Why No Love for Liz & Jack? *spoilers*

it is a GREAT movie.
the story is phenomenal...

For me, i get the feeling that Disney may of had something to do with the whole will/liz/jack thing.

I mean;
Have we ever seen a disney film where the main lead female falls inlove with one man, and then ends up with another one??

Nope.
Thats not the traditional disney way.

Disney can't have the female lead go galivanting off with the next man she sees...it just doesn't happen.

Also, some journalists have reviewed the film and said that the director and the story has set out to make 'piracy look fun' ...

well DUH lol.

If people want to watch a film about piracy being cruel and terrifying then they would watch a documentary lol

right. It makes Piracy look very.. appealing.

Originally posted by T.Maria
it is a GREAT movie.
the story is phenomenal...

For me, i get the feeling that Disney may of had something to do with the whole will/liz/jack thing.

I mean;
Have we ever seen a disney film where the main lead female falls inlove with one man, and then ends up with another one??

Nope.
Thats not the traditional disney way.

Disney can't have the female lead go galivanting off with the next man she sees...it just doesn't happen.

Also, some journalists have reviewed the film and said that the director and the story has set out to make 'piracy look fun' ...

well DUH lol.

If people want to watch a film about piracy being cruel and terrifying then they would watch a documentary lol

I know that, you're right. But there was no resolution for Sparrabeth. There were no dialogues explaining their feelings, what they thought, all Sparrabeth scenes have been deleted, and AWE's scenario lacks a lot of explanations... That's why this film deceived me...

maybe because they realize that digging deeper wouldn't be the disney way. they left us with too many 'what ifs'. ever saw a disney movie that showed a lotta stuff like that? except for DMC, nada.

Does anyone have the script? please.. e-mail it to me! pm me for me to give you the right e-mail.. pleaaassseee! *begs*

Have any of you been in love with a teacher or professor or the guy who was at the gym leading the arobics class? Well, the same concept applies here. You love the guy, but you go home to your boyfriend, husband, lover, etc. These outside encounters all add another deminsion to your overall love life, whether you realize it or not. Lizzy just tapped into Jack's basic instincts as a man and boosted his ego while trying to accomplish what her agenda was, "...to save Will." IMHO she admired Jack, did not trust him in the beginning, but grew to recognize his method of solving problems and ultimately respected him.
She always came back to him to help in every situation she found herself in til the end and Will was stabbed and then Jack, being Jack did the right thing and whisked her away to safety. IMHO she will always look to Jack for assistance, not out of some deep romantic love, but because Jack ultimately always finds ways to solve all the real problems. I wonder what would have happened if she had let Jack get them off of the island he was governor of instead of her taking matters into her hands. Hummmmm might have been a totally different outcome.

I'm still mad over them killing off Norri the way they did. I still think they should have had him kill Mercer, escape with Lizzy, get picked up by the rest of the crew of the Endeavor, take command and try to stop Beckett's madness. I hope one of the green flashes at the end was for him, too.

Oh, has anyone noticed that in COTBP Lizzy introduces herself to Barbossa as Elizabeth Turner and at the end of AWE as she is leaving the boat, Barbossa addresses her as Mrs. Turner.

Just thought I would pop that in. hahahahaha

all i can say right now...is ugggghhhhh.......i hope when i see it i will feel better....and as some of you say bridge dmc and awe together and make some sense of it....

Originally posted by T.Maria
it is a GREAT movie.
the story is phenomenal...

For me, i get the feeling that Disney may of had something to do with the whole will/liz/jack thing.

I mean;
Have we ever seen a disney film where the main lead female falls inlove with one man, and then ends up with another one??

Nope.
Thats not the traditional disney way.

Disney can't have the female lead go galivanting off with the next man she sees...it just doesn't happen.

Also, some journalists have reviewed the film and said that the director and the story has set out to make 'piracy look fun' ...

well DUH lol.

If people want to watch a film about piracy being cruel and terrifying then they would watch a documentary lol

Right...but I was so hoping Disney would break the mold with this one, just as they broke the mold with the whole entire thing....the gore, blood..and jack stabbing good jack...that was really bizarre.....and violent...

anyhoo...we've said this before the only time i can think of disney having the girl go off with the second man she falls in love with and not the first is Pochohontas...cause in the first one she falls in love with John Smith and then in Pocho 2 she falls in love with John Rolfe....and John SMith sets her free, telling her he realizes they have grown apart and have different interests now...and i was kinda hoping the same would be true for this one (i know, i know, Pocho was based on a true story, but still Disney decided to go through with the 2nd one that has her fall in love with someone else)...I was so hoping Will would set Liz free to go roam the world with jack...

I guess i just like seeing jack and liz kiss...maybe that's what got me hooked....kinky, I know....

