Who said anything about Liz going back to society? Who said she didn't have adventures? Only you, my dear.
Terry pointed out that at no time did Elizabeth ever give up her title of Pirate King, nor does he expect that she simply sat around waiting for Will and mourning and all that.
What he does think is that Elizabeth and Will have their own adventures, and that they work to find a way to bend the rules of the curse so they might be able to see each other before Will is released.
Doesn't sound like TnT expect Elizabeth to be a quiet, demure woman who sits and does embroidery while sobbing over her husband, nor is Will so noble and purpose-driven in his new career that he wouldn't fight to see the one that he loves.
Instead of seeing how limiting this is for either of them, you should be thinking on how many doors this opens up for them. Will and Elizabeth fought and over-came all the odds, even death. A little curse isn't going to stop them from doing whatever the hell they want to. 😄
Cheers to TnT for making such strong, vibrant characters who defy tragedy in such a breath-taking fashion.
well, I am not too interested in thinking up ways the noble pair bent the rules, overcame their difficult circumstances, etc. cause despite everything, they seriously don't interest me as a couple. still. a dramatic wedding and cheesy honeymoon scene don't make up for complete lack of relationship development.
What's Everyone's Problem?
Okay, I saw the movie and sat for 3 hours, but that's not how it felt. It felt like I was in the middle of an epic battle between pirates and the dark lords who threaten their way of life. If anyone feels differently, I offer this commentary to the film.
We have a beautiful, dark, haunting beginning that truly conveys Beckett's sinister personality. It gives us such a wonderful song that stays with you throughout the whole movie and introduces the Pieces of 8.
Next we're given a scenic, exotic locale where all fans of Liz can grin. She and Barbossa working on a project together? Who would have thunk it! And just when Sao Feng (great character!) seemed bad enough, in storms the navy! This is a wonderful first battle for our heroes and all of them fight gracefully, creatively, and bravely. Jack would be proud of them.
Speaking of Jack...I have to get my girliness out of the way first and say I was happy to finally see shirtless Jack. Now with that out of the way, this film gave Jack so many layers. His stream of consciousness is made known to the audience early, and if you think he doesn't grow, you weren't paying attention. And the reunion scene was just what it should have been: desperate and awkward. Tia has much more to do, and our trio and supporting cast are together again in full form. Is the electric guitar a little too much? Yes. It's grating and terrible, but no film is perfect.
So on we go to the betrayals. It's in character for pirates to betray. Keep in mind that our trio does watch out for each other, though. Will always makes sure Liz is taken care of, as does Jack. She only puts Will and/or Jack in danger when she TRUSTS them enough to know they'll get out of it and further the trio's interests. Also, if you think there are no sparrabeth moments, then we have to suck it up. Do I think T&T missed an opportunity? Hell yeah I do. But they did something rather wonderful with Jack and Liz's relationship that Hollywood still doesn't do: they have a man and a woman love each other deeply without being "in" love. For canon, we have to be happy with that. Our imaginations can run wild in videos and fanfictions. Be happy these two are as good with each other as they are. And remember, anything can happen in 4.
Bad guys? Weren't they deliciously evil? Beckett, I have one question: what mark did Jack leave on him? I didn't catch it or they didn't explain it, so I have a beef with that. Davy, talk about layers! His reunion with Tia is heartbreaking and somehow hot. He's a bastard, but I was so happy they both wanted to be with each other. Mercer, his death scene rocked! And Beckett, that's what he gets for branding Jack, hanging all those people, and killing Liz's dad. Watching Liz and her dad touched everyone, especially me.
So, what is left? James' death? Poignant wasn't it? He needed more screen time, but he fully redeemed himself. The Pirate Brethren? Teague was great, Jack voting for Liz: loved it. Will being a smart-ass? Perfection! The final battle? Ridiculously fun. I didn't want Liz and Will to marry and I would have changed that, but such is life.
So you see, the good far outweighs the bad. Savvy?
Oh! Wanted to share favorite parts.
Hoist the Colors- the song
Shirtless Jack- my indulgence
Rocking the boat.....and all the chaos that followed. I love our trio. They are best as a trio. They are THE trio, those snazzy pirates with their "squirt" guns.
Hmmm, ooh, I liked the fact Liz didn't have to kill Sao to get the Piece of 8. His death was just how he would have wanted it: honorable.
Norrington. Sigh. See my eulogy of him for how I felt about his role.
Hello? The Brethren's gathering? New minor characters? Meeting Jack's parents? Jack voting for Liz and her being excited to take the title? Barbossa shooting his gun in the air? The dog? Perfect!
Will and Beckett having tea only to have Davy rudely interrupt them. Man, that was cool. Will's such a smartass.
