Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Just like how Kitty Pryde is always consciously manipulating weak force, strong force, electromagnetism and gravity whenever she phases the atoms of her body through matter and energy, huh? 🙄
But X! You forgot air pressure dome eathquake synapse fry!
But it's weak against concrete.
Originally posted by Rutog98
http://geoimages.berkeley.edu/wwp905/html/MilkoAmorth.htmlTry reading that. Also, in numerous books I have read over the years, it has been stated that hurricanes generate enough energy to power the US for six months. Storm can generate storms much more powerful than real life hurricanes and her reach is far greater than any hurricane as she can reach all around the planet for her resources. She basically has the resources of the entire planet at her beck and call.
Here is something else to read:
Obviously it would take much less energy to trigger a hurricane than it would be to create one manually otherwise Storm would be one stupid broad. And Storm doesn't usually have hurricanes going for days does she? Also, the first website is just a copy and paste from the second website.
Originally posted by Rutog98
Ororo did not hold that skyscraper still. She lifted it. Did you not notice that she was flying in the air with the building above her on a pillar of wind? In "Schism," she flew from New Orleans to New York in a matter of minutes. That was not an 8-10 hour flight given what was going on in the story. Emma was walking around in her astral form. This means all of what she accomplished was going on at the speed of thought. Bishop and Sage were not lolligagging around and they know their way around the mansion. They confronted Emma and by the time they threw her out of the building, Storm had arrived. She also flew from Australia to the Savage Land in antarctica in no time flat.Not only this, there is the whole issue where Storm knocked down Magneto's force-field and where she redirected the full power of Siena Blaze, etc.
Storm can generate winds much greater than real life winds (and she has on numerous occassions) and it would still not violate what was printed in the source you gave. That comment about not going beyond what can occur naturally on Earth has been printed in every official handbook I have read about the character including the 300 mph thing. Its something how they took it out in this one where the bio is also more comprehensive than any previous bio written. For instance, we finally see them state that she can control the solar winds. She channelled all of that steller energy in 165 (this just came up over the last 2 years in the Handbooks).
The fact is, you are trying to tie Storm's winds down to a 300 mph limit so you can disregard her higher power stunts. This covers you in future debates because rather than having to combat a character withstanding the tremendous amounts of forces Ororo has generated with her winds, you would try and just prove they can withstand forces greater than 300 mph winds. Its not going to work. Sorry.
Your reaching, in Shicsm there is no sense of time or distance. You are making figures up.
Emma being in her Astral Form does not mean the whole event took place in the matter of a thought. She wasn't trying to shut his mind down, she was trying to find the truth that Bogan managed to hide so well.
How do you know a wind of 300mph focused on a skyskraper couldn't hold/lift it up? Again you're making figures up...and making huge assumptions to support your this crazy idea. The handbook clearly says:
"Storm cannot create atmospheric conditions that do not exist naturally in her enviroment"
You're only assuming that 1000mph winds can occur naturally on Earth.
When it comes to debates you assume too much exaggerating Storms high level feats.
I already proved that Magneto broke his own shields by sticking his hand through the bubble. That is when Storm attacked.
Originally posted by Rutog98
Tell me about it. I have never seen such desperate tactics from anybody. I remember in the Storm vs. Hulk thread where he tried so hard to prove that Storm could not control the cosmic winds despite she had done it in canon. He pulled up the Classic X-Men issue complimenting issue of Uncanny 99 where the instance was rewritten by the writer and totally wanted to ignore the classic equal to Uncanny 164 where it was written back into the character. Then I beat him over the head big time with this issue of the Official Handbook that just came out that gave her the power again. Then he tried to debate that because Storm had the ability to evolve into a real goddess did not mean that she could wield unlimited power. He then tried to argue that her ability to transcend humanity was a statement not only for her, but for other mutants as well and then totally wanted to ignore the fact that her powers are limited only by the force of her will and strength of her body. In other words, if she transcends humanity (which in Storm's case, it was stated that she would become a true goddess), it would nullify that weakness. As Roguestorm, we saw her beginning to evolve and her powers were stated to be near-infinite. The issue also stated that she finally knew how Jean Grey felt as Phoenix to be tempted by ultimate power as Storm was as well tempted by ultimate power. However, she turned it down unlike Dark Phoenix (who's powers were near infinite at the time of her demise) who died before she could actually reach it.Now he is trying again to come up with the most LUDICROUS comments imaginable to try and limit the force of Ororo's winds which would ignore a great deal of her power showings. For instance, Magneto, while stunned, was VERY easily able to withstand the combined powers of Cyclops, Wolverine and Colossus, yet Storm's winds taxed his powers greatly. I mean, the list just goes on and on.
