Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I am debating in pure canon,
No you're not. You're debating "movies only" which isn't even close to the full and proper Star Wars Canon.
This isn't the "movie only" forum. Windu doesn't stand a chance against Yoda in Canon. Everyone on this forum "The Star Wars Forum" knows this.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
well disagree then, it's not a big deal.
It's not about disagreeing. I'm explaining to you that there's more to Star Wars Canon than just the movies. Even when discussing the movies, over here we use Movie Commentaries and Novelizations which makes discussions on this forum very different to discussions on the Movie versus forum.
Originally posted by Darth ThorThat isn't true at all saying Windu can't take on Yoda. It's preposterous and the movie fights actually say otherwise. Windu bests Yoda despite him being more powerful.
No you're not. You're debating "movies only" which isn't even close to the full and proper Star Wars Canon.This isn't the "movie only" forum. Windu doesn't stand a chance against Yoda in Canon. Everyone on this forum "The Star Wars Forum" knows this.
Originally posted by quanchi112
That was done infer his own abilities.Abc logic. Dooku is also slower.
Dooku fled while Windu bested the guy who bested Yoda.
I'm not saying it's not part of his abilities. That's why it's called a boost. However this boost depends on certain factors, and those certain factors aren't met my Dooku.
So I just proved Abc logic can work, good to know. Dooku is faster than Obi wan and about same level of speed as Mace.
Abc logic fail. Windu had a boost hat no one else did and that he would never get again. Dooku could go as long as he did without a boost while Windu needed one.
Yoda would take Windu 9-10/10 times. Evn and amped Dooku couldn't beat Yoda.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2Dooku is a dark sider. Windu was fine against peers of Palaptine aka Talzin.
I'm not saying it's not part of his abilities. That's why it's called a boost. However this boost depends on certain factors, and those certain factors aren't met my Dooku.So I just proved Abc logic can work, good to know. Dooku is faster than Obi wan and about same level of speed as Mace.
Abc logic fail. Windu had a boost hat no one else did and that he would never get again. Dooku could go as long as he did without a boost while Windu needed one.
Yoda would take Windu 9-10/10 times. Evn and amped Dooku couldn't beat Yoda.
No, Dooku isn't faster just more skilled.
Windu has unique abilities and based on your logic anger boosts shouldn't count either.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Dooku is a dark sider. Windu was fine against peers of Palaptine aka Talzin.No, Dooku isn't faster just more skilled.
Windu has unique abilities and based on your logic anger boosts shouldn't count either.
So was Ventress and Sora Bulq but it didn't work out did it. Talzin was a pure in the force not the blade.
Prove that. Prove Dooku is slow. The choreography of the film doesn't count since its your interpretation which isn't evidence. I could easily retort that Dooku is fast based on the films.
I'm not saying it doesn't count, I'm saying based on facts it doesn't happen since the factors that made it up, won't be to the same here. Dooku is much more controlled, much more calculating and has actually beaten a Vaapad user.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2Talzin was not defeated by Palpatine. Windu did defeat Palpatine.
So was Ventress and Sora Bulq but it didn't work out did it. Talzin was a pure in the force not the blade.Prove that. Prove Dooku is slow. The choreography of the film doesn't count since its your interpretation which isn't evidence. I could easily retort that Dooku is fast based on the films.
I'm not saying it doesn't count, I'm saying based on facts it doesn't happen since the factors that made it up, won't be to the same here. Dooku is much more controlled, much more calculating and has actually beaten a Vaapad user.
The choreography of the film is factual information you want to ignore.
Dooku still uses emotion and based in your own stance Windu would feed off it not that it would matter since he's always proven himself to be at the top of the mountain.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Talzin was not defeated by Palpatine. Windu did defeat Palpatine.The choreography of the film is factual information you want to ignore.
Dooku still uses emotion and based in your own stance Windu would feed off it not that it would matter since he's always proven himself to be at the top of the mountain.
Talzin was on her own planet whcih amps her more than anyone else so she would be able to compete. Allegedly meaning he appeared to win. Any other day Sidious takes this.
Ok use it. I dare you and it will be over in two post. That's a promise.
So? Even Jedi use emotions. Again I refer you to other battles involving Windu with Bulq and Ventress. Dooku again is calm, collected, and doesn't let his emotions get the better of him. Cold and detached. This is seen by how when he has to let go of Ventress, he does it, and he never tries to get her back, trying to kill her and being happy when he finally does. So I retain the notion that Windu Vaapad isn't going to work that well agaisnt Dooku.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2In the story she met up with Palpatine she was described as being weakened. Based on ?
