Originally posted by King Kandy
Good. Because he can beat Greensuit Phoenix. Guess that kinda blows that theory that her and DP are equal, huh?
Nope, that Phoenix was just as much "second to the creator" as DP is which makes it even MORE PIS.
Claremont made his statement 2 years AFTER the Phoenix saga and on the precipice of Dark Phoenix in 1980.
Believe what you want.
Why would he even make a new thread about this?? 🙄
I musta really pissed him off shocklaugh
Originally posted by Redatom65
dude i explained myself enough, if you're going to be a dick, and go off upon plenty of double standards, then I really don't care. I have made my point, and clearly you just want to be a dick and keep it going, well dear sir, I would much rather ignore your boarish statements, then continue this battle of "wits"
This isn't a "battle"
I'm just telling you what everybody else seems to have realised.
I wasn't the one who started being a dick in the first place, but if it takes me coming into the thread to tell you you're a dick (When plenty of other people realised, yet someone you manage to think you're contributing somehow), thusforth acting like a dick myself, then I will do it.
Wanker
Originally posted by 2damnloud
Win what?? shocklaughWhat the **** are you winning??
Your premise is ****ed. You're putting words in the man's mouth. He didn't say shit about "with limits". He said approx. EQUAL. That's it, end of.
You tried your damndest to make a differentiation between the two Phoenixes, when CC made that statement in 1979 right in btween "Green Suite"(some shit you made in your false premise) and Dark Phoenix. He had both in mind yet he STILL made the comparison.
DP and Green suite are two sides of the SAME coin.
I already proved the DP had limits as well.
He said they're equal, nothing you can say can change that.
Come back when you have another premise for your argument because this "one is different than the other" is bullshit. Notwithstanding the fact that he made the statement on the verge of the DP saga AFTER the Green suite Phoenix.
All this also notwithstanding that it was second to the creator period, no matter what version.
Still wrong.
I am not putting any sort of words in his mouth. He clearly stated that Phoenix could not hold his power for long.
“But she can't hold it for long.”
Don't know how that could be any more clear.
He also wrote Green Suit Phoenix have limits in CANON COMICS, and clearly showed that that Green Suit Phoenix is weaker then Dark Phoenix, as at soon as DP turned into GSP, she got weaker.
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4929/phoenixlimits4lu4.jpg
Just to make sure that you haven't missed all the dozens of times he wrote GSP to have limits...these are just from year 1979.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7271/phoenixlimits001ah2.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/723/phoenixlimits01dy3.jpg
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8968/phoenixlimits1cn9.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/909/phoenixlimits002qd9.jpg
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1415/phoenixlimits02te4.jpg
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6489/phoenixlimits2al2.jpg
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4458/phoenixlimits3tj4.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4929/phoenixlimits4lu4.jpg
And Phoenix is equal to creator. Green Suit Phoenix, even though she has higher power then Storm, can't hold that power for long because of the limits placed upon her.
Claremont specifically talked about Phoenix, not Dark Phoenix or any other incarnation. The year was 1979, NOT DURING DARK PHOENIX and he was talking about present tense, so he was talking about the Phoenix incarnation which existed during that time, which was GSP, who had limits, which caused her power to wane if she used them too much.
“But she can't hold it for long.” -----READ AND UNDERSTAND IT.
That was the only reason why he compared her to Phoenix. Though Jean had higher power:
”Jean can maintain a higher burst...she can peak higher than Storm”-----READ AND UNDERSTAND THIS ONE TOO.
Which is the only reason she can equal Phoenix, because this limit placed upon her makes it so that Storm can catch up to her.
And you really need to cut those speculations of Claremont's future predictions. Cry all you want, he wasn't talking about future, he didn't mention Dark Phoenix, it was not era where there was any other incarnation, and he might have had Dark Phoenix in his mind but he wasn't referring to Dark Phoenix, he was referring to Phoenix, who had limits in her power. These are all facts, which you can't deny.
Full Phoenix Force doesn't have this problem. Storm is only equal to the version Claremont was talking about - who had limits, as he clearly mentioned in the interview (she can't hold her power for long) and clearly showed in comic (her power ran out at least dozen times).
