Hulk vs. Astonishing X-Men

Originally posted by pr1983
and yet, its those same programs that trained dozens of x-men, enabling them to go up against the magneto's and the juggernaut's of the world...

GROWN X-men. The only people comparable to Armor that have gone up against Magneto's and such are Kitty, Jubilee and Iceman. And Iceman is more suspension of disbelief thanks to it be Silver Age writing. Even then Magneto and Juggernaut (remember he used to just walk through and ignore their attacks and only really tried to kill X)weren't nearly as brutal towards the X-Men as a enraged Hulk would be.

and shadowcat will phase through, that's just how her powers work... if they didn't, she wouldnt have survived the kinds of things she has...

Now that I think about it, Hulk's likely dense enough to effect Shadowcat even when phased.

Supposition. The only things that have been shown to prevent Shadowcat phasing are adamantium, and the Kitty-proof box which she still phased through.

Emma and Kitty can just sink into the ground at fight start anyway.

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
GROWN X-men. The only people comparable to Armor that have gone up against Magneto's and such are Kitty, Jubilee and Iceman. And Iceman is more suspension of disbelief thanks to it be Silver Age writing. Even then Magneto and Juggernaut (remember he used to just walk through and ignore their attacks and only really tried to kill X)weren't nearly as brutal towards the X-Men as a enraged Hulk would be.

and shadowcat will phase through, that's just how her powers work... if they didn't, she wouldnt have survived the kinds of things she has...

Now that I think about it, Hulk's likely dense enough to effect Shadowcat even when phased.

Whenever she phases really dense people, they pass out.

Shadowcat on whitedwarf

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
GROWN X-men. The only people comparable to Armor that have gone up against Magneto's and such are Kitty, Jubilee and Iceman. And Iceman is more suspension of disbelief thanks to it be Silver Age writing. Even then Magneto and Juggernaut (remember he used to just walk through and ignore their attacks and only really tried to kill X)weren't nearly as brutal towards the X-Men as a enraged Hulk would be.

no matter how brutal he is, it doesn't mean armour is going to hesitate helping colossus and logan to try and slow him down... i think you're seriously underestimating her... when beast tried to eat her, she sucked it up and fought him off... she went against ord without hesitation, and she was obviously good enough that they made her an x-man...

Now that I think about it, Hulk's likely dense enough to effect Shadowcat even when phased.

i highly doubt that, for the reasons x has already stated...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
PIS? Show something stating it's a "high frequency sonic attack" or accept that it isn't.

How about it affecting beings who shouldn't be phased by Sonic Boom waves? Nah that'd mean I'm right.

And people talk and hear in space.

Cosmic Beings can talk and hear in space. How often do mutants like Kitty talk and hear in space?

So? That doesn't change that she phases through matter and energy.

Which doesn't change the fact that Sound still effects her.

She phases through comparable decibels.

Likely PIS (unlike Hype who was holding his ears in pain).

A thunder clap is a pressure wave.

That also emits a high frequency sound wave.

She phases Emma. Emma mind****s Hulk.

When was the last time someone was able to mind rape the Hulk using only telepathy again?

Oh and I wonder what would happen if Hulk punched Shadowcat. He's likely dense enough to cause her feed back from going through. He'd proabably be able to smash her.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Supposition. The only things that have been shown to prevent Shadowcat phasing are adamantium, and the Kitty-proof box which she still phased through.

Why couldn't she phase through these items again? You say Kitty almost died phasing through the box? Thought so.

it doesn't mean armour is going to hesitate helping colossus and logan to try and slow him down...

Yes she would, she was buggin out in the evil Emma arc when she was fighting with Wolverine, a being as intimidating as the Hulk would probably scare her to death.

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Which doesn't change the fact that Sound still effects her.

considering that sound is just another form of energy, it kinda does...

Likely PIS (unlike Hype who was holding his ears in pain).

not with the consistency she's shown...

Oh and I wonder what would happen if Hulk punched Shadowcat. He's likely dense enough to cause her feed back from going through. He'd proabably be able to smash her.

probably? that's kind of pushing it... 😬

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Yes she would, she was buggin out in the evil Emma arc when she was fighting with Wolverine, a being as intimidating as the Hulk would probably scare her to death.

what? when logan put his claws through her shield?

i think you're kind of pushing it, she's shown so far that she's well able for being an x-man, and she was pretty much instrumental in getting the x-men back on their feet, and helping logan fight danger and ord...

Emma's telepathy works just fine on primitive minds (in her "college training" with Astrid Bloom she learns how to affect pigeons' behavior with her TP) so it wouldn't be too difficult for her to calm Hulk down, thus ending the fight.
And while Kitty phases her out of harm's way, she doesn't have to worry about green giant clapping his hands.

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
That also emits a high frequency sound wave.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
PR and Charlotte have basically covered everything else, so all I'm going to point out is that this is baseless. 🙂

mmm, covering...

Originally posted by pr1983
considering that sound is just another form of energy, it kinda does...

Which was the whole point of the argument. A thunderclap would take her out of the event, at very least it will disorientate her enough to make her tangible and smashable (that's barring the chance of Hulk being dense enough to hurt her if she's intangible).

not with the consistency she's shown...

No, I'm saying I don't think writers take in account the sound produced from large scale explosions. But the pendulum swings both ways for this one.

probably? that's kind of pushing it... 😬

Probably isn't pushing it because it's a 50/50 affair. If Hulk is dense enough to affect her, she's going to get smashed, if he isn't, she'll get clapped and smashed.

