is thier any one in dc as powerful as pretcon beyonder?

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
For what? What will you provide? Better yet...what does my post have to do with omniversal theories? If you have a differing opinion than his, then simply prove him wrong in a thread on panel.

For what? Discussion purposes.

What will you provide? A different opinion.

What does my post have to do with omniverseal theories? I was just giving an example.

If you have a different opinion than his, then simply prove him wrong in a thread on panel.

I'm not out to prove anyone wrong and proving myself right. I provide a more open mind debate. Which I notice you mention in your post.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I'm not out to prove anyone wrong and proving myself right.

That makes 2 of us then.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I provide a more open mind debate. Which I notice you mention in your post.

The MU omniversal hierarchy always appears to be changing. I doubt anyone (including Marvel itself) could ever truly get it right.

Whether people agree with it or not...of course is open to interpretation, but it's respectable work MM has done nonetheless.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
For what? What will you provide? Better yet...what does my post have to do with omniversal theories? If you have a differing opinion than his, then take it up with him and simply prove him wrong in a thread on panel.

No, no,

Wikipedia is right concerning Marvel,

Marvel is wrong concerning Marvel. 😆

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I'm not out to prove anyone wrong and proving myself right.

Of course you are.

You actually tried to dismiss like 10 different Marvel Canon issues I posted solidifying the existence,

of a Marvel Omniverse.

I even posted the scans of Quasar leaving the Multiverse,

and travelling beyond the Multiverse into the greater Marvel Omniverse.

I posted the Official Marvel Handbook Bios of 2006,

where the Omniverse is AGAIN, established as Marvel's own.

Other posters agreed with the evidence that was far beyond any doubt.

Your response was Wiki said this and that ... 😬

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I provide a more open mind debate. Which I notice you mention in your post.

"Open minded?"

That's nice,

but all the logic in the World will not change what Marvel decides to do with it's own company.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Of course you are.

You actually tried to dismiss like 10 different Marvel Canon issues I posted solidifying the existence,

of a Marvel Omniverse.

I even posted the scans of Quasar leaving the Multiverse,

and travelling beyond the Multiverse into the greater Marvel Omniverse.

I posted the Official Marvel Handbook Bios of 2006,

where the Omniverse is AGAIN, established as Marvel's own.

Other posters agreed with the evidence that was far beyond any doubt.

Your response was Wiki said this and that ... 😬

"Open minded?"

That's nice,

but all the logic in the World will not change what Marvel decides to do with it's own company.

Alright, MM...let's go for another round.

Before I proceed let me make it clear...no hard feelings...we're just having a debate...we're cool...let's start.

In past arguments you defend the writers. I, on the other hand simply reject and disagree. Not because of what wiki says...but because of common sense.

Wiki says:

The Omniverse is the collection of every single universe, multiverse, dimension (alternate or pocket) and realm. This includes not only Marvel Comics, but also DC Comics, Image, Dark Horse, Archie, and every universe ever mentioned or seen, including our own world. Everything is in the Omniverse, and there is only one Omniverse.

Omni is the Latin word for "all."

Even if it came from Wiki it sounds a lot more reasonable than what the Marvel Handbook says.

As always, I dispute is the following.

"Marvel Comics cannot claim to have their own Omniverse. If they do, then there is a major flaw. If Marvel claims to have a Omniverse then by all means there are TWO Omniverses. This is a contradiction of the word because it is implying that there are more within ONE. It would be logical to accept that Marvel is just another Multiverse among other Multiverses and all of them are withing a Omniverse."

You said:

"but all the logic in the World will not change what Marvel decides to do with it's own company."

Yes, Marvel can do what they want with their stories. However, that doesn't mean we have to agree with it or accept it for that matter.

Did you saw this thread?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=449584&highlight=Silver+Surfer+forumid%3A95

Do you agree with what happens? It's cannon! It's doesn't happen in another realm. It happen in current Marvel.

Even if you throw away common sense or go for suspension of disbelief. That's just not acceptable. It's wrong...it makes no sense.

But because the writers did it...we have to accept it? No, we don't...it's as simple as that...mistakes happen, we're humans, but to allow an error to be accept it...it's wrong. DC comics have also made their own flaws, I'm right there ready to clobber them. As fans we have to be outspoken and not take everything the writers proclaim.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Alright, MM...let's go for another round.

