AOTC Anakin VS ROTJ Luke

vader11 Senior Member

1.Sabers only
2.Force(No sabers)
3.All out

darthsith19 Arm-Wrestler

1. Luke bested Vader when using the Dark Side, and without it was able to defend against Vader. Even if Vader wasn't trying his hadest, it's still fairly impressive, and it seemed like Vader was going all-out for most of that fight, as there were several instances where his saber would have killed Luke if Luke hadn't dodged/blocked it. He also bested Boba Fett quite easily, as quickly as Mace took out Jango, which is also quite impressive, though he just temporarily defeated Boba while Mace killed Jango. I say he takes Anakin with just a little difficulty.
2. Hard to say, even in ESB Luke Force Jumped pretty proficiently, and was able to deflect some of the objects that Vader tossed at him off of his back. In ROTJ he jumps some more, and also uses Force Choke on 2 guards at once - if I'm not mistaken, nobody else has been seen to choke multiple people at once before. And Luke seemed to do it pretty casually, too.

What has AOTC Anakin done? Jumpedd off a high cliff into a Tusken Camp and float a metal ball in midair while talking to Padme? Toss a few objects at some Geonosians? I go with Luke, hard to say for sure, though.

3. Luke, just a little trouble.

vader11 Senior Member

Originally posted by darthsith19
1. Luke bested Vader when using the Dark Side, and without it was able to defend against Vader. Even if Vader wasn't trying his hadest, it's still fairly impressive, and it seemed like Vader was going all-out for most of that fight, as there were several instances where his saber would have killed Luke if Luke hadn't dodged/blocked it. He also bested Boba Fett quite easily, as quickly as Mace took out Jango, which is also quite impressive, though he just temporarily defeated Boba while Mace killed Jango. I say he takes Anakin with just a little difficulty.
2. Hard to say, even in ESB Luke Force Jumped pretty proficiently, and was able to deflect some of the objects that Vader tossed at him off of his back. In ROTJ he jumps some more, and also uses Force Choke on 2 guards at once - if I'm not mistaken, nobody else has been seen to choke multiple people at once before. And Luke seemed to do it pretty casually, too.
What has AOTC Anakin done? Jumpedd off a high cliff into a Tusken Camp and float a metal ball in midair while talking to Padme? Toss a few objects at some Geonosians? I go with Luke, hard to say for sure, though.
3. Luke, just a little trouble.

Then do you think Luke can take Maul?

darthsith19 Arm-Wrestler

No, what gave you that idea? Luke destroyed Black Sun HQ with help from Dash, Leia and Chewie. Nobody there was as strong as Mighella was, and a lot of the Black Sun members there escaped.

Meanwhile, Maul gathered the entire Black Sun syndicate in the same place, and took out every last one of them all by himself. Not a single soul survived, and it was hardly any harder for him to do this than it was for Luke to take out a small portion of Black Sun. Luke may have gotten a tiny bit stronger in the half a month or so between then and his confrontation with Vader, but probably hardly progressed at all.

kiddo44 Senior Member

Re: AOTC Anakin VS ROTJ Luke

1.Anakin, no question, he was atleast equal to Jedi Knight Kenobi
2.not sure on this, from what we have seen, Luke
3.Hard to say, Vader in ROTJ especially, never had any intention of really even hurting Luke, but Luke still showed to be powerful with the force and when using the darkside, i guess very slight edge to Luke, but not certain b/c Anakin was clearly a much better swordsman than him.

darthsith19 Arm-Wrestler

1.Anakin, no question, he was atleast equal to Jedi Knight Kenobi

Who is below Luke, and Anakin was at most equal to AOTC Kenobi.

Clearly "a much better swordsman"? Hardly. What do you make ot Luke matching Vader, then?

vader11 Senior Member

Originally posted by darthsith19
No, what gave you that idea?

Just curious😛
I think Asajj may be a match for Luke.

darthsith19 Arm-Wrestler

I'd personally put Asajj above Luke but yes, it would be a close one. I put ROTJ Luke about even with TPM Qui-Gon.

kiddo44 Senior Member

Originally posted by darthsith19
Who is below Luke, and Anakin was at [b]most equal to AOTC Kenobi.
Clearly "a much better swordsman"? Hardly. What do you make ot Luke matching Vader, then? [/B]

Well on Vader, thats easy Vader as i just said in ROTJ never had any inteniton of hurting Luke, and ROTJ Luke after a few years is not above Jedi Knight Kenobi in anything DS.

darthsith19 Arm-Wrestler

Originally posted by kiddo44
Well on Vader, thats easy Vader as i just said in ROTJ never had any inteniton of hurting Luke, and ROTJ Luke after a few years is not above Jedi Knight Kenobi in anything DS.

