Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh god your point was destroyed a long time ago and you continued it. Tobin is a fallable 3rd party character, and if Nihilus kept the ship intact, it would have been destroyed when he was. The end. Revan>Nihilus
HAHA. Licensed game > Darth Sexy's flawed reasoning.
Nihilus lifted his fleet out of Malachor's mass shadows. And as far as keeping his ship together who says it has to fall apart once he dies? I don't think the structural damage would result in the ship falling to pieces, it would merely mean it stops functioning i.e. can't travel through hyperspace, can't support life for space travel etc etc.
The Exile kills Nihilus and abandons ship shortly after, I don't think there's any time to show the ships inability for travel seeing as it's destroyed by the Republic.
Originally posted by Allankles
I dislike it when people mention: "if so-and-so didn't have that power characer x would beat him". How about recognizing that that kind of reasoning goes both ways i.e. if Revan didn't have the force character x would beat him. That's the power the character was written with, it's as much a part of his character's identitity as the skull mask. So please save the "if he didn't have this" arguments.As far as his ship not falling apart, I don't know. It might have been an oversight, or there are details about the methods Nihilus used that haven't been elaborated. You'd have to ask the writers and designers yourself.
Yea, you have a point and i did said without a drain, that Revan would defeat him, of course Nihilus is stronger with his drain.
Originally posted by Allankles
HAHA. Licensed game > Darth Sexy's flawed reasoning.
Nihilus lifted his fleet out of Malachor's mass shadows. And as far as keeping his ship together who says it has to fall apart once he dies? I don't think the structural damage would result in the ship falling to pieces, it would merely mean it stops functioning i.e. can't travel through hyperspace, can't support life for space travel etc etc.
The Exile kills Nihilus and abandons ship shortly after, I don't think there's any time to show the ships inability for travel seeing as it's destroyed by the Republic. [/B]
Right, good excuse.
Originally posted by Allankles
Please, Nihilus is on another level. He's NJO Luke/DE Sidious level, while Revan is about Dooku level there's no contest. Nihilus is god-like, Revan isn't.
What does "NJO Luke and DE Sidious" mean? I am sorry, but I do not know what those abbreviations mean.
Anyway,
In the KOTOR universe, Revan>than all other characters....period. That is the way the game was intended and you all know it.
If we went by actual game play...both my exile characters were much more powerful than my Revan character. So in the nice little world I created exile>revan>darth nihilis>darth scion>kreia>malak.
If any of disagree, then it should be solely based on your characters actual stats. weeeeee!!!1111!!1! LOLZ
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You're right. And the licensed game makes Revan more powerful. Way to embarass yourself.Nihilus lifted A SHIP, prove to me there was a fleet. Give me a logical reason for the ship to stay in tact if he kept it in tact, after he dies. Logic, common sense, deductive reasoning, all against you.
Right, good excuse.
What are you harping on about? The game never says Revan is more powerful, nor does it imply it. Nihilus is a force wielding planet destroyer for crying out, it doesn't get any more uber. Logic has never been your strong suit Darth Sexy.
The game says he lifted his FLEET, it never says he ONLY lifted his ship anywhere in the game. He lifted his fleet, the proof is in the idea that Tobin knew where Nihilus took his fleet from and by what means he used to take it. You ask me for proof? The game categorically states that he tore his fleet from the mass shadows of Malachor.
As for his ship, it had suffered severe structural damage and shouldn't have been able to function as a star faring vessel, yet it did.
The point that seemed to fly over your head, is that the structural malfunctions don't need to necessarily equate to a ship falling to pieces, merely a ship incapable of travel and incapable of supporting life for space travel.
The ship wasn't some kind of sand castle to fall apart at the instance of Nihilus death, otherwise the Exile and co. wouldn't have needed proton core's to detonate it, nor would they have needed to fire turbolasers at it. You're defeating your own reasoning with these questions.
