Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Note that you are using Wiki as your source. Anything that looks like conjecture on Wiki probably is.
Actually, this is true. Hence, she has always kept her emotions in check and tended to be very responsible with her powers given the damage she can wreck on the ecosystem.
Crimany, this is way off topic. I'll push it further.
Originally posted by Rutog98
Not so. She is able to disperse hurricanes. She has even dispelled a hemisphere-sized hurricane. Ergo, she does manipulate those enormous amounts of energies.
This would mean Storm has risked and cost lives refusing to use a non-weather abilities because she's a show off, Storm is one of the most air headed characters ever penciled, or this explanation is nothing but wishful thinking. That's if that is what you're suggesting.
As far as Magneto goes, Storm's powers technically overlap his. She controls the forces that governs the weather as well as weather manifestations themselves. This includes EM fields. Considering the amount of ecosystem she has been able to alter without outside enhancements, she's much more powerful than he as he can't move that much energy on his own.
Also, in Uncanny 147, she control over ALL elemental forces which would include Magneto's powers. Not only that, but in the Brood Saga, we see that Ororo can perceive the universe as patterns of energy and forces and bend them to her will. This included planets, stars and even empty space.
Again, I haven't seen her manipulate any gravity or anything in the EM spectrum or split atoms or anything. Even if her powers do spread into Magneto's area of expertise it's still that, his expertise. He's far more skilled and far more powerful in this area. Although Storm can probably do things in a wider area, I doubt it's enough to trump the sheer power Magneto screws with doing pretty much anything.
Just a simple shield with enough magnetic force to make even non-metallic objects hit it as if it was a solid object just boggles the mind.
What you are trying to assert with Mangeto, Storm has already achieved and gone beyond. Magneto has never wielded the power of millions of stars or even a single star. He would kill himself even trying to do a global EMP wave without artificial enhancements or extraordinary circumstances surrounding the condition of the EM fields.
What's wrong with this one? I just grabbed it out of the Magneto respect thread whilst looking for his tanker lifting feat. Which I never found. Did the captain say how much that weighed? Does anybody know?
Anyway, are there three occasions where Storm is manipulating even half a star? Maybe she went out with a couple girlfriends and they split a star 4 ways. Any of those?
Originally posted by 2damnloud
LMAO@"a few little tweaks"Explain what exactly she "tweaks" to disperse a Hurricane???
😆
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
These weather phenomenas require certain conditions to exist. A few little tweaks and the whole thing falls apart. What it sounds like you're suggesting is she's moving every individual air particle in big loops to form hurricanes or tornadoes like a telekinetic, which in turn would mean she's probably manipulating way more power than the actual weather effect generates.This would mean Storm has risked and cost lives refusing to use a non-weather abilities because she's a show off, Storm is one of the most air headed characters ever penciled, or this explanation is nothing but wishful thinking. That's if that is what you're suggesting.
Man, this is very well put!
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Puh-leeze. Hurricanes aren't perpetual motion machines. Muck up the fronts fueling it and it dies. Of course, this being fiction and a comic, double fiction, it happens way faster than it would normally.
Im sure it takes a little bit more that that to disperse a Hurricane.
And to "muck up the fronts fueling them" consist of what on Storm's part.
In the answer you'll find that Storm is tapping into a GREAT deal of POWERFUL forces in concert in order to make this happen. Electromagnetic is just one.
Let me reiterate, Storm controls the weather. This means........................alotta shit.
And weather always exist in one form or another everywhere at all times, and storm can control it
Originally posted by 2damnloud
In the answer you'll find that Storm is tapping into a GREAT deal of POWERFUL forces in concert in order to make this happen. Electromagnetic is just one.Let me reiterate, Storm controls the weather. This means........................alotta shit.
all weather is electromagnetic force
maybe a little bit of gravity....
Originally posted by inamilist
all weather is electromagnetic forcemaybe a little bit of gravity....
That doesn't necissarily mean that she has the same control over the EMS as, say Magneto or Thor.
It sounds more or less like an assumption from 2damloud and Rutgog that she'd be able to do the same things that beings that are considerably more powerful than her could do.