The stand off! Jack, Barbossa, and Liz on one side, Beckett, Will, and Davy on the other with the old Western music and then Jack and Will switch spots. Our trio knew exactly what everybody else in the trio was doing. Talk about minds in syncopation. This is why I love them.
Tia and Davy reunited...I found this hot. Forgive me. It was so full of sexual tension and chemistry. These two belong together.
Okay, the stabbing scene with my trio. It was so overwhelming. It was one of the most beautiful scenes in any film I've seen. There is so much love all the way around.
I just have to say, sparrabethers, it's okay. It didn't turn out the way I wanted to either, but don't let that spoil it for you. Think about it this way, after all Jack and Liz have been through, it's really saying something they share such a deep love without actually being "in" love. We have our fanfiction and vids, and anyone who didn't see love between the two is blind. I have to say they have a unique and sweet relationship, which is better than nothing.
I loved at world's end! such an amazing movie, the battles were awesome, all the plot twists, and i loved jack's craziness, and how everyone is betraying each other.
And , i'm not sparrabeth (or willabeth) but I think that Jack really cared about liz, i mean the only reason he saved will (when davy stabbed him) was 'cause lizzie was suffering. Cheer up! Sparrabeths
Ah, Willo, always calling everyone back to be reasonable and just. 🙂 Maybe I should have seen the film with you.
I suppose I will respond to your post... you gave a great analysis, and I would agree with most of it. I loved the Davy Jones/Calypso reunion scene, and actually, was wondering if you had some part in writing that bit, Willo. 😉 it sounded like your writing, and it was great.
My thing is, it was the overall FEEL of the film that really struck me the wrong way. I think a big chunk of that feeling was created by the music: which was dark, epic, etc... a far contrast to the bits of happy pirate music we got in films 1 and 2. (the music that played at the opening of shipwreck cove came closest to calling that fun back). See, I didn't start loving these films because they were epic or dark or intense. I started loving them because they were FUN--- amazing cheesy humors, characters you LOVE to watch interacting, fun music, adventure, ships, the open sea, freedom. So the fact that this film was all dark and gruesome, angst and heartbreak, really made me feel disappointed. Not an escapist's film.
Yeah, there were definitely specific parts that bothered me. I can't even talk about the "Tia growing to gulliver travel size" scene. No one explained the curse very well, there was no explanation of Beckett's mark OR more importantly, Jack's backstory with him (it would have taken 2 or 3 lines to establish Jack and Beckett's history with one another in relation to the slaves or whaever, thus grounding Jack's character in the story much more firmly, and making Beckett that much more evil. opportunity missed.) Will and Elizabeth's relationship progression just wasn't there-- they were fighting, then they were getting married, and it felt really abrupt and contrived. And yeah, I'm really disappointed that Jack and Elizabeth only got to speak like 3 words to each other the entire film, when their witty banter is what made the first two films so much fun for me. I think both of their characters lost something in the process.
And apart from swinging on a pendulum of madness, I didn't see growth of Jack's character. He ends the film the exact way he ended film 1. He's hanging out with wenches, he's drinking, he's on his own, and off on another adventure, on his own. Bad? No. Growth? No. Him making Will stab the heart is comparable to him saving Elizabeth from the water in film 1--- it's just what Jack does. So, I really don't see growth there, and to be honest, I would have liked to have seen some. More depth or something. I think it speaks to the lack of depth that they had shirtless jack and multiple jacks, (not that i have any inherent problem with either 😉) that somehow they tried to stretch his character width wise instead of depth wise.
I think Keira did a brilliant job in this film, considering a large part of what she had to do was scream over dying loved ones--- and it never ceased to cause me to tear up.
Did no one else constantly ask themselves if this had been written by fans? It felt like a fanfic to me: James and Elizabeth randomly kissing before he died, Tia bursting into crabs, the endless business meetings, the honeymoon scene? Maybe we've just written too many fanfics that were too good. 😉
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, logically, Willo, your post is great. But I still came away from the film feeling like I had been hit by a truck. There were parts I definitely enjoyed, I am not saying the film was total crap by any means. I am saying I felt totally traumatized and saddened by the direction it took. Which probably has a lot to do with where I am in life and what I was hoping the film would be.
I needed this- I really did. Thank you for your take on it all. I turned into a very large Jack/Liz fan after DMC- and it sounds so silly, but my heart was broken at the end of #3.