Never had any intention of hurting Luke? Lol, so throwing his saber at Luke, attacking Luke when he had his defenses down in what could have been a fatal move, Luke having to jump out of reach of his blade, that's not trying to hurt Luke? Lol, that's riduculous, I will admit that he was conflicted but for msot of that duel his strikes were death strikes.

Luke is above AOTC Kenobi as well. Kenobi lost to Dooku in 40 some seconds and Dooku wasn't even trying his hardest. Luke defeated Vader, and even if Vader wasn't trying to hrut Luke he was certainly trying his hardest to defend himself yet he failed to. Most people here, though it sickens me, would put Vader above Dooku. Why, surely you would put OT Vader above AOTC Kenobi with a lightsaber, right?

AOTC Kenobi could never do this:

kiddo44 Senior Member

Why, surely you would put OT Vader above AOTC Kenobi with a lightsaber, right?

yes of course, but if want to act like that fight in ROTJ when Vader, was saying stuff like its "too late for me son" and Luke even saying i know you want hurt me, is like Count Dooku and AOTC Kenobi fighting, ok, thats crazy though.

will admit that he was conflicted but for msot of that duel his strikes were death strikes.

thats ridiculous, Luke even said he was not trying to do this.

AOTC Kenobi could never do this:

if Vader let him he could.

Darth Subjekt The beginning of the end.

so much blatant anti-anakin fanboyism shit in here, its hard to breathe.

sabers: Anakin was somewhat prodigal, and tired Dooku out while being tired himself (fighting in the arena and being electrocuted). He had formal training with a saber from multiple sources and was training with a definite style. Luke swung his around like a baseball bat. Vader wasn't trying to hurt Luke, its obvious. When he threw his saber, even if luke hadn't moved it wouldn't have hit him. Vader could have most likely taken him out at any point, up until Luke had to use the dark side...

Force: C'mon...Anakin was far beyond his peers at this point with a significant less amount of training. He jumped over 100 stories, through traffic, and landed on a moving target. And also, its hard to judge how powerful he was in AOTC cause Lucas wanted to save all that for ROTS. Also, you woud have to prove that the first pig wasn't already knocked out by the time he choked the second, although it could go either way there.
And wow...he jumped...I'd put controlled TK feats above that. Plus when Anakin was with Padme (both times) he wasn't demonstrating great skill...he was almost bored the first time, just moving the ball while talking to her, and the fruit - he's not gonna hurl it at her to knock her out. He wanted to try to be nice...bad examples man. And luke deflected debris? Big deal...Anakin blocked far more blaster bolts in the arena than Luke did in his whole trilogy...Anakin takes this too.

All out: Anakin - he's ahead in both, a combination of both would leave Luke crying like the fairy he his.

And youre ranking Luke pretty high with not a whole lot of evidence...higher than AOTC Kenobi and equal to QGJ??? Please...i need way more proof to buy that.

darthsith19 Arm-Wrestler

yes of course, but if want to act like that fight in ROTJ when Vader, was saying stuff like its "too late for me son" and Luke even saying i know you want hurt me, is like Count Dooku and AOTC Kenobi fighting, ok, thats crazy though.

Lol, Vader never said that during the duel. Luke was using the opposite of Dun Moch to try and turn Vader back to the lightside, even if Vader didn't want to hurt Luke, he proved that he was willing to do so for the Emperor when he attacked Luke while Luke had his defenses down, and again when he threw his saber at Luke. Yet Luke defeated him - neither AOTC Anakin or Kenobi could have.

thats ridiculous, Luke even said he was not trying to do this.

Yeah, cause Luke was trying to turn him back to the Dark Side, so you're going to take his words over what we actually see happen? 🙄

Oh, and Vader even says that he was trying to do this:
"There is no conflict. If you will not be turned to the dark side then you will be destroyed."

if Vader let him he could.

Then provide proof that Vader let Luke cut off his arm and knock him to the ground.

sabers: Anakin was somewhat prodigal, and tired Dooku out while being tired himself (fighting in the arena and being electrocuted). He had formal training with a saber from multiple sources and was training with a definite style. Luke swung his around like a baseball bat. Vader wasn't trying to hurt Luke, its obvious. When he threw his saber, even if luke hadn't moved it wouldn't have hit him. Vader could have most likely taken him out at any point, up until Luke had to use the dark side...

Where does it say that Dooku was aitred, and if he was it was a combination of Anakin and Kenobi that tired him out. Yes, he did have formal training with a lightsaber, and since Luke never did, that we saw (except with Kenobi on the Falcon), he must automatically lose, right? Oh wait, NJO Luke has never had formal saber training either, and he's the best saber wielder in all of Star Wars. Oh my gad, so now we're taking bad choreography to make Luke look bad? Well, if we're going to use bad choreography as proof then why the hell do people put Vader above Dooku? If Vader is truly above Dooku and Luke beat Vader then we should put all bad choreography aside.