Yea Tigers, how about I meet you at the gym and we find a hunky buff dude to do arobics with. hehehehe Oh, my heart is already racing. Maybe he will look like CJS.

i really dont care what anyone says Jack and Lizzie care for each other and I agree with Lovethemtigers....i wish Disney would have broken the mold with this Movie....i mean they did by a simulated sex scene between Will and Liz and the rest of the things that tigers said!!

I think part of the reason why so many critics gave it bad reviews is that Ultimately ppl want to see Jack HAPPY!! and that wasnt a very good ending for him!!

I Love Jack and Liz and they need to be together!! 🙁 anybody read any GOOD Sparrabeth fan fics lately?? im in need of 1!

There is resolution for Sparrabeth; just not the kind that you wanted.

What I think is great about the relationships between all three of the main characters is that they don't really have to talk to each other, they sort of just work through their issues on their own.

Take Will and Jack, for example. They basically only have one scene alone together, and they talk as if nothing had really happened between them. I think the LACK of discussing issues actually shows how strong the bond is between them, just as it is between Jack and Liz.

What is comes down to though, is that Jack felt that Elizabeth had wronged him greatly, and any love/lust/admiration he had for her was gone after suffering in the Locker.

He states it then, and by the time the Bretheren Court rolls around he's softened toward her, and he votes for her to be King. He gave Will his compass, something quite precious to him, and he trusted Will with it.

I think in these films actions speak louder than words. 😄

surreal, there is no actual resolution for sparrabeth in AWE.

There was resolution for willabeth and norribeth.
THEY both had important scenes with eachother.

Scenes that gave the ships closure and allowed the audience to realise where it was going.

Sparrabeth?
The reason that most movie-goers went to see AWE (because they were intregued by the fact that jack had died and were wondering exactly what liz's motives were) was because of the pair.

hell, we didnt even get a converation where liz actually says shes sorry, or gives some kind of recognition to what shes done!

She does when will confronts her...but theres no resolution there for liz and jack because they dont speak...they just ackowledge eachother.

The only other scene we get is at the end with the "keep teling yourself that, darlin'" line....

And even that has no closure!
Whats it supposed to mean?

Does jack know that liz harbours feelings for him? or is he simply joking with her?

We didnt get any closure at all in the sense that we would be happy with the outcome, because no one really understands WHY the whole dynamic of the relationship was dropped.

Try explaining this to my 8 yearold brother, who was smart enough to realise that jack is the only one who makes liz feel free...

Those were his exact words.
He couldtn understand why jack didnt get the girl.
And this is an 8 yearold we're talking about.

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
And sadly, I think you are correct..the kiss of death was the end of Jack and Liz...she chose Will and decided to kill Jack and get rid of the temptation...and once they rescued Jack...he was no longer vexed by her since she had pretty much proven to him that she would do anything to be with Will.....so, my biggest fear all along was realized...Jack Sparrow of all things was a victim of unrequited love......

Liz never cared for jack beyond Lust.....

then, why oh WHY did they have her almost kiss him again if that kiss was the end of Jack/Liz..its like "oh its the end, she doesnt want him".."oh no look! its not! She still wants him"

I think people would have accepted the movie 3 story more if she DIDNT go in to kiss Jack again at te end of movie 2 when leaving him..STUPID move by the writers IMO. It made it look like there was to be much more J/E to come..

that kiss WOULD have been closure to J/E had it not been for the lip graze after..it then became a tease

Okay, I have to say, the relationship is resolved. According to T&T, it was resolved at the end of DMC. I'll always love sparrabeth, so I'm looking at the canon J/E relationship here. I think in DMC, people assumed they were an item. Beckett certainly did. He fishes for information from Liz in DMC and then from Jack in AWE. Neither person really reveals too much. But I think they both start to think about the possibilities. Jack's come across a woman who can beat him, who is gorgeous, smart, independent, and competent. Of course he's going to contemplate having a relationship with her. Liz is flattered by it and probably does toy with the idea of having him. So they banter, kind of explore what the other has to offer. T&T say Liz's kiss is to save Will AND it lets her slake her lust. Yes, she did lust after Jack. Who wouldn't? I'm engaged and I find him a sexy beast. But she slakes her lust there, meaning she gets it out of her system. That is the motivation behind the almost-kiss.

Disclaimer: I want sparrabeth. I will always think it's better. This is the explanation of what actually happens.

So they have this almost-kiss and it's hot and both seem turned on by it, at least a little. But, Liz makes her decision. Jack respects it and is dazed, and I think he still thinks he can get out of it and give her a little slap on the wrist for outplaying him once again. But no. He dies.

Which brings us to her guilt. By this time, I think she's established a strong friendship with Jack and is in danger of losing it. So we set sail on our journey. I don't think romantic thoughts are in her head. She just wants him back in her life- alive-and hopes to God he won't hate her.

Which brings us to Jack. Well, his mind is everywhere. I'm sure of all the multiple Jacks running around one of them is thinking of taking an imaginary Liz right there on the deck. But he's dead, going nuts, and it's all her fault. Notice he doesn't look all that happy to see her once they reunite. But then a magic thing happens. It blows over. This relationship is too strong, and then the tragedy of Liz losing her dad seems to bring them to at least back to where they were.

