Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He actually even strengthened that fact by showing Magneto wrestling the control of Storm's own lightning and hurting her with it. 🙂
He also showed Storm beating Magneto's ass with wind and temp extremes then holding back at the last minute.
You can't take the parts you like and ignore the parts you don't.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
What powers? His molecular control powers? Well, obviously he isn't capable of doing so if his own molecules are stopped.Show me an instance where Storm's powers rival the Phoenix Force.
One.
Just one simple instance where the power level of Storm is portrayed to be even close to Phoenix Force.
How does that make Iceman freezing him PIS? I mean, obviously Stranger would be able to get free from it, but that doesn't really change the fact that as an omega mutant, Iceman is capable of freezing Stranger's molecules.
Iceman does not have molecular powers. That needs to stop. He has heat absorption powers. Heat is what motivates molecules to move (unless you have somebody like Crystal who can control molecules directly or Storm who can control molecules down to the atomic and sub-atomic levels).
As for Storm and the PF, there is the Rougestorm arc that parallels the two. Both evolved beyond comprehension and both had near-infinite power. That said, the interview with Claremont only removes all doubt what his intentions were. In the fight between Phoenix and Firelord, Phoenix was tossing TK bolt attacks that were stated to be backed by the power of a star. When Storm beat the sentinel in space, her cosmic wind attack was stated to be backed by the full power of a star.
When Phoenix fought Magneto, her powers were only stated to rival Xavier. She was not given the credit with being able to throw attacks backed by the power of a star or anything since Magneto is not even globally powerful without a machine. In other words, she was written down.
Storm should have been able to finish off a herald in the recent Fantastic Four arc. She was in space. The force of her attacks are dependent upon how much essense of a planet or star/life, etc she is willing to put into her attacks to determine the punch they have. Phoenix beat the Firelord by tossing attacks backed by the power of stars. Storm has been shown in canon to be able to toss attacks of the same calibur.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
By DC logic about "this incarnation" vs "that incarnation", Storm at the very least can solo a herald, thus making this whole gaunlet void until she get's to Surfer.
You know that there are varying degrees of Herald Powers, right?
Here is a hint. Firelord is not the strongest herald.
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerSo why are the arcs where she is immune of them the correct ones, and those where she isn't are not? Obviously Claremont seems to think that Magneto is capable of hurting her with those energies. He actually even strengthened that fact by showing Magneto wrestling the control of Storm's own lightning and hurting her with it. 🙂
This is a lie. Magneto did not wrest control of a lightning bolt froom Ororo nor did he ever. You REALLY should not have gone here. I'm going to go to town now (everybody, watch this! 🙂 )
http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stormandmagneto32dx.jpg
http://img276.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stormandmagneto40hw.jpg
Okay. As you can read right there in the scans STATED in plain ENGLISH, the only reason Storm was hurt by the bolt was because she was caught off guard by it. In other words, she was not controlling it. As a matter of fact, she was taking pity on Magneto and trying to convince him to stop fighting as she did not want to hurt him anymore while he was choking and all on the floor. So, he put a magnetic field above Ororo to attract a bolt from the sky. (This is like Franklin trying to attract a bolt from the sky by using metal which attracts electricity. Magnetic fields can attract it too.) The bolt caught her off guard as it was filtered through her body so he could absorb it (We have never seen MAgneto take a bolt from the sky. Earlier in the issue when he absorbed lightning from Storm, they came from her hands. Obviously, as depicted in the scans above and in previous fights, she's only willing to go so far to hurt him. Magneto may not be able to handle a bolt from the sky because while electricity can enhance a magnetic field and create one, it can also disrupt it.) Storm tried to wrest control of the bolt from Magneto AFTER she was badly hurt and the bolt was killing her. Storm's control over the lightning greatly diminishes when she is physically hurt. This was established in a fight against Proteus in an earlier arc. Despite being severely weakened when she tried to assert control over the bolt, she was still able to put up a fight for the bolt. This really shows that Magneto's control over electricity is limited at best and far below a full-health Storm (which we all should know anyway).