Just as you know, Dark Phoenix isn't full Phoenix either, since Jean was constantly fighting with that persona and limiting it's powes too. Not to mention Xavier's psychic blocks. But Dark Phoenix is of course, more powerful then GSP.
--------------------------
Let's present it in laymans terms. There are two guys. One with large axe, one with small one. The guy with large axe wields it with one hand, and though he can cause way more damage then the guy with small axe in ONE BLOW, he needs to rest his hands and the small axe guy can catch up with him. This makes the damage they cause to the tree equal.
Then the large axe guy starts wielding it with two hands, and he doesn't need to rest anymore. This puts him above the small axe guy in terms of damage they cause to the tree.
Another comparision.
Storm: 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 = 100.
Phoenix 100 = 100.
They can cause equal damage, because Phoenix can only use her higher power, which is 100 in this example, for short amount of time. Storm can maintain her power, which is 20, for longer amount of time, so they are matched up in the terms of raw power, BECAUSE PHOENIX IS LIMITED IN HER USAGE OF POWER.
Full Phoenix doesn't have this disability.
-----------------
Facts:
Claremont was talking about GSP in his interview. This is a fact, and you can't deny it.
GSP was limited in her power. This is a fact too, as Claremont wrote it in comics MANY TIMES, which I have already showed you. Multiple times.
Claremont specifically mentioned this limit in the interview - as she can't hold her full power for long - and said that GSP has higher level of power then Storm - she can peak higher. But Storm can maintain her lower level of power longer then GSP can maintain her higher level, which enables her to catch up with her.
Full Phoenix has no limitations in how she can use her power, and is thus much stronger then GSP. A fact, as proven by the feats of stronger Phoenix incarnations, which absolutely DWARF GSP's (and Dark Phoenix's too, but doesn't matter because this was not the version Claremont was talking about) feats. Claremont was SPECIFICALLY REFERRING TO GSP.
NOTHING in comics OR that interview proves that Storm is equal to the Phoenix Force. She can only equal Phoenix whose power usage is limited - WHICH CLAREMONT CLEARLY MENTIONS. Here again, the interview.
"RB: Storm next...
Chris Claremont: Storm is basically what she is...a goddess, a three-dimensional goddess, if such a thing is possible.
RB: When the new X-Men first appeared Storm was probably the most powerful and dramatic member. Do you feel now that she's been slightly upstaged by Phoenix?
Chris Claremont: No. In equal terms of raw power, they're approximately equal.
Jean can maintain a higher burst...she can peak higher than Storm but she can't hold it for long. The thing with Storm is that all we've done till now is show her throwing lightning bolts and creating hurricanes, but she can do far more. Phoenix is more visual - the 'bird effect' is more spectacular. So the gist of it is that they complement each other. They do different things in different ways."
Only version who Storm complements, is equal to, and can match in raw power, is the GSP version, which Claremont is referring to, states that she has limits, and states that even the GSP can peak higher then Storm.
Facts are facts, I have them plenty, you have nothing. I have already won, this is your pathetic last stand.
I've explained these things multiple times, and not just in this post alone. These are things a kid could understand. You apparently can't. Here again, in nutshell, my argument that comics and the interview prove.
Storm can't equal any other Phoenix version then the one who is limited in how long she can use her power.
Simple as that.
Originally posted by 2damnloudReally? Chris Claremont, the most important writer in Storms comic career certainly seems to think that he can defeat Storm and has indeed written him to do so, easily if I may add, and multiple times to boot. Maybe you should send him an e-mail and tell him that he is wrong? 😱
Magneto can't beat DP or Storm without some kind of PIS to make him a credible villain.
Can't argue with "Canon", although, when it comes to Storm alot of people like to pick and choose what qualifies as "canon" exactly. (If you're "called" an Omega, in canon, then you qualify. If someone, in "canon", compares you to the PHOENIX well.............?)
I just want to see everybody's reaction when Hudlin makes her the 3-d Goddess she was always intended to be.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
(And to Mr.Master, this thread was not really dedicated to discussion about Phoenix's powerlevel. You've obviously looked at it more so I am not debating it with you. This was only put to show that Storm isn't as powerful as the Phoenix Force - and I think you agree with that at the least?)
