Darth Traya VS Darth Sidious

Originally posted by Manslayer
That explains it, alot but as i said, He wouldnt be as strong as he was on the SF had he been some where else. On the SF he has all the resources to back him up, Would he have them at lets say if he fought bane on vjun? Doubt it

Originally posted by Manslayer
And the simple point i was trying to make is like what iv been saying, He isnt so powerful in other areas

But he is still very powerful even without the support of Star Forge and he is among the KOTOR elites.

Originally posted by Manslayer
If malak is so great, why would he even need to stun revan in the first

Originally posted by Manslayer
and before that force push him so malak can flee.

Originally posted by Manslayer
We have no idea how it fared but from what iv seen i doubt he actually "handled" revan until he stunned him

Originally posted by Manslayer
I will not be surpised if Kriea instakills his sorry @ss even before the fight begins! Now why i am not suprised you said this? You obviously are unhappy that sidious > kreia canonically and ohh yea just because it worked on a few jedi who has yet to do anything impressive?

- Revan vs Malak on Leviathan (Malak won)
- Sidious vs Mace Windu (Windu got the edge)
- Maul vs Obi-Wan (Kenobi won)

And instakill is a very deadly sith technique. We do not know that how it can be countered.

In this fight (Traya vs Sidious): Timing of an attack will decide the true victor.

Originally posted by Manslayer
But would it worked on some one more powerful than her? Hell no

The combined power of those 3 Jedi Masters > Jedi Exile

Now you can imagine.

Originally posted by Manslayer
and kavar did say he lost to malak in a saber duel(i may be wrong)

Originally posted by Manslayer
Right and sidious beats malak in every aspect of the force. [/B]

But when the word "Sidious" is used in a SW related subject, we refer to a person, who is > all the Sith Lords before him. So this does not surprise me!

Originally posted by Manslayer
And for what reason must malak stun revan?

z0mg, why did Traya instakill those three Jedi masters?

z0mg, why did Count Dooku use Force lightning on Anakin Skywalker?

z0mg, why did Darth Sidious use Force lightning on Yoda?

The fact that he used a Force power is largely irrelevant in regards to how the match went, as in most cases, this means little to jack shit (and since there's no evidence to supports your position (that Malak was getting curbstomped) one can only assume that it isn't the case). But, I noticed that instead of merely saying "u r rite, advent", you have to make an argument.

Why? Saying that Revan "beat Malak no sweat" isn't even logical, based on the evidence, and reasoning presented, much less dialogue and actions in the source material.

Its a possibility that malak couldnt handle revan at all thus why he had to stun him.

Which is also unsupported. If he was dominating the match as you so clearly stated, then this shouldn't have even happened. Even assuming that it did, there'd be no reason to not wait for the effects to wear off, and then destroy Malak.

Yes this is my [completely unsupported] assumption so its not proven but ill concede

"But ill concede"? You act as if you had a choice to begin with, your claim was blatant bullshit!

Maybe not so

Definitely not.

There's only a few select individuals (Gideon, AcStyles, LS, Nai, and myself) who even possess capable reasoning skills. The rest are either quasi intellectuals, or plain morons.

but not till you see what the people in the past typed, Like ragnos wtf pwning DE sidious

I've already reviewed nearly every single line from days past, so I've already seen such things.

So, because they believed X capable of kicking the ever living shit out of Y, they're not more intelligent, use more logic, etc? Because you say so? Don't be ridiculous, Manslayer. One single member of the Antediluvians was able to make a post that was much, much more sound and logical than half the people on this board now combined.

It doesn't matter who they believed to be the greatest (as there wasn't as many sources floating around back then as there is now), because when looking at who won the arguments, they did. It doesn't matter if they're wrong now, because they could make better arguments then. It's that simple.

Anyways, I'm done. This is irrelevant to the point, and off-topic.

Just one thing to add, when carth refered to malak could have killed them he could have refered to the time when malak was going to strike revan down after revan got stunned.

Nonsense, he's clearly saying that in regards to their overall encounter, as he continually says the same thing (and includes "us", not "Revan"😉, and to Bastila as well when she goes to confront him in Revan's stead.

The fact is, it's not that what Carth says is absolute or 100% correct, it's the matter that it speaks to the contrary (that Revan "beat Malak, no sweat"😉.

Because i dont see how malak is stronger than revan

Except Carth clearly believes he is, as does Bastila. Otherwise her sacrifice would've been needless. Ergo, it speaks contrary to your ridiculous assertion.