Okay, now, here is why this whole thing is PIS:
http://img471.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earthquakesj9.jpg
According to this scan, Storm can detect all natural occurances before they happen. That includes lightning. All Magneto did was create a field to motivate the lightning to strike where he wanted it to. Storm should have sensed the bolt before it struck and been prepared.
Now, you may want to argue that she was so engrossed in trying to get Magneto to back down out of pity that she was caught off-guard (I'm sure this is what CC had in mind, but this does not work and now I will show you why):
http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=feelinglightningdy3.jpg
While Storm was unconscious owing to a vampiric touch from Rogue (Storm allowed Rogue to touch her), she was able to still feel the lightning strikes. So, in other words, she really wasn't paying attention since she was knocked out by the touch. Storm is automatically one with these things and can innately feel them without trying.
Then you have this scan:
http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thurther2of4.jpg
Storm cannot be directly harmed by the manifestations of the elements. This includes lightning. This is a character who has brought lightning down on herself time and again and has even contained in her body the full electrical power of a storm all at once. This was in her VERY first appearance. In other words, from the get go, these forces could not hurt her.
BTW, if you want to know why those things affected her in this scan as they did, I can do a post on it explaining. It goes back to her bond with the Earth and all. However, for the sake of this post, it is unnecessary to go there as it will not help MAgneto at all.
AS in the case with the Phoenix/MAgneto fight, Storm was written down here for the sake of trying to make MAgneto a credible threat. It falls flat on its face when taking into consideration the whole of Storm's canon and the PIS rule.
Dark Cralwer, we go by the issues that give the character credit for their power. The correct issues are not the ones that weaken her so that Magneto can hurt her. Magneto can attract a bolt from the sky by using a magnetic field to motivate it. However, we give Storm her credit. She is immune. Therefore, her ability nullify's MAgneto's ability to hurt her in this way.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
By DC's logic about "this incarnation" vs "that incarnation", Storm at the very least can solo a herald, thus making this whole gaunlet void until she get's to Surfer.
Exactly. Claremont did the same things with STorm and Phoenix in canon. Its perfectly clear that the two women were equal. He further stated it in plain english in that interview which removes all doubt. Why can't these people just go on and give the lady her due? 🙄
Originally posted by Rutog98
Iceman does not have molecular powers. That needs to stop. He has heat absorption powers. Heat is what motivates molecules to move (unless you have somebody like Crystal who can control molecules directly or Storm who can control molecules down to the atomic and sub-atomic levels).
And doesn't that basically transfer from him into stopping the molecular motion of things?
And he is shown to be able to attack molecules directly. Like here, for example.
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7425/xmenn41p143oa.jpg
And here.
http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/8573/uncannyiceman044zi.jpg
Originally posted by Rutog98
As for Storm and the PF, there is the Rougestorm arc that parallels the two. Both evolved beyond comprehension and both had near-infinite power. That said, the interview with Claremont only removes all doubt what his intentions were. In the fight between Phoenix and Firelord, Phoenix was tossing TK bolt attacks that were stated to be backed by the power of a star. When Storm beat the sentinel in space, her cosmic wind attack was stated to be backed by the full power of a star.
Roguestorm arc paralled the similar situation that the two were in. There was nothing that would have insinuated that Storm's power was even nearly as strong as Phoenix Force is.
And of course cosmic wind attack is backed by the full power of star. That's were it comes from. Sun.
And the interview still states that the weaker Phoenix incarnation is capable of higher peak then Storm. Storm can only match him because she can peak longer. That's what it said. You can't dance around that.
Just like a guy who can lift only one package at a time can eventually carry just many packages as the other guy, even if he can't lift as much as the other guy.
Originally posted by Rutog98
When Phoenix fought Magneto, her powers were only stated to rival Xavier. She was not given the credit with being able to throw attacks backed by the power of a star or anything since Magneto is not even globally powerful without a machine. In other words, she was written down.