Before I proceed let me make it clear...no hard feelings...we're just having a debate...we're cool...let's start.

You were a bit rough with your opening statement ... bad mod. 😛

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
In past arguments you defend the writers. I, on the other hand simply reject and disagree. Not because of what wiki says...but because of common sense.

This isn't a question of one or two or all the Writers,

it's a Marvel fact across the Company entire.

The Marvel Omniverse, (all the Universes in Marvel)

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Even if it came from Wiki it sounds a lot more reasonable than what the Marvel Handbook says.

I disagree.

An Omni means all, verse fills in the term, Omniverse.

Why does it have to be "All" including other Companies?

Why can't Marvel have their own "All Universes" which simply means an Omniverse?

There is no dictionary on this planet, that you can present to me that states,

Omni means All, in terms of Comics.

Omni means All period.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
"Marvel Comics cannot claim to have their own Omniverse. If they do, then there is a major flaw.

You're trying to dictate what Marvel can and cannot do, and that isn't gonna fly.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
If Marvel claims to have a Omniverse then by all means there are TWO Omniverses. This is a contradiction of the word because it is implying that there are more within ONE.

I disagree.

There may be Two or a Hundred, that's inconsequential.

Marvel has a collection of Universes, the sum of this collection is the Omniverse,

which means, well ... All Universes in Marvel.

This makes perfect sense, and I can't see what's the problem.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
It would be logical to accept that Marvel is just another Multiverse among other Multiverses and all of them are withing a Omniverse."

The confusion is that you keep associating the term Omniverse,

with All Universes in All Comic book companies, cause Wiki fallaciously claimed.

What chiefarroni made that law?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You said:

"but all the logic in the World will not change what Marvel decides to do with it's own company."

Yes, Marvel can do what they want with their stories. However, that doesn't mean we have to agree with it or accept it for that matter.

Did you saw this thread?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=449584&highlight=Silver+Surfer+forumid%3A95

Do you agree with what happens? It's cannon! It's doesn't happen in another realm. It happen in current Marvel.

Even if you throw away common sense or go for suspension of disbelief. That's just not acceptable. It's wrong...it makes no sense.

This has nothing to do with the Omniverse discussion.

The Marvel Omniverse is not an example of pis by some rogue Writer,

it's the established Marvel Cosmology.

By that logic we should say these claims are PIS too:

Hulk can't fly,

Spiderman sticks to walls,

Silver Surfer has a Silver board,

Invisible Woman can create force fields,

Galactus feeds on Planets,

see where I'm going.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
But because the writers did it...we have to accept it? No, we don't...it's as simple as that...mistakes happen, we're humans, but to allow an error to be accept it...it's wrong. DC comics have also made their own flaws, I'm right there ready to clobber them. As fans we have to be outspoken and not take everything the writers proclaim.

Only this has nothing to do with Pis from Writers like I said.

You're basically trying to say Marvel is flawed

cause they made a character called Eternity that embodies creation, which is Pis.

In other words, there is no argument to dispute the Marvel Omniverse.

The Marvel OMNI-VERSE depicted On Panel, not just claims.

First time the Omniverse was acknowledged by Marvel ON PANEL (1992)

The Watcher and Her, are searching for Quasar who Quantum Jumped out of the 616 Multiverse into the Multiverse that houses the New Universe.

"He is somewhere Beyond the Mutliverse of Dimensions"

"What's Beyond the Multiverse?"

"Beyond the Multiverse Exists an Omniverse, a Continuum of Multiverses"

Watcher goes on to say it has never been proven.

But let's proceed.

"I refuse to believe you (Quasar) are dead, you must be in the Omniverse"

Quasar returns to the 616 Multiverse

"I know atleast it's the right Multiverse"

In the end, the Marvel Omniverse is confirmed ON PANEL

"You went Outside the Multiverse into the greater Omniverse"

shrug

This is Roma's Starlight Citidel,

"from this venue, the Guardian of Reality can view events on EVERY PLANE of the OMNIVERSE"

"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension"

"By breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse CEASES TO EXIST"

Marvel can erase any Universe in their Omniverse:

"a CRYSTAL KEY is turned, a Chain Reaction Commenced"