In a way I feel like a large portion of the movie is based on LIZ'S feelings. It is a strong reflection of the turbulent depths of a woman's heart- how easy it is to spout off about "one true love" when in reality it is so easy to experience strong love for more than one person, even though that is not the "fairy tale," and in the end- more than one love just can not work. From the opening scene in #1 we learn that Elizabeth will never be a typical 18th century woman. Excitement, passion, piracy... was in her blood. She was drawn to Will's goodness and sweet love, while another side of her- was drawn to Jack. I think maybe if I take a look at it from her POV- it might be easier. But for now, my heart is still in little pieces. Don't get me wrong- I adored the movie. It was wonderful- and honestly, wrung out emotions- discussion- thoughts running ragged... isn't that the sign of a SPECTACULAR movie? One that is thought-provoking? *sigh*
I will cling to the bits they threw to us Jack/Liz fans. The look on the beach... the completely "I'm trying to be casual and lighthearted but I so obviously love you too," ~It never would have worked out between us- keep trying to convince yourself darling- bit. *argh* and oh MAN you know they wanted to kiss... and the Liz clinging to Jack as he swung with her in his arms.... Oh I am so gonna cry again!
Ok~ Just went back through this post and someone wrote that they did something not done very often, showed two people who loved each other while not being able to be actively "in love." *SIGH* This is so absolutely true. Maybe that was the point- and my WORD did they do a good job of it. Aren't we all left realizing that, had it come to it, Jack would have put his life on the line for Liz, just as Will would have- and if I remember correctly, did? I have to see this again- and soon. There was just so much action- but a LOT of emotion. Both Jack and Will felt protective of Liz. Jack just knew he was not right for Liz, and I think in a way- this knowledge of his was another show of his trying to protect her. Jack knew the life he led was not the life for her- he's a pirate!!! He knew Liz could have been swayed- but I think Jack loves her enough to let her go free...
BUT- what if? What if there is a #4? THINK about the possibilities- If they choose to "revive" Jack and Liz. There is the possibility of so much romantic tension. Even with a child that belongs to Will. Think the same vein- Jack trying to protect Liz... while he still loves her. I dunno- maybe there will be a #4 and it will push Liz and Will to the side and concentrate on a different story line- but I for one wish we could all work together to write a #4 because oh my gosh could I come up with some excellent ideas... and I know all of you could also.
Originally posted by calypso
I liked it actually, but there are some exceptions to everything and the one thing I did not like was that Jack was portrayed as being intimidated or borderline coward after being rescued. Like he couldn't even command his ship when Barbossa was around. Maybe not that but like a little boy who couldn't get it together. I don't know, it is so hard to explain. Maybe he played it too much like a dufuss, which to me was not the confident Jack we met sailing into Port Royal in a drowning dingy.Basicly I think that Elizabeth knew at the moment Jack voted to make her Pirate King how much he loved her and she didn't want to address that issue because she loved Will so much. She tried in a Jack-way to make amends at the end when she started to kiss Jack good-bye and he crossed his arms and said something about once was enough for him.She also told him it would never have worked between them and that was the Lizzy version of what Jack said to her at Fort Royal before he fell over the parapet in COTBP. I felt that her look at him in that moment said "another place another time Jack it would be you and me."
I have tickets for tonight, too so, I guess I will try to either re-evaluate my opinion or develope some new ones.
My first reaction was I really liked it. If I were not such a Sparrabether then I might have liked it even better. There was clapping and chearing at the end in the theatre and those ppl probably don't ship either way.
I feel like Norrington's death was unnecessary. They could have used him for another plot twist or betrayal rather than kill him off. And the last scene w/him and Lizzy was too campy.
The last scene before the credits with Will and Lizzy saying goodbye was just incredible. As he was leaving and trying to put on a boot he said he needed his other one too and the camera pans to Lizzy's leg with the boot on it and then Will takes the boot off and caresses her leg very lovingly. There left no doubt for me whose child was with Lizzy in the final shot.I think the thing I am having trouble with is that there were 3 movies and it just doesn't work for me with Jack's feelings in mind, but last night when I got home, I realized that if you look at 2 and 3 as basicly one film then it is easier to see the progression of W/L rather than J/L.
DMC stopped in the middle of the progression with the intents of making us dangle for a J/E ending, like stopping in the middle of a scene. But, if you were to see them together, then you would realize there never was a J/L ending in the making. I guess when I realized that is when I finally cried myself to sleep last night. Talk about Pirates. This whole trilogy just pirated my time, feelings and emotions.
IMHO if you can put J/L totally aside, then it may be one of the most incredable movies you will ever see in your lifetime because the plots, twists, scenes, dialogue, actors, characters and Johnny Depp are the best. That's what I am going to do tonight.
Maybe it will work this time.
This is kinda funny 🙂 http://youtube.com/watch?v=QDado7CeLBM