Of course Magneto is globally powerful without a machine. He shut down all electrical equipment in the world without a machine. 😄
Originally posted by Rutog98
Storm should have been able to finish off a herald in the recent Fantastic Four arc. She was in space. The force of her attacks are dependent upon how much essense of a planet or star/life, etc she is willing to put into her attacks to determine the punch they have. Phoenix beat the Firelord by tossing attacks backed by the power of stars. Storm has been shown in canon to be able to toss attacks of the same calibur.
You know that one single star is nothing compared to FULL power of Phoenix? The same Phoenix that was the Big Bang of the entire reality.
Again, nothing that you posted can show that Storm can match the FULL Phoenix Force.
And since she can't even peak as high as the weaker incarnation, it should be obvious that she can't. 🙂
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerOf course Magneto is globally powerful without a machine. He shut down all electrical equipment in the world without a machine. 😄
No. He is not. In that arc, the EM fields were warped by a machine Forge created that skewed the global fields to such an extreme that had MAgneto come into the planetary atmosphere and attempted to use his powers, the fields would have fedback on him instantly killing him. While safely outside of the atmoshpere, Magneto blasted the field in this warped state and the result was what you are referring to. Your argument is further weakened by the fact that in his next arc, "Magneto War", Magneto required a machine to boost his powers to turn off all electrical equipment in the world. In this arc, the EM fields were in a natural state and unhampered by Forge's machine. Thus Magneto cannot accomplish anything on a global level (nor has he been shown to be able to accomplish anything even on the scale of a decent size country...or even small country) without a machine.
Originally posted by Rutog98
This is a lie. Magneto did not wrest control of a lightning bolt froom Ororo nor did he ever. You REALLY should not have gone here. I'm going to go to town now (everybody, watch this! 🙂 )http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stormandmagneto32dx.jpg
http://img276.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stormandmagneto40hw.jpgOkay. As you can read right there in the scans STATED in plain ENGLISH, the only reason Storm was hurt by the bolt was because she was caught off guard by it. In other words, she was not controlling it. As a matter of fact, she was taking pity on Magneto and trying to convince him to stop fighting as she did not want to hurt him anymore while he was choking and all on the floor. So, he put a magnetic field above Ororo to attract a bolt from the sky. (This is like Franklin trying to attract a bolt from the sky by using metal which attracts electricity.
Magnetic fields can attract it too.) The bolt caught her off guard as it was filtered through her body so he could absorb it (We have never seen MAgneto take a bolt from the sky. Earlier in the issue when he absorbed lightning from Storm, they came from her hands. Obviously, as depicted in the scans above and in previous fights, she's only willing to go so far to hurt him. Magneto may not be able to handle a bolt from the sky because while electricity can enhance a magnetic field and create one, it can also disrupt it.) Storm tried to wrest control of the bolt from Magneto AFTER she was badly hurt and the bolt was killing her.
Storm's control over the lightning greatly diminishes when she is physically hurt. This was established in a fight against Proteus in an earlier arc. Despite being severely weakened when she tried to assert control over the bolt, she was still able to put up a fight for the bolt. This really shows that Magneto's control over electricity is limited at best and far below a full-health Storm (which we all should know anyway).
Okay, now, here is why this whole thing is PIS:
http://img471.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earthquakesj9.jpg
According to this scan, Storm can detect all natural occurances before they happen. That includes lightning. All Magneto did was create a field to motivate the lightning to strike where he wanted it to. Storm should have sensed the bolt before it struck and been prepared.
[QUOTE=9096140]Originally posted by Rutog98
[B]Now, you may want to argue that she was so engrossed in trying to get Magneto to back down out of pity that she was caught off-guard (I'm sure this is what CC had in mind, but this does not work and now I will show you why):http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=feelinglightningdy3.jpg
While Storm was unconscious owing to a vampiric touch from Rogue (Storm allowed Rogue to touch her), she was able to still feel the lightning strikes. So, in other words, she really wasn't paying attention since she was knocked out by the touch. Storm is automatically one with these things and can innately feel them without trying.
