Storm...Phoenix Level? NOPE.

Originally posted by Disappear
i'll ask again, what has storm done to keep the phoenix in check? ever. at any point in time.

What are you 3?

You're thinking about who can bitchslap who other the hardest. It's about dynamics of friendship/relationships as well as comparable power and destructive potential.

Storm has shown the ability to wield the primal forces of the Universe like nobodies business.

It just so happends that these two women are what???? FRIENDS 😱 🙄

It's an interesting dynamic really if you can get your head out of your ass. 😆

"Originally posted by Chris Claremont in Storm Part II
What creates a bond between Storm and (my conception of) Jean -- and a potential abyss between her and Charles Xavier as he's currently being portrayed -- is the fact that both these women came to face, in the most brutal and unforgiving terms, the consequences of power without restraint, without responsibility. Unchecked, they can cause untold harm, even if they start with the best of intentions. (Kind of like being the sole super-power in the world. At least, when there were two with the capability and will to annihilate all life on earth, they tended to keep one another honest and in balance. Winning global peace is apparently much easier than sustaining it.) Be interesting to see how things develop in the X-community from here on."

you made the claim that storm is as powerful as jean grey. you made the claim that storm can keep jean in check. you haven't proven either. if storm was enough to keep jean in check, why did it take the combined minds of all x-men past and present to show jean her human side in endsong? why not just storm?

your points are moot, your arguments are non-linear and your sources are non-canon. move on, kid. you're wasting your time.

Originally posted by Disappear
you made the claim that storm is as powerful as jean grey. you made the claim that storm can keep jean in check. you haven't proven either. if storm was enough to keep jean in check, why did it take the combined minds of all x-men past and present to show jean her human side in endsong? why not just storm?

your points are moot, your arguments are non-linear and your sources are non-canon. move on, kid. you're wasting your time.

🙄

You ignore everything per the creator of the character.

It is YOU who should get the **** outta here. 😆

I care about the creator and his vision.

He says they're equal, then they'e equal. Simple as that.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
🙄

You ignore everything per the creator of the character.

It is YOU who should get the **** outta here. 😆

I care about the creator and his vision.

He says they're equal, then they'e equal. Simple as that.

😆 It's nice that you can admit when you have literally no argument left.

you obviously don't care about the characters, then. because they're more than what one man thinks of them; they're the combined outcome of years of writers making years of stories about them.

again i'll point out that you've not been able to prove anything you say with a canon source. again i'll point out that claremont is not the be-all-end-all of storm, phoenix or marvel canon. and again i'll laugh quietly to myself as i post this, thinking of what nonsense things you'll try to push as proof next.

Originally posted by Disappear
you obviously don't care about the characters, then. because they're more than what one man thinks of them; they're the combined outcome of years of writers making years of stories about them.

again i'll point out that you've not been able to prove anything you say with a canon source. again i'll point out that claremont is not the be-all-end-all of storm, phoenix or marvel canon. and again i'll laugh quietly to myself as i post this, thinking of what nonsense things you'll try to push as proof next.

Jean-Phoenix is his creation. 😎

The writers wouldn't have anyhting without that.

Phoenix has limits in every incarnation.

I respect the creator's original vision. Everything after that is a mere interpretation of said vision, hit or miss.

As of now, Storm and Jean-Phoenix are approx =

that's the most exclusive view of comics i've ever seen. not exclusive in the sense that it's unique, but in the sense that you intentionally exclude everything that disproves your point.

i've decided to take the same approach. madrox is now the most powerful mutant in the world. i have it from a canon source written by peter david himself [the man universally reknowned for his redefinition of the original x-factor cast and viewed far and wide as the premier authority on madrox himself.] thus, multiple man is more powerful than storm. my argument wins.

Originally posted by Disappear
that's the most exclusive view of comics i've ever seen. not exclusive in the sense that it's unique, but in the sense that you intentionally exclude everything that disproves your point.

i've decided to take the same approach. madrox is now the most powerful mutant in the world. i have it from a canon source written by peter david himself [the man universally reknowned for his redefinition of the original x-factor cast and viewed far and wide as the premier authority on madrox himself.] thus, multiple man is more powerful than storm. my argument wins.

Suite yourself.

Jean-Phoenix and Ororo are equals.

Phoenix in any and every incarnation was one step down from the almighty when Claremont made his claim, and she had/has limitations as I have proven.

Personally I like Storm because there's a growth there. Jean was given so much power trying to compete with Storm until she's just a parody.

Storm on the other hand has struggles and limitations, yet just below the surface, can summon an entire Galaxy's worth of power with ease and transcend her being to become power itself.