I gave you the first bit because I'm not above admitting I was wrong I don't have my head in the clouds like you...the topic then changed to the credibility of that particular Gale feat in Classic X-Men the fact that they changed retcons the old issue.
However as for the rest you haven't shown anything other then speculate. Then I got bored and decided it was a waste of time debating with a fanboy. So by all means continue with the snarky comments it doesn't do anything for your case or Storm for that matter...
So far you have named 3 high showings for Storms winds.
- Skyscraper
- Schism
- Magnetos Shield.
In the first and second there is no sense of time, distance or wind speed so anything else would just be speculation.
The third did not happen.
I think I'll add this here just for the sake of adding it.
Storm attacks Magneto with her Lightning.
Magneto sticks his hand out of his shield to absorb Storms lighting and in doing so HE BREAKS HIS OWN shield/bubble.
Storm then attacks Magneto whose shield is already "Broken"/Dissolved because he let his hand through it, with her winds.
Therefore she did not break his shield. Magneto broke/dissolved his own shield.
Please bring up another feat...that clearly shows her flight speed.
I'm open to changing my mind...you just have to prove your point without making up figures.
An example of a flight speed feat is this:
http://img130.imageshack.us/my.php?image=classicxmen01808xy8.jpg
One more thing:
Using Google Map...A straight line from New Orleans to New York is approximetely 1666.666 km in distance.
If Storm travels at a maximum speed of 300mph which is equal to 482.8032 km/hr
3.45hrs to reach her destination. This is a pretty reasonable figure for story purposes.
Also note that Storm leaves to make her journey before Emma even starts probing Jeffrey. And before Sage and Bishop reach the Security panel. Therefore it's still well within reason for Sage and Bishop to take 3.45hrs to carry out their mission. Because they still have to deal with the mansion security etc...
And seeing how we don't know the exact location of the New Orleans base or the Xavier Mansion it's hard to get an accurate figure. Therefore anything else is just speculation.
I've just been informed that you're referring to the CoC V2 #2....umm how is that a skyscraper? During their fight they damaged half the building. And when Storm lifted it up it barely looked like a house let a lone a skyscraper.
Now that I realize you were talking about CoC V2 #2...
How is she lifting it? She braced it after he burnt away a few beams and even then then she only braced a part of it. Where does it show her lifting it? In the second last scan there's still a huge chunk of foundation attached to the top part. It by no means shows her lifting it. So in fact she only braced/supported the part of the building. Which hardly counts as a skysrcaper by the way. She didn't lift it, she braced it...and then let go of it....the building crumbled...and she blew the debris on top of the Human Torch.
Notice there's no actual mention of her wind speed.
Here are the scans to allow people to decide for themselves.
Originally posted by ExodusCloakIt's more likely that Chris Claremont in senility and/or laziness neglected how long it would take Storm to travel the distance.
One more thing:Using Google Map...A straight line from New Orleans to New York is approximetely 1666.666 km in distance.
If Storm travels at a maximum speed of 300mph which is equal to 482.8032 km/hr
3.45hrs to reach her destination. This is a pretty reasonable figure for story purposes.
Also note that Storm leaves to make her journey before Emma even starts probing Jeffrey. And before Sage and Bishop reach the Security panel. Therefore it's still well within reason for Sage and Bishop to take 3.45hrs to carry out their mission. Because they still have to deal with the mansion security etc...
And seeing how we don't know the exact location of the New Orleans base or the Xavier Mansion it's hard to get an accurate figure. Therefore anything else is just speculation.
There is no way to tell the time span. A 3 and a 1/2 hour time fits fine with the story.
If someone is going to try and say she did it in a shorter time then please indicate how short?
A minute? Which would require a flight speed of Mach 81.6?
5 minutes? Mach 16.3?
10 minutes? Mach 8.2?
30 minutes? Mach 2.7?