Then you have this scan:
http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thurther2of4.jpgStorm cannot be directly harmed by the manifestations of the elements. This includes lightning. This is a character who has brought lightning down on herself time and again and has even contained in her body the full electrical power of a storm all at once. This was in her VERY first appearance. In other words, from the get go, these forces could not hurt her.
BTW, if you want to know why those things affected her in this scan as they did, I can do a post on it explaining. It goes back to her bond with the Earth and all. However, for the sake of this post, it is unnecessary to go there as it will not help MAgneto at all.
AS in the case with the Phoenix/MAgneto fight, Storm was written down here for the sake of trying to make MAgneto a credible threat. It falls flat on its face when taking into consideration the whole of Storm's canon and the PIS rule.
Okay, you convinced me here. I don't think Storm should be harmed by electricity.
But you still claim that Storm is the only one who is written down in their fights. This simply isn't true. Magneto doesn't display the full usage of his powers in their fights either. Using lightning against her is not the only way for Magneto to harm her.
Originally posted by Rutog98
Dark Cralwer, we go by the issues that give the character credit for their power. The correct issues are not the ones that weaken her so that Magneto can hurt her. Magneto can attract a bolt from the sky by using a magnetic field to motivate it. However, we give Storm her credit. She is immune. Therefore, her ability nullify's MAgneto's ability to hurt her in this way.
CC actually said approximately EQUAL in terms of RAW POWER.
She can peak higher, probably inferring that since she has the PF, she can call on more power more readily.
Storm can call upon just as much power as Jean.
CC illustrated this with the Galactic Core. I don't even think Jean-Dark Phoenix called upon the power of MILLIONS of Suns and Stars.
It's clear ideas he had.
Storm can also control everything related to weather, this includes the Sun(Uncanny#99) and Gamma Radiation:
The weather of Earth ultimately draws it's power from the Sun, our lovely star in this system. Storm is uniquely linked not just to the Earth but also the Moon and the Sun (and any other forces that might be related to weather phenomena)
DC you shouldn't waste your time against these Storm brats, its clear they're not arguing for 616 storm but fanboy Storm. She's immune to everything because all things are connected to the weather, despite the fact that 616 Storm is said to be immune to weather effects but is effected by them all the time.
In fact she's not even immune to cold, 2damnloud posted a picture of storm walking around in snow with just a towel or blanket thing and a gust of wind came up and she said she was cold.
Originally posted by 2damnloudFunny thing is that when you try to look up info on that you only find KMC. And that line is just about so much bullshit.
Storm can also control everything related to weather, this includes the Sun(Uncanny#99) and Gamma Radiation:[b]The weather of Earth ultimately draws it's power from the Sun, our lovely star in this system. Storm is uniquely linked not just to the Earth but also the Moon and the Sun (and any other forces that might be related to weather phenomena)
[/B]
Originally posted by Creshosk
Funny thing is that when you try to look up info on that you only find KMC. And that line is just about so much bullshit.
Yawn. He's right:
http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm185pg12mo8.jpg
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm185pg13dm3.jpg
Notice, when Ororo allows Rogue to borrow her powers, Rogue is connected to the sun as well as the Earth. The sun resonates within her body as well as the Earth.
http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=feelinghurricaneva2.jpg
She can feel the moon's effect on the Earth as well. 🙂
Next.
Originally posted by 2damnloudAnd wolverine can survive a nuke, and spiderman can knockout firelord with his fists and captain america can knock out hulk with his fists.
Canon states otherwise.Deal with IT 🙂
So I'm going to assume you will no longer be calling this PIS? (Its not because electromagnetism is NOT part of the weather and neither is gamma radiation, merely the heat generated by the sun which causes warm fronts which alters the pressure areas. You are once AGAIN distorting what happened in the comics to fanboy proportions. Its really sad you know NOTHING about the weather.
Anywho Non-PIS feat by Magneto:
Originally posted by Rutog98No he's not its just your usualfanboy twist. If you knew anythign about the weather you'd know HOW those things were related to the weather and not just that they are.