It's a strong friendship. When he picks her as pirate king and she trades him for Will, they both know everything worked out how they wanted it. They can depend on one another and can work with one another. It's a more comfortable relationship that's more casual than it was and I think it's because all the romantic confusion is gone. Hasn't anyone here ever had a really great friend of the opposite sex? I think that's the closure of the relationship. The "it never would have worked between us" is an inside joke between them. It's something they can laugh about together. I personally would have preferred to see them at least hug, but hey, she's the Pirate King. He's going to come visit her a lot. It's not completely goodbye. I know, fellow sparrabethers, it's not the ending we hoped for. But appreciate a deep friendship for what it is. They went from strangers, to being forced to work together, to a fledgling friendship, to fliritng with romance, to almost wrecking it all, and they not only salvaged their relationship, but improved it. Talk about strong feelings. Besides, the Swann and the Sparrow are linked together, not only through each other but through Will.

You didn't get a convo because what would she say?

"Sorry I fed you to the Kraken? Sorry I used your attraction to me against you?"

Words are meaningless in a case like that. She came to get Jack, she felt guilty. Jack felt bad about it but eventually he got over it. He demonstrated this, she demonstrated how sorry she was by bringing him back.

"I kissed you Jack, but I don't love you." Is that what you want to hear? "Lizzie, I would have loved you but you killed me so I'm not sure I even like you anymore."

What in the world would have worked for you? It's unnecessary and would have taken away from the film.

Since it's obvious that Will and Elizabeth were desperately wanting each other during the third film (even if they were mad at each other), it would have been trite to have Jack and Elizabeth talk about their feelings.

As for Elizabeth leaning in to kiss Jack, I will point out that she in fact DID NOT kiss him again. That she left him to die. What do you think that meant? You've seen how Elizabeth is; if she wants something badly enough, she will fight for it.

I think a lot of the J/E scenes were cut from the final pic of AWE..in the script I have there' a WHOLE lot more J/e crap going on in it.

I personally DONT think their relationship was originaly supposed to be closed on the deck of the pearl..in the AWE script I have which was written feb 2006, It straight away suggests Liz's feelings for jack when she hugs him and Jack's feelings for her when talking to becket..I posted that particular scene on another thread.

Its like Keira said "no I'm not coming back" so they changed the whole thing..there was originally meant to be more J/E in there I can confirm that.

and there were even various lines in DMC AND AWE that suggested the kid would be Jack's and Liz's

I'm not even kidding here..it was too late to remove the child lines involving Jack/Liz from DMC...but they were removed from AWE it seems??? along with a load of other J/E stuff.

You're stretching, LovelyOne.

One thing that the writers mentioned in an interview is that in the two films, they wanted to take Will and Elizabeth's relationship into a more mature direction.

They never mentioned Jack and Elizabeth. Jack and Elizabeth was never meant to happen. It was always meant to be Will and Elizabeth together.

Yes, you enjoy the J/E scenes, but that does not mean that they are more canon.

And for all that J/E scenes were cut from the film, so were lots of scenes with Norrington/Davy, Will and Jack, Jack and Beckett...etc.

I'm not kidding you either; lots of stuff was cut for the film.

They should have made that a heck of a lot clearer with DMC dont you think?? I mean the majority people obviously didnt quite "get it" after watching DMC..a people's choice award..swarm after swarm of J/E fans

I think DMC was poorly written in that respect..very poorly written. It was never clear to an audience, this is coming from a film studies student who has been taught how to read a film, I'm not the only film studies student on this forum who read it that way. The majority did...

T&T have to constantly explain themselves about the whole situation..if they made the darn thing clear in the first place they wouldn't have to. Poor writing.

Originally posted by starfish
As I sit here attempting to rationalize exactly why there was absolutely no relationship building between Jack and Elizabeth in this third movie, I am looking back on the end of Dead Man's Chest. If we think of these last two movies and one long film, then maybe we have to look closely at the choice Elizabeth made in leaving Jack Sparrow for dead on the Black Pearl, no TRAPPING him for death, when the Kracken was coming for them. All through DMC there is tension and banter between Jack and Liz, yes, and that darn compass- the compass keeps pointing Jack to Liz and Liz to Jack. But has anyone thought that the end of DMC signified the end of Jack and Liz?

You know the compass pointed to Jack when Liz had it after Jack just pissed her off. The compass pointed to Jack when Beckett had it. Does that mean Beckett and Jack are going to be lovers? No it just means Beckett wanted Jack to kill him.

And on the island Liz stopped and turned to see the compass was pointing in the direction Jack was standing at but it was in the same direction as the chess. When Jack looked at it it pointed to Liz but did he care? No. His mind jumped to the chess. So that really shows Jack really didn't want Liz.