Bleh I'll conceed the Armor point because she's irrelevant in the fight really.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Emma's telepathy works just fine on primitive minds (in her "college training" with Astrid Bloom she learns how to affect pigeons' behavior with her TP) so it wouldn't be too difficult for her to calm Hulk down, thus ending the fight.

Actually this is the problem. Hulk has one of the most complex minds in the Marvel Universe because of his multiple personalities.

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Which was the whole point of the argument. A thunderclap would take her out of the event, at very least it will disorientate her enough to make her tangible and smashable (that's barring the chance of Hulk being dense enough to hurt her if she's intangible).

huh? there's no proof a thunderclap will affect her... she's taken worse...

No, I'm saying I don't think writers take in account the sound produced from large scale explosions. But the pendulum swings both ways for this one.

whether it is or isn't is kind of irrelevant, what matters is comics consistency, and kitty's been shown to be largely unaffected by large explosions/sonic waves etc...

Probably isn't pushing it because it's a 50/50 affair. If Hulk is dense enough to affect her, she's going to get smashed, if he isn't, she'll get clapped and smashed.

i think 50/50 is pushing it, there's no evidence to support the stance that she'd be affected by a thunderclap...

Bleh I'll conceed the Armor point because she's irrelevant in the fight really.

if you say so... 😛

I remember you were arguing about Hulk thunderclapping Jack Hawksmoor on Coruscant...You are severely overrating thunderclap...just in attempt to give your favourite green brick something that looks like desent long range attack.

And sound is irrelevant when one phases through the air since sound is basically vibrations of air with certain frequency. That's PIS that she's able to speak when phased- but that's one of many comics "stipulations" which look so funny in real world- like people talking in space, flying on supersonic speeds while not having superhuman durability and so on...

Originally posted by pr1983
huh? there's no proof a thunderclap will affect her... she's taken worse...

She's taken other forms of attacks and shown that she does hear in her phased form. I don't see what there is to argue about, Hulk claps she's going to feel it.

whether it is or isn't is kind of irrelevant, what matters is comics consistency, and kitty's been shown to be largely unaffected by large explosions/sonic waves etc...

Actually it's only explosions which indirectly lead to sound waves, which I doubt most people are thinking of when they draw her in those situations.

i think 50/50 is pushing it, there's no evidence to support the stance that she'd be affected by a thunderclap...

She hears, she gets hurt. She's been shown to hear, so she will get hurt. And then there's Hulk likely being dense enough to cause her feedback, the odds is more like 80/20 in Hulk's favor now that I think about it.

Multiple personality? No problem...she's worked with such things before. And she can work with Banner's personality of mind, locking Hulk's one away- she has skill to do that, actually she's the most skilled "mental surgeon" alive in Marvel.
I didn't say that her powers work better on primitive minds- that was brought up just in case you would be arguing about "the infinite rage of savage berserker Hulk"- that's the reason.

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
[B]She's taken other forms of attacks and shown that she does hear in her phased form. I don't see what there is to argue about, Hulk claps she's going to feel it.

any large explosion will have similar effects as hulk's sonic clap, and she's withstood those with relative ease many a time...

Actually it's only explosions which indirectly lead to sound waves, which I doubt most people are thinking of when they draw her in those situations.

and yet how do we know when joss whedon isn't writing the attack by the giant sentinel, he believes that she'll withstand it? we don't know either way, all we do know is that so far she hasn't been affected by such phenomena...

She hears, she gets hurt. She's been shown to hear, so she will get hurt. And then there's Hulk likely being dense enough to cause her feedback, the odds is more like 80/20 in Hulk's favor now that I think about it.

her power has protected her from huge sonic waves before, its not going to make a difference now... 😬

and saying that hulk is 'likely' to be dense enough to hurt her is again, kinda pushing it, and comes across, at least to me, as quite a bit of wishful thinking... 😬

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
I remember you were arguing about Hulk thunderclapping Jack Hawksmoor on Coruscant...You are severely overrating thunderclap...just in attempt to give your favourite green brick something that looks like desent long range attack.

No you're just not understanding the nature of certain characters powers. Hawksmoor on Coruscant is no more formidable then Hawksmoor in LA and has never done anything to show as much (outside of making empty boasts to a renegade doctor), he just has a bigger playground.

And sound is irrelevant when one phases through the air since sound is basically vibrations of air with certain frequency. That's PIS that she's able to speak when phased- but that's one of many comics "stipulations" which look so funny in real world- like people talking in space, flying on supersonic speeds while not having superhuman durability and so on...

Oh I don't think it's a stipulation, I've just only seen examples of Kitty taking indirect sound wave attacks as proof of her immunity (those are more loopholes then anything). If I see her taken on a full scale sonic attack then the point will be conceeded

[QUOTE=8943750]Originally posted by pr1983
any large explosion will have similar effects as hulk's sonic clap, and she's withstood those with relative ease many a time...

Any large explosion will be able to knock out Hyperion based on sound generation?

we don't know either way, all we do know is that so far she hasn't been affected by such phenomena...

She hears doesn't she? That's her being affected.

her power has protected her from huge sonic waves before, its not going to make a difference now... 😬

When?

and saying that hulk is 'likely' to be dense enough to hurt her is again, kinda pushing it, and comes across, at least to me, as quite a bit of wishful thinking... 😬

Kitty has shown to have troubles in the past phasing through extremely dense substances, like addy, I don't see why someone who's arguably as dense as it wouldn't be able to give her feedback.

And as for Jack, I know that's offtopic- but:
1)the ability to merge with city in less than second
2) (shown in huge cities) healing factor which is even more effective that Wolverine's one

The proofs of both of that are in Authority respect thread.

And as for Hyperion- that's most probably PIS. Apoc was made run away from f*cking table- so now tables are his Cryptonite?