"A Stricken UNIVERSE is placed FOREVER beyond Suffering"

"A WHOLE UNIVERSE! ... He just WIPED OUT a WHOLE UNIVERSE at the flick of a switch"

"In ALL the OMNI-VERSE there is NOT ONE Universe that I cannot DESTROY at the Touch of a Switch"

Jaspers 616 the Omniversal threat:

"Merlin says, "You cannot fail, this version of Japers is too powerful, too dangerous"

They had to destroy the entire 238 Universe in order to kill 238 Jaspers,

but 616 Jaspers is "NOT so easily contained, and if he's not stopped, the OMNI-VERSE will fall into Chaos, and a NEW GOD shall play dice with Matter"

Roma with the Omniverse under her care:

"My hand guides the Omni-verse Now, Unlike my Father, I have no desire to shape the destiny of men"

This is how the Omniverse is described according to the OHOTMU v5 (2006)

"the REALMS with a Multiverse"

"Within the Omniverse , collections of associated REALMS from different

Multiverses are referred to as Megaverses"

I knew it...you were going to throw in a bunch of scans which proves my earlier comment right. You accept what the writers tell you.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I disagree.

An Omni means all, verse fills in the term, Omniverse.

Why does it have to be "All" including other Companies?

Why can't Marvel have their own "All Universes" which simply means an Omniverse?

There is no dictionary on this planet, that you can present to me that states,

Omni means All, in terms of Comics.

Omni means All period.

Right there! In red letters, it's the core of the argument.

So why do you say that Marvel have a Omniverse when every other comic book company respective multiverses did NOT came out of the MU?

At the same time you just disqualified your own argument when you said that there is no dictionary for the word. So, if there is no such word, why is Marvel using a word they DIDN'T invent?

Marvel can have all the universes they want. It should be call "Multiverse". It makes more sense if they had use the right word. In this case they use "Omni" which isn't proper.

Originally posted by Mr Master

You're trying to dictate what Marvel can and cannot do, and that isn't gonna fly.

I disagree.

There may be Two or a Hundred, that's inconsequential.

Marvel has a collection of Universes, the sum of this collection is the Omniverse,

which means, well ... All Universes in Marvel.

Correction! I'm not dictating what Marvel should do. I happen to disagree with what they're saying. In order for me to dictate I would have to be in charge of the company. Which I'm not...that still doesn't mean I can't generate my own opinion.

This makes perfect sense, and I can't see what's the problem.

Originally posted by Mr Master

The confusion is that you keep associating the term Omniverse,

with All Universes in All Comic book companies, cause Wiki fallaciously claimed.

What chiefarroni made that law?

Uh, okay, so a word that isn't in dictionary is been use fallaciously by Wiki but not Marvel? Come on! you just contradict yourself.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This has nothing to do with the Omniverse discussion.

The Marvel Omniverse is not an example of pis by some rogue Writer,

it's the established Marvel Cosmology.

By that logic we should say these claims are PIS too:

Hulk can't fly,

Spiderman sticks to walls,

Silver Surfer has a Silver board,

Invisible Woman can create force fields,

Galactus feeds on Planets,

see where I'm going.

It has everything to do with the discussion. The link is further proof that an erroneous mistake CAN happen and the writers will play along. We the fans have to let them something is just not making sense.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I knew it...you were going to throw in a bunch of scans which proves my earlier comment right. You accept what the writers tell you.

We're going circles now.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Right there! In red letters, it's the core of the argument.

So why do you say that Marvel have a Omniverse when every other comic book company respective multiverses did NOT came out of the MU?

?

I think you misunderstood what I said,

again,

There is no dictionary on this planet, that you can present to me that states Omni means All, in terms of Comics.

I then said,

Omni means All period, it's not restricted to Comics is what I meant.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
At the same time you just disqualified your own argument when you said that there is no dictionary for the word. So, if there is no such word, why is Marvel using a word they DIDN'T invent?

?

Omni means All

Verse in the context we're using stands for an area of Space.

In Marvel we have,

Universe = a single Reality

Multiverse = a multitude of RealitieS/UniverseS

Megaverse = a multitude of MultiverseS

Omniverse = all of the above in one.

Simple, effective, no?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Marvel can have all the universes they want. It should be call "Multiverse". It makes more sense if they had use the right word. In this case they use "Omni" which isn't proper.