I noticed.
I just wanted to make clarifications concerning that feat.
Bottomline though:
Originally posted by Mr Master
PS. Phoenix is far beyond Storm though.
😄
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Waste my time?I'm having a riot in here! 😱
This is the funniest point of debating ever. When the other side has been drained out of all their evidence and points and are still trying to make their last stance, fighting like rabid retard monkeys against an ARMY, slowly realizing that there is nobody who supports their utterly ridicolous stance and they have no other choice then to post the same bullshit that has been shot down eons ago.
It's like watching an boxing match between the World Champion and a guy who has put the gloves on his hands for the first time. You know that the guy is going to lose to the Champion, but you can't turn the channel off because you want to see the complete ownage.
This is one of the main reasons I am debating. Don't steal my fun now. 😄
It's not like I really have anything better to do at this point until finals start and stuff.
😆 ight DC, sorry for trolling your thread, but V you're still a dick bra ermmhappy
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Still wrong.I am not putting any sort of words in his mouth. He clearly stated that Phoenix could not hold his power for long.
“But she can't hold it for long.”
Yes, that is stated.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He also wrote Green Suit Phoenix have limits in CANON COMICS, and clearly showed that that Green Suit Phoenix is weaker then Dark Phoenix, as at soon as DP turned into GSP, she got weaker.
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4929/phoenixlimits4lu4.jpg
Yep, true. So it is established that BOTH DP and GSP have LIMITS. I already know that. Why are you differentiating?? 😆
Dark Phoenix has limits even when she NOT turning into GSP. Hell, even a fresh, pumping wit dark juice DP, has limits.
Your premise is FALSE. 😆
Claremont made the comparison in 1979 2 years AFTER, on the precipice OF the DP saga. 😆
Does Phoenix not STILL have limits even tot his very damn DAY???
Get another premise.
This "one is not another", "one has has no limits, while the other has, so therfore that's the one Claremont was comparing her to" is clearly false since it is clearly shown that they ALLL have limits. This whole "Claremont was talking about GSP" is never stated so it is false. It is your wishful thinking.
you change your mind more often than a drunk driver. your entire argument has been "storm is as powerful as phoenix," but when you get questioned on a claim you've made ["they keep eachother in check"] suddenly you're discussing their emotional bond as best friends? peddle your bullshit somewhere else.
blueD, the only thing hudlin's done to storm thus far is made her a subservient housewife who can't help but defend her new husband's honor and openly profess how utterly meaningless her life was before the wedding. does that sound like storm to you?
Originally posted by Disappear
you change your mind more often than a drunk driver. your entire argument has been "storm is as powerful as phoenix," but when you get questioned on a claim you've made ["they keep eachother in check"] suddenly you're discussing their emotional bond as best friends? peddle your bullshit somewhere else.
My God, you're so ****in obtuse. 😆
They keep each other in check as stated by Chris Claremont himself. I posted it on here somehwere, I'll find it.
What happened to the Fallen or First Fallen or whatever. The one that isn't Tyrant and is the opposite of the Phoenix Force that's supposed to keep it in check.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
💃
Originally posted by capt it up
I am sorry, but storm fans are now the most rediculous people on the forum..........
Originally posted by BlueDMighty
Can't argue with "Canon", although, when it comes to Storm alot of people like to pick and choose what qualifies as "canon" exactly. (If you're "called" an Omega, in canon, then you qualify. If someone, in "canon", compares you to the PHOENIX well.............?)I just want to see everybody's reaction when Hudlin makes her the 3-d Goddess she was always intended to be.
Normally, I don't think anyone would care what happens to Storm. In fact, without 2cloud and Rudy, I'm sure most people would be happy if Storm was finally announced as an omega or some half decently explained power-up occurred. Although in the case of the omega thing, it'd be kind of strange with her having the cable/nate/magneto thing going on with the readers constantly being reminded that their body is holding them back, something that doesn't seem to happen with omegas. But with all the negative attention...
You'll have Rudy and 2cloud claiming they were always right because of a recent event then the fuss would be everyone still explaining how information and the flow of time works to them.