Yawn. He's right:http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm185pg12mo8.jpg
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm185pg13dm3.jpgNotice, when Ororo allows Rogue to borrow her powers, Rogue is connected to the sun as well as the Earth. The sun resonates within her body as well as the Earth.
http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=feelinghurricaneva2.jpg
She can feel the moon's effect on the Earth as well. 🙂
Next.
Its sad really how badly you two morons twist what happens to suit your veiws.
There's no twisting this though, Storm herself said it:
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Okay, you convinced me here. I don't think Storm should be harmed by electricity.But you still claim that Storm is the only one who is written down in their fights. This simply isn't true. Magneto doesn't display the full usage of his powers in their fights either. Using lightning against her is not the only way for Magneto to harm her.
Then, can you tell me why this doesn't apply to the instance where Storm breaks Magneto's shield with a wind (that, I may add, wasn't even strong enough to tear Magneto's clothes and skin), despite Magneto's shields have taken far, far worse attacks before? 🙂
Magneto's force-field was not written down here. Right before she attacked him, it easily withstood the combined power of Cyclops, Colossus and Wolverine.
As for why it did not hurt his body directly, Storm did not batter Magneto's body with her winds. She used the winds to only batter down the force-field. Once that was gone, she kept the winds away from his body (again, she does not want to kill Magneto...as usual) and used it vacuum aspect to suck away his air to breathe.
She has that kind of control over the winds. Look what she does here:
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bedbx2.jpg
http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bed2zo9.jpg
The winds ignores what STorm wants it to ignore and focuses on what only she wants it to focus on. Also, notice that when the bed is in the air sustained by winds, there is no turbulance. It's nice, peaceful and controlled.
Now, she could have battered Magneto's body like she did a weakened Dark Phoenix here:
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmtdps181si7.jpg
Storm was just psionically forced back to consciousness by Xavier so she could fight the Dark Phoenix. She was hurt herself owing to an ambush from one of the Imperial Guard. However, she was able to whip up a tornado of unimagineable power against the Dark Phoenix. Now, she did not do this to Magneto because it would have killed him. Lets face it. Anything that can make an even weakened Dark Phoenix scream in pain would kill Magneto.
Magneto's fields have not withstood stronger attacks than Storm's winds. You greatly underestimate the power of her winds.
Originally posted by Creshosk
No he's not its just your usualfanboy twist. If you knew anythign about the weather you'd know HOW those things were related to the weather and not just that they are.Its sad really how badly you two morons twist what happens to suit your veiws.
There's no twisting this though, Storm herself said it:
And that scan shows PIS. First off, the writer who wrote that scan never gave Storm the credit for being immune to the elements. Secondly, in Uncanny 147, she evolved into Rougestorm. Do you know how? She absorbed the energies from some storm cells which triggered the evolution. The energies she would have metabolized there would include EM energies, the same energies Magneto controls as well as other forces he does not. It only made her stronger.
Here is the scan from Uncanny 121:
http://img356.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm121pg145yd.jpg
She channeled a continent-sized blizzard through her body. Again, among the myriad forces she's channeling, the EM energy Magneto controls would be among them.
In both of these cases, she is channeling these forces is FAR greater quantities than Magneto can produce at any given time. By comparison, the quantity he is producing is a pitance. This doesn't even include the amount of energies she was channeling in the core or in the Trion dimension. Magneto is a joke to Storm.
Another thing about that issue you bring up, Magneto sneaked up on the X-Men. How in the world can he do that when Storm can sense movement through the air and the EM fields, etc? Heck, he was even dragging Avalon with him through the atmosphere which was creating atmospheric disturbances and Storm did not feel any of this. She was written down for the sake of the story.
All of these things are the reason I don't respect Magneto and don't consider him in the power class many of you board members put him in. If he were as powerful as you guys would like for him to be, then Storm would not have to be written down for Magneto to be a credible threat.
Hope this helps. 🙂
