver Surfer.
Your credibility is in the trash with that one.
Just because i don't believe in this version of Orion that doesn't exist, doesn't make me irrational or unable to comprehend.
And trickster, you're not smart enough to name yourself after Loki.
Change the screenname plz.Kthxbye@!
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
*sigh* Galan, where are those scans of the new gods's true stature and powers? The ones with Orion and Superman that explain the boom tubes.Can you please get them and show this fool why the new gods are beyond the avengers?
Originally posted by TricksterPriestCool,
Behold the true power of the New Gods.
I see you found the scans I posted before. 🙂
Originally posted by UniOmniWow, 😱
Maybe you didn't notice, but Superman was also gigantic compared to the planets as well?Respect the power of Superman too, or just respect the way realities are setup in DC?
Orion's average shows that he'd likely stop, or stalemate the Hulk, much less Hulk and his buddies, along with Sentry.
Team wins 10/10
Do you understand that those scans demonstrate the "true" form of Orion and the New Gods.
Superman only appeared that large because the Boom Tube made it so.
It had nothing to do with Superman's own power, hence it is not a feat for Superman. 😉
Basically, if Orion battled this team in that form, it would be utter spite. 🙂
Originally posted by Galan007
Cool,I see you found the scans I posted before. 🙂 Wow, 😱
Do you understand that those scans demonstrate the "true" form of Orion and the New Gods.
Superman only appeared that large because the Boom Tube made it so.
It had nothing to do with Superman's own power, hence it is not a feat for Superman. 😉
Basically, if Orion battled this team in that form, it would be utter spite. 🙂
Lol.
What you don't seem to realize, is that it's all relative.
The 616 is to the Microverse, what the Fourth World is to the DCU proper.
It's all relative.
Hence the boomtubes enlarging anyone who travels to the Fourth World, or shrinking anyone who leaves it.
It really can't be that hard.
When Genis and Sentry went to the microverse and fought, their battle destroyed worlds.
A Hyperion later came onto the scene, since his world was one of those lost in the fight.
According to you, if that Hyperion fought Aunt May, he should probably lose, because everyone in the 616 would be giant sized.
Respect the POWER OF THE 616 BEINGS!
Not quite.
It's all relative.
If they fought, the entire team would either be the same size as Superman, or Orion would be the same size as Them.
And now you're not even arguing Orion vs the Team.
You're arguing giant sized Orion vs this team.
Laughable.
Originally posted by UniOmniI wasn't arguing for a "giant sized" Orion whatsoever.... 😆
And now you're not even arguing Orion vs the Team.You're arguing giant sized Orion vs this team.
I just forgot the logic of some members...
Marvel > DC,
So we can only use high-end showings from the Marvel characters, while using only low-end showings from DC characters.
Cool... 😎
If you actually read my posts, i said that Orion maybe able to consistently beat everyone here one on one, but that doesn't equal him having a chance against the entire group.
This forum is laughable.
When this thread first kicks off, it's galaxy busting shots of AF, and Superspeed blitzing ftw, but totally disregards the high end of the other team.
And yet only i allow for Highend, and it's for the Marvel side alone?!
GTFOH.
Read my posts.
I clearly reitirate that going by in comics portrayals, Orion would lose to this team.
He can beat likely most of them solo, but not as a group.
I love how whenever someone doesn't see things one way, it's Marvel bias.
At his high end, Orion can likely vape most of the team, even at their high ends.
The ones left would probably be Hulk, Vision, Wonderman and Sentry.
And that's still = to an asswhooping for the New God.
And i wonder why i even debate this now, since you used to say that Prime >= Galactus, when nothing on panel has even made such a claim possible.
Done i am.