Talzin was on her own planet whcih amps her more than anyone else so she would be able to compete. Allegedly meaning he appeared to win. Any other day Sidious takes this.Ok use it. I dare you and it will be over in two post. That's a promise.
So? Even Jedi use emotions. Again I refer you to other battles involving Windu with Bulq and Ventress. Dooku again is calm, collected, and doesn't let his emotions get the better of him. Cold and detached. This is seen by how when he has to let go of Ventress, he does it, and he never tries to get her back, trying to kill her and being happy when he finally does. So I retain the notion that Windu Vaapad isn't going to work that well agaisnt Dooku.
You already said it doesn't count proving you aren't open for debate or evidence.
Windu didn't need that abilit against Jango or Talzin so again you aren't making a point and are excusing Palpatine's embarrassing loss to Windu.
Dooku, barely. Or split. He's nearly emotionless figher, his physicality is underrated. He's more skilled Force user then Windu, and equally skilled duelist.
Windu is also a great fighter, perhaps Dooku's superiority in The force wont be even a facotr.
But Windu is also overated by many. He has nothing which would place him on Yoda's and Sidious' level besides Gillard's statement about his level. But Anakin is also stated to be 9, and Obi-Wan is 8. Dooku is easily 8,5 at least. Or also 9, considering how easily he was dealing with both level 8 fighters (Anakin is 8 at the beggining of that fight) + he has a hype that places him on Windu's level.
Hard to tell, how good Talzin was when she was in Dooku's body. If she was at least as skilled as in her own body, then it might be a suggestion that Dooku iis clear superior to Talzin in sabers (as Sidious pointed, she had nothing of his skill). Windu fought her equally when she was in her weakened state.
Dooku also did better against Grievous, Bulq, Ventress. AotC novel also suggest, that Jango - if no his problems with jetpack - would give Windu a good fight.
Originally posted by McPConfirmed here by Disney that Windu bested Sidious and Yoda failed to do it. That's undeniable.
Dooku, barely. Or split. He's nearly emotionless figher, his physicality is underrated. He's more skilled Force user then Windu, and equally skilled duelist.
Windu is also a great fighter, perhaps Dooku's superiority in The force wont be even a facotr.
But Windu is also overated by many. He has nothing which would place him on Yoda's and Sidious' level besides Gillard's statement about his level. But Anakin is also stated to be 9, and Obi-Wan is 8. Dooku is easily 8,5 at least. Or also 9, considering how easily he was dealing with both level 8 fighters (Anakin is 8 at the beggining of that fight) + he has a hype that places him on Windu's level.Hard to tell, how good Talzin was when she was in Dooku's body. If she was at least as skilled as in her own body, then it might be a suggestion that Dooku iis clear superior to Talzin in sabers (as Sidious pointed, she had nothing of his skill). Windu fought her equally when she was in her weakened state.
Dooku also did better against Grievous, Bulq, Ventress. AotC novel also suggest, that Jango - if no his problems with jetpack - would give Windu a good fight.
Originally posted by quanchi112
In the story she met up with Palpatine she was described as being weakened. Based on ?You already said it doesn't count proving you aren't open for debate or evidence.
Windu didn't need that abilit against Jango or Talzin so again you aren't making a point and are excusing Palpatine's embarrassing loss to Windu.
False. Son of Dathomir never says she was weakened. E two even with mace having that huge boost, they were equals. The battle would have came down to force powers and that's where Sidious takes the cake.
Oh now you run like the little onward you are.
Well Jango is irrelevant since Jango didn't have a blade or the force, and Talzin was pretty much swinging IIRC. That really would prove Sidious is better since he needed a boost agaisnt a more powerful opponent. Thanks for helping me to prove my point. Who got thrown out the window?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Confirmed here by Disney that Windu bested Sidious and Yoda failed to do it. That's undeniable.
McP this is what I mean by Quan ignoring the other sides evidence since it's also said mace Appeared to win. I wonder how Quan skipped that part.
http://www.starwars.com/news/the-starwars-com-10-best-fights
"The ending continues to be debated; Windu seemingly has Sidious beaten, unarmed and cowering. But was this all planned to get Anakin to come to his defense? Either way, it doesn’t end well for Mace."
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2The site clearly states he defeated Sidious in combat. Yoda was unable to do so. That's explaining the scene. Windu won until Anakin got involved.
McP this is what I mean by Quan ignoring the other sides evidence since it's also said mace Appeared to win. I wonder how Quan skipped that part.