Originally posted by Rutog98
Ororo did not hold that skyscraper still. She lifted it. Did you not notice that she was flying in the air with the building above her on a pillar of wind? In "Schism," she flew from New Orleans to New York in a matter of minutes. That was not an 8-10 hour flight given what was going on in the story. Emma was walking around in her astral form. This means all of what she accomplished was going on at the speed of thought. Bishop and Sage were not lolligagging around and they know their way around the mansion. They confronted Emma and by the time they threw her out of the building, Storm had arrived. She also flew from Australia to the Savage Land in antarctica in no time flat.Not only this, there is the whole issue where Storm knocked down Magneto's force-field and where she redirected the full power of Siena Blaze, etc.
Storm can generate winds much greater than real life winds (and she has on numerous occassions) and it would still not violate what was printed in the source you gave. That comment about not going beyond what can occur naturally on Earth has been printed in every official handbook I have read about the character including the 300 mph thing. Its something how they took it out in this one where the bio is also more comprehensive than any previous bio written. For instance, we finally see them state that she can control the solar winds. She channelled all of that steller energy in 165 (this just came up over the last 2 years in the Handbooks).
The fact is, you are trying to tie Storm's winds down to a 300 mph limit so you can disregard her higher power stunts. This covers you in future debates because rather than having to combat a character withstanding the tremendous amounts of forces Ororo has generated with her winds, you would try and just prove they can withstand forces greater than 300 mph winds. Its not going to work. Sorry.
just out of curiosity, why does the fact that Emma is in her astral form mean that everything is taking place at the speed of thought?
And just out of curiosity, what's the defense against Jenny Sparks simply shutting down Storm's brain by depriving it of electrical currents?
Originally posted by 2damnloud
Im sure it takes a little bit more that that to disperse a Hurricane.
Let me reiterate, Storm controls the weather. This means........................alotta shit.
This coincides with my theory that Storm has really intricate control over energy, but not really a lot of it. Well, she's got the range thing so it's just really spread out, but per square foot pretty low; if that makes sense. Thus she has to coax the weather into doing her bidding to have a greater effect. It would explain being able to play with the water currents, which work just like winds, basically running cold to warm or warm to cold, I forget which direction. And possibly the solar wind stuff.
Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
That doesn't necissarily mean that she has the same control over the EMS as, say Magneto or Thor.It sounds more or less like an assumption from 2damloud and Rutgog that she'd be able to do the same things that beings that are considerably more powerful than her could do.
lol
nono, thats not what I was implying at all
It was more in comment to the "powerful forces" controlled by Storm, and "electromagnetism" being just one.
I'm simply pointing out that all the effects of weather we observe are electromagnetic. Gravity might help rain fall down versus anything else, but I cannot fathom what nuclear fores would do in the generation of lightning or in dropping barometric pressure...
Its a ridiculous jump to go from atmospheric manipulation of EM fields to magneto-esque EM manipulation, so I totally agree with that.
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Crimany, this is way off topic. I'll push it further.These weather phenomenas require certain conditions to exist. A few little tweaks and the whole thing falls apart. What it sounds like you're suggesting is she's moving every individual air particle in big loops to form hurricanes or tornadoes like a telekinetic, which in turn would mean she's probably manipulating way more power than the actual weather effect generates. [
This would mean Storm has risked and cost lives refusing to use a non-weather abilities because she's a show off, Storm is one of the most air headed characters ever penciled, or this explanation is nothing but wishful thinking. That's if that is what you're suggesting.
In Uncanny 151, it explains that it is more difficult for Ororo to disperse storms than to create them since when the forces come together, they are far greater than the sum of its parts. Hence, what I am saying is correct. Storm's ability to control the forces of nature are owed to her unity to the life-force of the planet. Storm is FAR more powerful than you are trying to make her out to be.
When did Storm start manipulating enough radiation and light to be consider a manipulator of the EM? I know once she made an EMP out of lightning, somehow, but I don't think she ever did that again. I know she shoots that moder-ightning out of her hands so I supposed you could technically say she manipulates EM energy.
No, she has done EM pulses a number of times, actually. Also, in "Magneto War," she controlled the EM energies in Magneto's energy tower. She has also generated EM fields and controlled them.