Nihilus ship shouldn't have been able to fly through hyperspace yet it did, it shouldn't have been able to support life for space traveling yet it did, this is where Nihilus held his ship together. Preventing it from getting reaped apart in hyperspace etc etc
Originally posted by Allankles
The game says he lifted his FLEET, it never says he ONLY lifted his ship anywhere in the game. He lifted his fleet, the proof is in the idea that Tobin knew where Nihilus took his fleet from and by what means he used to take it. You ask me for proof? The game categorically states that he tore his fleet from the mass shadows of Malachor.
I'd like to ask for proof that what Tobin said was not hyperbole. For instance, can you please explain where this "fleet" went, taking the nature of Nihilus and his goals into account, and how many ships were part of this fleet.
Originally posted by IOUTobin wasnt there when nihilus took the ravager from the wells and he is a fallible character. The loading screen states differently as nihilus only pulled his ship out of the well
tobin quite clearly says that he tore his fleet along with the ravager out of the mass shadows of malachor
Tobin wasnt there when nihilus took the ravager from the wells and he is a fallible character.
so what? until it can be proven that hes either uninformed or lying in this case, what he says should be accepted as a fact
The loading screen states differently as nihilus only pulled his ship out of the well
lack of elaboration?
Originally posted by IOU
so what? until it can be proven that hes either uninformed or lying in this case, what he says should be accepted as a factlack of elaboration?
See that's where youre wrong Noobaris. Tobin is a fallible 3rd party character so we don't have to disprove anything he said. He has no concept of the force or force abilities, so his opinion is as irrelevant as the Rodian's opinion stating that "The ground shook everytime Exar Kun walked".
well lets see, clearly he understood the force well enough to know that nihilus pulled the ship out of the mass shadows (which is confirmed by the loading screen) yet its that much of a stretch to believe that hed be informed enough to know whether nihilus pulled the fleet out as well? im sorry, but we actually have evidence that suggest tobin was pretty well informed in this case, and he clearly wasnt lying, so the whole 'fallible third party' excuse wont save you this time sexy
No Noobaris, he apparently understood that Nihilus did something like pull HIS ship out of the mass shadows, but he doesn't know how. Sorry Noobaris this stupid theory by the Nihilus fanboys has been debunked time and time again. Tobin isn't an authority on the force so he has no idea what is going on. Try harder.
Originally posted by IOU
people throw that term around without knowing what it means far too much
Well, rest assured I do know what it means, and can use it appropriately. Tobin mentioning a "whole fleet" being pulled off of Malachor is subject to hyperbole; it's a piece of explicit exposition that isn't neccessary to the plot, yet it establishes Nihilus as a worthy villain, making his defeat seem all the more glorious to the Exile and thus the player. The same be said of many comments made in the KOTOR saga. They do not neccessarily speak truth, yet are examples of the writers liberously using hyperbole to enhance the drama that is there narrative.
tobin quite clearly says that he tore his fleet along with the ravager out of the mass shadows of malachor
His fleet being what? No one has dared to clarify the size of this fleet and subsequently, all we ever see of this fleet is the Ravagar and squadrons of Sith Fighters. Must we assume, to contradict mine and Darth Sexy's logic, that a hundred Sith capitol ships wait just outside the Telos system, all personally pulled (at the same time of course!) from Malachor's gravity well? Because of course that would comply with the thought that Nihilus, because of his little Phantom of the Opera mask, is an all powerful, seminal demi god?
There are no other capitol ships seen nor mentioned in KOTOR 2. More importantly, given Nihilus' nature, why would Nihilus need a fleet? The destruction of Katarr showed he had no need of a large, planetary bombardment, and that he could simply devour the planet.
Why, if you are susceptible to a primal hunger like Nihilus', waste time dragging a huge fleet out of a gravity well, when you don't even need it?
Point in hand, even if Tobin's word can be taken as fact, we do not know how large nor small the fleet was; thus making this a very unreliable point to make as an assertion of Nihilus' power.