Both wielding the primal forces of the universe, when unchecked they can...... And as it turns out, they're friends........... sisters almost 😱

Two goddesses who can transcend creation.

The internal struggles, the dynamics....

This man can write some good shit, man.

how exactly does the power to wipe out civilizations, eat stars and transcend life itself on a whim become categorized as "competing with storm" exactly? just wondering.

Phoenix is second to the creator; Multiple Man creates multiples of himself. I think that's the reference Claremont was trying to make in the the Dark Phoenix saga. He truly was a visionary.

If someone was to actually read those scans. They'd realize that it refers to ALL mutants having the capacity to being able to transcend their very being.

Squirrel Girl is the creators creator in fur.

that point, contrasted against the perception of omega mutants, was brought up in the storm respect thread. not squirrel girl, though

Originally posted by Disappear
that point, contrasted against the perception of omega mutants, was brought up in the storm respect thread. not squirrel girl, though

But the key thing being "perception" seeing how Horsemen Sunfire, Shadow King and Malice all have transcended their very beings and they aren't Omegas. There's absolutely no criteria for being called an Omega apart from it being stated on panel.
So the line "All of us hold within ourselves the capacity to transcend our very being" and "But mutants possess the means to actually achieve that goal" would not only be limited to Omega Level Mutants.

Originally posted by Redatom65
😆 ight DC, sorry for trolling your thread, but V you're still a dick bra ermmhappy

Takes one to know one.

And OMGosh? I'm a dick haermm I thought I was Wyatt mother-****ing Earp.

He rocks, I mean I rock. One of the two.

Originally posted by Redatom65
😆 ight DC, sorry for trolling your thread, but V you're still a dick bra ermmhappy

I have to stop you there Red, for the use of the words "dick" and "bra" to insinuate that there is such a thing as a bra for your penis.

How woud that even work? 😕

Originally posted by Mr Master
By word of mouth, (hyperbole) in X-Men titles exclusively.

Phoenix is no "Big Bang" ...

theoretically Phoenix is the "Spark" that ignites the Big Bang,

theoretically because it has never occured on panel.

In fact Phoenix has never Remade a Universe, or Created a Universe,

Phoenix has never even Destroyed the 616 Reality.

the Force did destroy an Alternate Reality in a What If ... ermm ... Once.

Never happened.

Phoenix manipulated the Alternate Future of Reality 15104, nothing more:

"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104"

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 Updates - Mkraan Crystal bio)

PS. Phoenix is far beyond Storm though.

All the points you dispute have been handled by myself in every thread we've debated the matter on. On top of that my respect thread has enough scans stating the points you would like to dispute with mere opinion. Stop running around trying to demean the Phoenix at its every mention every time im away for a few days. 😬

i see dead people, apparently.

also, existing without a flesh-and-blood body is not technically the same thing as "transcending." as you pointed out, a good handful of characters have "energy" bodies [horseman sunfire actually still had flesh and bone when he broke away from apocalypse] without being confirmed omegas. transcending could mean something more metaphysical, or on a grander scale, or whatever. all we know is that it doesnt explicitly mean existing outside of a human body, and storm's context clearly establishes that she's not talking about the same transcending often applied to omega level mutants.

Originally posted by Disappear
also, existing without a flesh-and-blood body is not technically the same thing as "transcending." as you pointed out, a good handful of characters have "energy" bodies [horseman sunfire actually still had flesh and bone when he broke away from apocalypse] without being confirmed omegas. transcending could mean something more metaphysical, or on a grander scale, or whatever.

It could but, if you mean transcending in terms of the PF, then it's also been done by a non-Omega. Phoebe was able to act as a host for it. As for Sunfire, in AoA he burnt away his flesh and became living flame in a containment suit. I just assumed he did the same in 616 but was able to reconstitute himself. I guess not.
Whatever it is Omeganess has yet to be explained.

storm's context clearly establishes that she's not talking about the same transcending often applied to omega level mutants.

Well if we agree on this then I guess we both agree.

it was never fully explained how far sunfire's self-burning had faded him out in the age of apocalypse. when rogue touched him to calm him down, he still had a scarred and charred face, iirc. the suit may have been mostly a measure to keep himself from burning to death, for all we know.

and i agree about omegas. all we know as a canon explanation is that all omegas have an unlimited potential for growth in their mutation, and that power levels really don't affect classification. aside from that, as you said, we can only really rely on on-panel clarification as to whether one mutant is or is not omega; and previous hyperboles do not automatically qualify anyone.

Yep, still.......

😎