Again, I haven't seen her manipulate any gravity or anything in the EM spectrum or split atoms or anything. Even if her powers do spread into Magneto's area of expertise it's still that, his expertise. He's far more skilled and far more powerful in this area. Although Storm can probably do things in a wider area, I doubt it's enough to trump the sheer power Magneto screws with doing pretty much anything.[/Bold][/Quote]
You should have asked me about gravity a few years ago. Anywhoo, Magneto is shown doing more stunts with it, but technically, Storm is more powerful. There is no way he is more powerful than a character who can alter as much as the ecosystem as Ororo.
Just a simple shield with enough magnetic force to make even non-metallic objects hit it as if it was a solid object just boggles the mind.
I just call it a suspension of belief for the sake of the comic.
What's wrong with this one? I just grabbed it out of the Magneto respect thread whilst looking for his tanker lifting feat. Which I never found. Did the captain say how much that weighed? Does anybody know?
Anyway, are there three occasions where Storm is manipulating even half a star? Maybe she went out with a couple girlfriends and they split a star 4 ways. Any of those?
The EM fields in that instance were tampered with by a machine Forge created. The field was warped to such an extent that Magneto could not use his powers within the atmosphere lest the EM fields backfire his power upon him and destroy him. He blasted the field while it was in this warped state and the global pulse was the reaction. Read the captions. Now, in "Magneto War," when the fields were not tampered with, MAgneto had to use a machine to augment his powers to cause a global blackout in order to blackmail the world's goverments. In other words, he cannot pull a stunt like this unless there are extenuating circumstances surrounding the conditions of the EM fields or he has a machine to boost his powers.
Storm can control the matter of stars as she has summoned the full power of millions of stars, she can and has controlled the cosmic winds which come from stars and is composed of steller energies and Uncanny 166 flat out states that she can control these forces as well.
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
It seems like it'd take just that. Cancel out the storms, change the pressure, hurricane over.[b]
This coincides with my theory that Storm has really intricate control over energy, but not really a lot of it. Well, she's got the range thing so it's just really spread out, but per square foot pretty low; if that makes sense. Thus she has to coax the weather into doing her bidding to have a greater effect. It would explain being able to play with the water currents, which work just like winds, basically running cold to warm or warm to cold, I forget which direction. And possibly the solar wind stuff.
Uncanny 179 states that Storm has absolute control over the weather. End of story. She is "Mistress of the Elements" and Cable issue 18 or 19 states that her control over the elements cannot be matched. Give the lady her due.
Originally posted by Rutog98
In Uncanny 151, it explains that it is more difficult for Ororo to disperse storms than to create them since when the forces come together, they are far greater than the sum of its parts. Hence, what I am saying is correct. Storm's ability to control the forces of nature are owed to her unity to the life-force of the planet. Storm is FAR more powerful than you are trying to make her out to be.
You should have asked me about gravity a few years ago. Anywhoo, Magneto is shown doing more stunts with it, but technically, Storm is more powerful. There is no way he is more powerful than a character who can alter as much as the ecosystem as Ororo.
In a massive area, perhaps, but it's very debatable within Magneto's range. Many of the things he does that are possible through magnetic fields require obscene amounts of energy. Sadly, I don't have any kind of numbers or formulas so my word is about as concrete as yours. Except mine's wearing a viking helmet.
I just call it a suspension of belief for the sake of the comic.
I call it a tribute to the amount of power he summons. It's really not that unusual when looking at all his various other feats.
The EM fields in that instance were tampered with by a machine Forge created. The field was warped to such an extent that Magneto could not use his powers within the atmosphere lest the EM fields backfire his power upon him and destroy him. He blasted the field while it was in this warped state and the global pulse was the reaction. Read the captions.
The captions say nothing about Forge, the field being warped, or any kind of reaction. So I'll have to take your word for it.
Now, in "Magneto War," when the fields were not tampered with, MAgneto had to use a machine to augment his powers to cause a global blackout in order to blackmail the world's goverments. In other words, he cannot pull a stunt like this unless there are extenuating circumstances surrounding the conditions of the EM fields or he has a machine to boost his powers.