Using your nitpicking that passes for logic, I could say ask you why Bastila didn't simply hold off Malak, wait for Revan, and kill him? That would, after all, be the most logical route. He didn't really need to leave the ship if what you're saying was true.

The fact is, it's not that what Carth says is absolute or 100% correct, it's the matter that it speaks to the contrary (that Revan "beat Malak, no sweat"😉.

especially if revan could kill malak on the starforge

See above; this means jack shit.

Advent is right. And as I remember the battle between Revan and Malak in the Star Forge was described as an epic one. Therefore we can guess Revan did have a hard time defeating him.

P.s. If someone knows the source, please help me out here, because I'm sure there is one.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Malak did not Force Pushed Revan. He actually [b]Force Whirlwind him and that too in a place where there was no wind. This was also a noticeable feat. Now, how many people have you seen in Star Wars who could actually dominate Revan in a Force contest like that?
[/B]

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Revan actually dominated the fight from the start but Malak soon turned the tide through his impressive Force Mastery. Though Revan was also a bit emotionally disturbed after the revelation, so that might have limited his focus and Malak took advantage.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I do consider Sidious to be the most powerful Sith Lord in the history of the Star Wars but the problem is that the most powerful person does not wins in all the situations, in a duel. Want to see some examples?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

- Revan vs Malak on Leviathan (Malak won)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

- Sidious vs Mace Windu (Windu got the edge)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

- Maul vs Obi-Wan (Kenobi won)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And [b]instakill is a very deadly sith technique. We do not know that how it can be countered.[/B]

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

In this fight (Traya vs Sidious): [b]Timing of an attack will decide the true victor.[/B]

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

She decimated 3 powerful Jedi masters with it. What else do you want to see?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

The combined power of those 3 Jedi Masters > Jedi Exile

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I won't be surprised that if Kavar lost to someone as powerful and aggressive as Malak. We do not know much about this fight apart from the news that Malak totally dominated Kavar in that fight and Kavar had to flee for his life.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I agree with this assertion. But remember that Malak himself also had become more powerful then he ever was before by the end of JCW.

I agree that he is not nearly unstoppable in other areas.

But he is still very powerful even without the support of Star Forge and he is among the [b]KOTOR elites. [/B]

Originally posted by Manslayer
Sidious lightning turned 3 acolytes to ashes yet his lightning couldnt kill mace windu a high level jedi master as fast as he did to those acolytes and storm troopers

You do realize that, of course, the time line for these events makes your comparison faulty? Darth Sidious' power in the aforementioned displays of Force lightning came twenty years after Revenge of the Sith. His strength in the Force has grown vastly since.

I thought he destroyed those 3 acolytes shortly after ROTS, when he was testing Vader's abilities.

Sadly thats only ON THE STAR FORGE moron, and its only amplfying his powers you dumbshit.

Wait your so stupid to understand this so ill give dumbshit a metaphor. You know the sears towers? It had antennas to make the building higher but it DOESNT count because its not part of the structure get it? Same with malak and the starforge

You are defying canon right now you assaholic. You just said "Oh glentract ill suck your dick and hope you win the debate" which meant that you wanted him to win the debate of kreia > ROTS sidious which is AGAINST CANON!

Originally Posted by darthsith19
(I do think he would likely beat Traya, however, by a little).

You were saying?

Dont like canon huh?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I thought he destroyed those 3 acolytes shortly after ROTS, when he was testing Vader's abilities.

Well, you thought wrong then. Resurrection takes place in 0 BBY.

Definitely not.

There's only a few select individuals (Gideon, AcStyles, LS, Nai, and myself) who even possess capable reasoning skills. The rest are either quasi intellectuals, or plain morons.

This is Advent's way of saying that our love is still passionate. 😛

Originally posted by Manslayer
Dominate? Are you trying to make me laugh? Malak lands a 2 force attacks = to malak dominating revan? Wow thats pretty good logic friend.

A) Force Whirlwind
B) Force Stun

Now when both of these attacks were launched, Revan failed to counter these Force moves and became a victim twice.

Now what will you call this? A success of Revan?

As it is mentioned in a source, Malak was said to wield devastating Dark Side power, which means that he was strong in the Force and his Force Mastery was indeed impressive.