Even an hour requires Mach 1.4.
Storm in all her numerous appearances flying has never broken the sound barrier i.e. Mach 1 on panel in flight. Ever. That I can recall. Unless and until someone can post on panel her breaking the sound barrier in flight - something like this for instance:
She can't break the sound barrier. Therefore either she took at least 1.5-3 hours or so to fly there or that's just a single outlying and unquantifiable SvFL event.
During the House of M Uncanny tie-ins Claremont had Rachel whine about how she had no alternate reality counterparts; then in the same issue or thereabouts had an alternate reality reverse-gender X-Men team that had a Rachel counterpart. Bad and lazy writing is nothing new to Claremont these days.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's more likely that Chris Claremont in senility and/or laziness neglected how long it would take Storm to travel the distance.There is no way to tell the time span. A 3 and a 1/2 hour time fits fine with the story.
If someone is going to try and say she did it in a shorter time then please indicate how short?
A minute? Which would require a flight speed of Mach 81.6?
5 minutes? Mach 16.3?
10 minutes? Mach 8.2?
30 minutes? Mach 2.7?
Even an hour requires Mach 1.4.Storm in all her numerous appearances flying has never broken the sound barrier i.e. Mach 1 on panel in flight. Ever. That I can recall. Unless and until someone can post on panel her breaking the sound barrier in flight - something like this for instance:
She can't break the sound barrier. Therefore either she took at least 1.5-3 hours or so to fly there or that's just a single outlying and unquantifiable SvFL event.During the House of M Uncanny tie-ins Claremont had Rachel whine about how she had no alternate reality counterparts; then in the same issue or thereabouts had an alternate reality reverse-gender X-Men team that had a Rachel counterpart. Bad and lazy writing is nothing new to Claremont these days.
Exactly...
I can recall two instances of the top off my head where they label the strength of her winds.
150 Knots = Approx. 173mph During the Roguestorm incident.
And here during the Proteus incident. 100mph winds.
Here we can't be sure whether or not she actually does what she says but we have a sense of distance anyway. She says she can travel 90 miles in "minutes" and idiom. But if she travels 300mph(She was desperate to get to her destination really quickly it was a matter of life and death) then if my calculations are correct she'll reach their in approx. 18 minutes. Which is in fact minutes. Anyway she said it....but even here we're not sure whether or not she pulled off what she said.
And here's the Handbook 2004 where it states that Storm is limited to 300mph winds. I'll leave it up to the reader to decide whether or not the New Handbook contradicts this statement. The new handbook is on the previous page of this thread.
Here's the 2004 Handbook.
http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page036hh5.jpg
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Your reaching, in Shicsm there is no sense of time or distance. You are making figures up.
Emma being in her Astral Form does not mean the whole event took place in the matter of a thought. She wasn't trying to shut his mind down, she was trying to find the truth that Bogan managed to hide so well.How do you know a wind of 300mph focused on a skyskraper couldn't hold/lift it up? Again you're making figures up...and making huge assumptions to support your this crazy idea. The handbook clearly says:
"Storm cannot create atmospheric conditions that do not exist naturally in her enviroment"
You're only assuming that 1000mph winds can occur naturally on Earth.
When it comes to debates you assume too much exaggerating Storms high level feats.I already proved that Magneto broke his own shields by sticking his hand through the bubble. That is when Storm attacked.
I gave you the first bit because I'm not above admitting I was wrong I don't have my head in the clouds like you...the topic then changed to the credibility of that particular Gale feat in Classic X-Men the fact that they changed retcons the old issue.
However as for the rest you haven't shown anything other then speculate. Then I got bored and decided it was a waste of time debating with a fanboy. So by all means continue with the snarky comments it doesn't do anything for your case or Storm for that matter...So far you have named 3 high showings for Storms winds.
- Skyscraper
- Schism
- Magnetos Shield.In the first and second there is no sense of time, distance or wind speed so anything else would just be speculation.
The third did not happen.
I think I'll add this here just for the sake of adding it.
Storm attacks Magneto with her Lightning.
Magneto sticks his hand out of his shield to absorb Storms lighting and in doing so HE BREAKS HIS OWN shield/bubble.
Storm then attacks Magneto whose shield is already "Broken"/Dissolved because he let his hand through it, with her winds.