Oh well, I'm sure there are others. Or other feats that trump a global EMP.
Storm can control the matter of stars as she has summoned the full power of millions of stars, she can and has controlled the cosmic winds which come from stars and is composed of steller energies and Uncanny 166 flat out states that she can control these forces as well.
What kind of BS one shot set up this millions of stars stuff? Question: Why is Storm letting Galactus butcher billions upon billions of people when she can easily feed him energy or create planets for him to feed on? The answer is probably because she can't and it was a one time feat.
The plasma thing is no big deal though. That stuff's in lightning and light bulbs. It's mostly electrons apparently. I don't know if you know this, but she shoots that stuff out of her hands.
Originally posted by Swanky-TunaSo she actually controls the amount of energy it would take to create a hurricane that covers half the planet? Then why does she choose to waste it making silly weather effects? Is she so full of herself that she has to create a show when she does anything? On the contrary, I think you're making her out to be way more powerful than she actually is.[/B]The lady has been able to focus the full electrical power of a storm into a single bolt of lightning. And yes, she does control that much energy. As for why she is not always written at that power level, she outpowers all of the X-villains.
Here is Storm doing what I am saying with a blizzard on a continental scale: http://img356.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm121pg145yd.jpg
Now, she dispelled a HEMISPHERE-sized hurricane with just a gesture in Hidden Years issue 7.
If Ororo wanted to, she could drain Earth of all of its life energies as she does stars. Its a living world. She's far more powerful than the x-villains and far more powerful than you give her credit for. However, I do agree that you raise a good point: If she has all of this power, why doesn't she use it more? The answer is simple: She should be an Avenger or Fantastic Four otherwise the fights would be one-panel fights with Storm.
[quote]
In a massive area, perhaps, but it's very debatable within Magneto's range. Many of the things he does that are possible through magnetic fields require obscene amounts of energy. Sadly, I don't have any kind of numbers or formulas so my word is about as concrete as yours. Except mine's wearing a viking helmet.
He's not as powerful as Storm as we know he can't alter that much of the ecosystem. Do you see how much stronger Storm is? For her to alter weather over a continent (which she has done at least twice) or a hemisphere, she is not only controlling EM fields, but even other forces like moisture, pressure gradients etc on that scale that Magneto has no control over at all. Within Magneto's range, Storm *should* be more powerful. Its not so much range that limits Magneto but the amount of power his body can handle. Hence in "Magneto War," when that machine that was boosting his power to enable him to cause that planetary black outwas destroyed, that power was forced in Magneto's body. He nearly lost his life and was burned out of power as a result of it. Storm is doing FAR worse than a mere blackout and is controlling not only the energies Magneto uses, but other forces that she has dominion over that he does not on a massive scale simulaneously. This means that Storm can draw upon more energy than Magneto.
I call it a tribute to the amount of power he summons. It's really not that unusual when looking at all his various other feats.[/quote]
Magneto is powerful. I will give him his due there, but Ororo is much moreso. He's just not in her category is all. I will go even further and state that if Storm were not on the X-Men or a Phoenix-possessed Jean Grey, Magneto could realistically have a 50/50 shot in taking down the team in open combat without any of the characters being written down or any enhanced reaction brought to bear on Magneto's part.
The captions say nothing about Forge, the field being warped, or any kind of reaction. So I'll have to take your word for it.[/B]
The caption does mention that the EM fields were skewered. It may be other pages in the issue, but Forge did create the machine.
Oh well, I'm sure there are others. Or other feats that trump a global EMP.[/quote]
Such as?
What kind of BS one shot set up this millions of stars stuff? Question: Why is Storm letting Galactus butcher billions upon billions of people when she can easily feed him energy or create planets for him to feed on? The answer is probably because she can't and it was a one time feat.
Actually, it is now in the official handbook that Storm can do this.
Here is Storm redirecting the energies in Magneto's energy tower during "Magneto War:" http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=redirectinglightning4sx.jpg
[/B][/QUOTE]
LMAO@ the "If she has that much power why doesn't she stop Galactus. Obviously she doesn't have that much power" fallacy 😆
Why doesn't Mags fix the ozone layer with his Powers?? If he doesn't, then he really doesn't have complete control over the EM spectrum, cuz I mean.....ya know 🙄
Has magneto even made clothes out of NOTHING by munipulating the atom in the air??? Well, I guess that measn he doesn;t have complete control over the EM spectrum then 🙄
Such BS sometimes
😖mart
Originally posted by ExodusCloakExactly...