Originally posted by Manslayer
No, its what sidious can do to make him win

Originally posted by Manslayer
Malak just stunned revan and you yourself said he could be disturbed emotionally after the revelation which gave malak the advantage

Just remember that what happened during Vader vs Obi-Wan scenario in the Mustafar. Vader despite being better lost because of not thinking clearly or being emotionally disturbed. Still Vader tried hard against Obi-Wan. So Revan's case might be similar to that of Vader during his fight on Leviathan against the Dark Lord.

But Malak remained focused and managed to over-power Revan in the end.

And "Malak just stunned Revan" is the lamest comment, I have yet read in this thread. You make it sound like that every Tom, Dick and harry can stun Revan in a single combat? 🙄

Think about it! What level of Force Mastery would be required to overpower a person (who is considered to be the single greatest warrior of his age)? This is why I believe that Malak is among the elites of KOTOR period because he is capable of performing impressive feats at the right time. Only a little focus is required to understand them.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Vaapad, And strength in the force doesnt necessarily mean good in a saber duel, Despite not fighting for 13 years him being able to slay 3 of the elites is impressive and if you read NJO, luke whos the force god couldnt kill lord nyax in a saber duel

Originally posted by Manslayer
Maul underestimated him period as anakin did to obi wan

Originally posted by Manslayer
Big deal its a simple force drain which kreia mastered, Force shield shall i say? Oh and who knows weather it will work on sidious since he is much greater than kreia in power.

And a Force Drain technique can work against anybody unless the defender knows how to defend against it.

Originally posted by Manslayer
By your assumption i might as well say vader executes force crush before sidious and thus vader wins

Originally posted by Manslayer
Not really since its unproven weather the force drain will instantly kill sidious. Sidious lightning turned 3 acolytes to ashes yet his lightning couldnt kill mace windu a high level jedi master as fast as he did to those acolytes and storm troopers

It is more like a 60/40 ratio. Sidious has 60 percent chances of success and Traya has 40 percent. This is just a guess however.

Originally posted by Manslayer
They werent "Powerful" Vrook and zez hasnt done anything impressive while kavar is a superb lightsaber duelist who got bested by malak as he claimed.

And Malak is among the top duelists of his time. Ask Drew, if you have any doubts.

Originally posted by Manslayer
If you chose the alternate path which isnt canon, the exile took all of them down showing the exile is capable of good strength, Again they werent powerful

Originally posted by Manslayer
Malak > kavar and sidious > malak. I doubt kreias drain will work on sidious

Which Sidious is this, anyways?

Originally posted by Gideon
Which Sidious is this, anyways?

Originally posted by Gideon
This is Advent's way of saying that our love is still passionate. 😛

Advent always forgets me. But that's ok, when you look this good, people tend to forget perfection.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Advent always forgets me. But that's ok, when you look this good, people tend to forget perfection.

Lmao, you bastard. Advent and I are in love.

That's ok, but me not being included in the select few who have some reasoning skills, makes me think Advent wants what she can't have. Actually I don't care, I look better than all of you. Did I ever know that I'm your hero? I'm everything you wish you could be. I could fly higher than an eagle. Because I am the wind beneath your wings..

you're also the wind beneath my wings...oh wait, thats just a lingering fart. 😛

I think most have forgotten on this thread that it's TRAYA Vs Sidious, not Malak VS Sidious. Regardless, since we know little to nothing of Traya besides she can do an 'instakill' that was only seen once in the game, how do we know she can pull it out any time she wants to? And for all we know, Sidious may have learned enough to block it, which given how the ROTS novel and NEC state he's the most powerful Sith ever, it might be possible.

I'm going with Sidious on this one. We don't really know how strong Vrook, Kavar or Zez was, besides claims that 'he was the best duelist of his time', which we have yet to see a source showing that exact quote, and that he was 'bested by Malak', who I'd surely put below Sidious, especially since he didn't have the power of the SF at his disposal during the time he supposedly 'defeated' Kavar.

Where as we have information that the PT was 'The Prime of the Jedi', more than likely meaning that they were more powerful than the Jedi of KOTOR's time, and that the 3 masters Palpatine OWNed were remarked as 'the best of their time' in the ROTS novel. Plus he went without 13 years of saber practice and was able to defeat them in a matter of seconds.

Either way, since we don't have enough info on Kreia or the KOTOR Masters and actually have info on Sidious and the 3 PT Masters, I'd give this match to Sidious, for now, unless some other canon source comes along to dictate otherwise.