As you wish.

You're not going to change my mind, and evidently Marvel has made up their mind as well.

This is going no where.

If you have On Panel Proof or a Bio (from Marvel) that can even remotely help your case,

let me know.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Correction! I'm not dictating what Marvel should do. I happen to disagree with what they're saying. In order for me to dictate I would have to be in charge of the company. Which I'm not...that still doesn't mean I can't generate my own opinion.

True,

you can generate any opinion you wish,

I rather just stick to the On Panel and Bio facts Marvel has established since 92'

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
This makes perfect sense, and I can't see what's the problem.

😬

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Uh, okay, so a word that isn't in dictionary is been use fallaciously by Wiki but not Marvel? Come on! you just contradict yourself.

What's more ridiculous?

Wiki speaking for all the Comic book companies?

Or Marvel speaking for itself?

Again,

Omni means All

if you add verse to that, you get Omniverse,

which means All Universes.

Which means All the UniverseS in Marvel equals an Omniverse.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
It has everything to do with the discussion. The link is further proof that an erroneous mistake CAN happen and the writers will play along. We the fans have to let them something is just not making sense.

A particular Writer in a specific single story creating a PIS moment,

is quite different than the entire Marvel company agreeing on something.

Again,

if you can find me just ONE piece of evidence On Panel or in a Bio,

that disputes my claims, Marvel's Bios and the On Panel depictions of the Omniverse,

I'll concede.

Did any of those scans or the bio state that the omniverse was just Marvels? Simply acknowledging the fact that an omniverse exists in a Marvel comic doesnt mean that the omniverse is something specific to Marvel.

So what if Marvel characters have omniversal roles, or wield devices that can destroy portions of the omniverse. Dc characters such as the Presence and others have been said to have omniversal rules as well. Doesnt mean that theres more than one omniverse.

On top of that its canon that DC and Marvel exist within the same omniverse and that the DC characters just come from another multiverse. The point was made in the JLA Vs Avengers title. The two multiverses acknowledge being neighbours.

There is something outside the multiverse and that is the greater omniverse, where has it been established across continuity that theres something beyond the omniverse?

Originally posted by Mr Master

if you can find me just ONE piece of evidence On Panel or in a Bio,

that disputes my claims, Marvel's Bios and the On Panel depictions of the Omniverse,

I'll concede.

All of your evidence just amounts to what we already know....there is an omniverse. None of it states that the omniverse is specific to Marvel. You have ASSUMED that based on the fact that there are Marvel characters with omniversal roles. Thats not good enough. Show me where it is stated that Marvel has its own omniverse as do all the other labels. Dc characters also have omniversal roles. That too doesnt equate to DC having its own specific omniverse. The fact that its canon on both sides that each companies characters exist in multiverses next to each other shuts down your argument just like that.

Pulsars bio makes reference to the Green lantern she battled in the crossover:

The comic itself made references to their realities being neighbouring.

Here Krona is travelling around the multiverses destroying realities from each:

The Marvel reality:

The Dc reality:

"Another universe occupying the same space but a different vibratory plane of reality"

Different multiverses, same omniverse.

There is a great lesson to be learned in this thread,i am glad there are some good debaters still on the site,Thanks you G.S and also Wrathful Dwarf

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind

"Grandiose delusional" is not what I would call the guy. A well informed debater with an open mind is more like it.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Yeah right, try the Omniverse theory on it and come see me afterwards....

😎

Originally posted by starlock
There is a great lesson to be learned in this thread,i am glad there are some good debaters still on the site,Thanks you G.S and also Wrathful Dwarf

Thank you, im flattered.

Its good to know there are still debators out there who actually take the time out to analyse the posted arguments and draw their own conclusions as opposed to blindly swallowing what someone tells you he thinks is going on in a barrage of often out of context scans. 😄

Imo.

Presence = TOAA
Great Darkness/Ultimate Light = Beyonder/Molecule man (PR)
Source/Voice/Logos = Living Tribunal

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The comic itself made references to their realities being neighbouring.

Here Krona is travelling around the multiverses destroying realities from each:

The Marvel reality:

The Dc reality:

"Another universe occupying the same space but a different vibratory plane of reality"

Different multiverses, same omniverse.