I can recall two instances of the top off my head where they label the strength of her winds.
150 Knots = Approx. 173mph During the Roguestorm incident.
And here during the Proteus incident. 100mph winds.
Here we can't be sure whether or not she actually does what she says but we have a sense of distance anyway. She says she can travel 90 miles in "minutes" and idiom. But if she travels 300mph(She was desperate to get to her destination really quickly it was a matter of life and death) then if my calculations are correct she'll reach their in approx. 18 minutes. Which is in fact minutes. Anyway she said it....but even here we're not sure whether or not she pulled off what she said.
And here's the Handbook 2004 where it states that Storm is limited to 300mph winds. I'll leave it up to the reader to decide whether or not the New Handbook contradicts this statement. The new handbook is on the previous page of this thread.
Here's the 2004 Handbook.
http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page036hh5.jpg
This is all really silly. LOL! Thanks, I needed the laugh. So what you have are some issues that state her strongest winds are 100 mph. Fine, I have another issue where she can barely stand owing to Sauron draining her powers and she hits him with 200 mph winds which were obviously not her best. Then you have issues where she flies 300 mph.
Can you not see what is going on? When she is pulling massive stunts like lifting a skyscraper (and no, she was not bracing it as she was FLYING in the air while those same winds were holding the skyscraper above her. Those winds were the only thing holding the building up as Torch destroyed the foundation of the ENTIRE buidling. Furthermore, the issue states that her winds can level mountains...nice try, but give the lady her due!), smashing Magneto's force-field, redirecting the full power of Sienna Blaze, flying from the Outback to the Savage Land in Antarctica in no time flat, flying from New Orleans to Ney York in a matter of minutes etc, there is not given an mph for the speed she flies or the winds she is generating. What Marvel is doing is merely giving Storm's winds whatever strength it needs to have in order to pull these stunts. Its no different from a telekinetic lifting a heavy object or Magneto lifting a heavy metallic object.
I don't care how many issues you pull out stating what Storm's strongest winds are as the number are even contradicting themselves. The fact is on this board, we go by feats. In other words, if Storm's strongest winds are stated to be in one issue 75 miles per hour, but in another issue, we see her lifting a skyscraper, the 75 thing beings null and void. In all of Storm's handbook entries in the past, they have said 300 mph, however, they purposely took it out here as when you review what she has done, 300 mph is very silly to put at her max. Namor flies 60 mph according to the official handbook, yet he is given credit for much faster than that on these boards because of feats he has accomplished in canon. Same goes for his strength level. Handbook said 85 tons, yet he displayed class 100 strength stunts. Therefore, on these boards, we give him class 100 strength. Same holds true for Storm.
BTW, in that Rougestorm issue, it was not stated that those her the strongest winds she could generate. She stopped herself way before she reached the height of her power as she had ultimate, infinite power in her grasp. Stop getting desperate.
Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
That doesn't necissarily mean that she has the same control over the EMS as, say Magneto or Thor.It sounds more or less like an assumption from 2damloud and Rutgog that she'd be able to do the same things that beings that are considerably more powerful than her could do.
Thing is she should be MORE powerful than Magneto. Whether Marvel realizes it or not, given the power levels Storm has displayed, she's much stronger than he is. This is why I laugh so hard when you have a Magneto arc and there is Storm sitting on the lineup. I roll my eyes and know that the threat Magneto is going to pose in battle won't be credible. You'll never see Storm written at levels like she was in Hidden Years issue 7 or Uncanny 121 or when she fought Torch, etc in a Magneto arc. Well, in Uncanny 150, she did smash his force-field, so she got some of her due there. He only managed to win because she held and tried to talk him into surrender. Oh yeah, and it was forgotten in that issue that she is supposed to be immune to electricity and she can feel lightning strikes before they happen and she can feel manipulations in the EM fields.