Vader wasn't trying to hurt Luke, its obvious. When he threw his saber, even if luke hadn't moved it wouldn't have hit him. Vader could have most likely taken him out at any point, up until Luke had to use the dark side...

No, his saber would have hit Luke's right side, cut into him. Also, when Vader says "You are unwise to lower your defenses!" that's a killing blow, too. And at any rate, even if Vader wasn't trying to hurt Luke (which he was) Vader was still trying his hardest to defend himself, he didn't let Luke kick him down the stairs, he didn't let Luke knock him to the ground and cut off his arm.

Force: C'mon...Anakin was far beyond his peers at this point with a significant less amount of training. He jumped over 100 stories, through traffic, and landed on a moving target.

Pretty impressive, but Luke Force Chokes two people at once, something we haven't even seen Vader do ebfore, and successfully Force Cloaked himself from Vader during the duel in ROTJ, and Vader is much more powerful than AOTC Anakin.

Also, you woud have to prove that the first pig wasn't already knocked out by the time he choked the second, although it could go either way there.

Uh, neither of them were knocked out, you can live for 3 minutes without air, that was a few seconds. He just choked them to scare them so they'd let him pass and no one need be hurt.

And wow...he jumped...I'd put controlled TK feats above that. Plus when Anakin was with Padme (both times) he wasn't demonstrating great skill...he was almost bored the first time, just moving the ball while talking to her, and the fruit - he's not gonna hurl it at her to knock her out.

What does hurling it at her have to do with anything, why'd you put that in there? Deflecting objects that Vader throws at him and Force Jumping quite proficiently is good, and then in ROTJ he would be even stronger than that. Also, in SOTE, he levitates, actually is sitting cross legged in his cell when captured by Bounty Hunters and rises off the ground using the Force.

And luke deflected debris? Big deal...

It is a big deal, seeing as they were coming from Vader, who's leagues ahead of AOTC Anakin with the Force, and that was ESB Luke, ROTJ Luke is even stronger. Didn't Anakin take damage from Asajj Ventress's objects in the CW Cartoon?

Anakin blocked far more blaster bolts in the arena than Luke did in his whole trilogy

Oh wow, blocking blaster bolts, and you think Force Jump and Force Deflect are no big deal, and yet you bring up blocking blaster bolts, something that Luke could do after less than a week of training on the Falcon. Oh my god, Anakin must be uber... 🙄

All out: Anakin - he's ahead in both, a combination of both would leave Luke crying like the fairy he his.

Wow, so 90% of the population here insists on putting OT Vader above Dooku and the same people put ROTJ Luke below AOTC Anakin, even though Luke beat Vader, just because of bad choreography, which, by the way, Vader has, too.

And youre ranking Luke pretty high with not a whole lot of evidence...higher than AOTC Kenobi and equal to QGJ??? Please...i need way more proof to buy that.

Then read up, I've posted lots of it. Seems like you're really downplaying Luke just because of bad choreography and because you don't like him, seeing as you put Vader above Dooku...

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

Originally posted by darthsith19
Uh, neither of them were knocked out, you can live for 3 minutes without air, that was a few seconds. He just choked them to scare them so they'd let him pass and no one need be hurt.

There is a difference between holding your breath, and being choked you know.

darthsith19 Arm-Wrestler

Originally posted by kamikz
There is a difference between holding your breath, and being choked you know.

Okay, what's the difference? Same restrictions, you can't breathe, neither would make you pass out any more quickly than the other.

vader11 Senior Member

Choke can damage you in some ways, unike holding your breathe.

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

Exactly. Try asking someone to hold their breath, see how long they last, then put a fibre wire around their necks and pull, see how long they last then.

darthsith19 Arm-Wrestler

Putting a fibre wire around someone's throat will cut into their neck, maybe even cut it off. Force Choke is used to punish or threaten someone, not do lasting damage to them. it is more like the difference between holding your breath and someone puting their hands around your neck.

vader11 Senior Member

Originally posted by darthsith19
It is more like the difference between holding your breath and someone puting their hands around your neck.

Maybe. But still, they are different.

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

Originally posted by darthsith19
Putting a fibre wire around someone's throat will cut into their neck, maybe even cut it off. Force Choke is used to punish or threaten someone, not do lasting damage to them. it is more like the difference between holding your breath and someone puting their hands around your neck.

They are almost crushing their throats, that DOES do damage. Look at the general that Vader kills in ESB in some seconds, that is proof enough.
Also, in ANH, the General that Vader chokes for a while (while talking to him), holds his neck like it's in pain after he has stopped, not like he's just gasping for air. Force grip/choke doesn't just make you stop breathing.

Oh, and Padme fainted after a couple of seconds. Yeah, she was pregnant, but a pregnant lady can hold her breath for 10 seconds without fainting.

Who wins?