Therefore she did not break his shield. Magneto broke/dissolved his own shield.
Please bring up another feat...that clearly shows her flight speed.
I'm open to changing my mind...you just have to prove your point without making up figures.An example of a flight speed feat is this:
http://img130.imageshack.us/my.php?image=classicxmen01808xy8.jpg
We now have to assume he took his sheild down COMPLETELY, and not just allowed a small opening in/by the second Panel. He just stuck his hand through. Even in that, she STILL broke his sheild COMPLETELY. I can see if he let his sheild down COMPLETELY to make allowancs for te absorbtion of electromagnetic energy ala Storm's lightning, but he only made allowances through a arm-sized opening.😖mart:
You ASSUME that just because his sheild is down in TOTALITY in the next panel, he ALLOWED it to happen. You jump to conclusions as well. 😱
His sheild is not down in totality in one panel, only a small opening. Yet, in the following panel, his sheild is COMPLETLY down in ADDITON to Storm's vortex engrossing him.
Now children, what does that tell us???? 😕
The scan STILL is a testament Storm's speed since she had the tornado around him BEFORE he could re-erect his sheild😱
Even with all that, he STILL said "my magnetic powers are anchoring me...."
😖mart:
I can't believe you all are debating the speed thing.
If it was well over 3 hrs, why would the writer use the termonology "MINUTES"????!?!?! 😆
It was at least in the time frame of 1- 59 mins(less than an hour)otherwise it would have been stated "in an HOUR"
It said MINUTES to show a VERY short timeframe(not OVER 3 hrs, but more than likely under an HOUR). Otherwise, it would have sated 'x'amount of HOURS
😆 @ the DESPERATION.
Originally posted by 2damnloudThe terminology "minutes" was never stated anywhere. It never states any time frame whatsoever in X-treme X-Men #22. You fail. Get back on the short bus.
I can't believe you all are debating the speed thing.If it was well over 3 hrs, why would the writer use the termonology "MINUTES"????!?!?! 😆
It was at least in the time frame of 1- 59 mins(less than an hour)otherwise it would have been stated "in an HOUR"
It said MINUTES to show a VERY short timeframe(not OVER 3 hrs, but more than likely under an HOUR). Otherwise, it would have sated 'x'amount of HOURS
😆 @ the DESPERATION.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
We now have to assume he took his sheild down COMPLETELY, and not just allowed a small opening in/by the second Panel. He just stuck his hand through. Even in that, she STILL broke his sheild COMPLETELY. I can see if he let his sheild down COMPLETELY to make allowancs for te absorbtion of electromagnetic energy ala Storm's lightning, but he only made allowances through a arm-sized opening.😖mart:You ASSUME that just because his sheild is down in TOTALITY in the next panel, he ALLOWED it to happen. You jump to conclusions as well. 😱
His sheild is not down in totality in one panel, only a small opening. Yet, in the following panel, his sheild is COMPLETLY down in ADDITON to Storm's vortex engrossing him.
Now children, what does that tell us???? 😕
The scan STILL is a testament Storm's speed since she had the tornado around him BEFORE he could re-erect his sheild😱
Even with all that, he STILL said "my magnetic powers are anchoring me...."
😖mart:
Eh she attacks him with her tornado while he's absorbing her lightning...there's a hole in his shield...hence he is now open to attack. What's so hard to understand?
I never said it was down in totality the fact that there's a hole in his shield means she didn't break it. She saw an opportunity and took it. The hole in the shield is what made him vunerable to attack. It was her window of opportunity.
Magneto has on ocassion turned Storms lightning against her by setting up an interference field, I don't think speed is that much of problem since he managed to attack her before her lightning could even connect.
Fact remains she didn't break his shield. He broke it himself.
BTW Do you know anything about Storm? You realize that she's an Atmokinetic right? The fact that there was a hole in Magnetos shield means Storm would have been able to manipulate the atmosphere inside his shield. Hence the window of opportunity. She has never shown otherwise when he has had his shield up in perfect condition.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The terminology "minutes" was never stated anywhere. It never states any time frame whatsoever in X-treme X-Men #22. You fail. Get back on the short bus.
Cosigned
Anyway I said what I have to say....now it's up to the KMC people to look at both sides and make a decision for themselves...
