Revan vs. Maul

...You're completely missing the point. You don't have the evidence or logical reduction required to prove that Revan can beat Maul in a lightsaber duel. Running around proclaiming that "Revan is a prodigy!!11!" or "Revan is a master of Jar Kai!!1!" or otherwise spouting about circumstances in which details aren't concrete (lmao, citing Revan himself as a source?) only proves that you're a gigantic fanboy, not that Revan has, in any way, dominance over Maul.

Based on sheer evidence alone, a better case can be made for Maul.

Edit: I'd also like the people who voted for 'Revan pwns!' to come out of the woodwork and explain their [lack of] logic for doing so.

Originally posted by Gideon
...You're completely missing the point. You don't have the evidence or logical reduction required to prove that Revan can beat Maul in a lightsaber duel.

I have yet not given any conclusion that either Revan can beat Maul or Maul and beat Revan in pure Saber Combat.

Even Advent have yet to prove that Maul can beat Revan in Saber Combat.

Originally posted by Gideon
Running around proclaiming that "Revan is a prodigy!!11!"

Originally posted by Gideon
or "Revan is a master of Jar Kai!!1!"

Originally posted by Gideon
or otherwise spouting about circumstances in which details aren't concrete (lmao, citing Revan himself as a source?) only proves that you're a gigantic fanboy, not that Revan has, in any way, dominance over Maul.

And it is 100% true that Revan was far more successful then Maul in his life.

Calling me a fanboy for defending Revan will not help. It is true that he is among my favorite characters and it is a matter of my personal preference, if I choose to defend him in a particular thread. You have the same liberty in defending any character you want. No one is stopping you.

Originally posted by Gideon
Based on sheer evidence alone, a better case can be made for Maul.

Originally posted by Gideon
Edit: I'd also like the people who voted for 'Revan pwns!' to come out of the woodwork and explain their [lack of] logic for doing so.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Even Advent have yet to prove that Maul can beat Revan in Saber Combat.

Originally posted by Advent
I have none, considering I never said he would win. Quote me for truth if you believe otherwise.

Anyways, are you done making incorrect inferences yet? Or do you still have more up that big ass of yours?

Dumbass.

Originally posted by Advent
Dumbass.

OK! I admit that you are also not giving any conclusion in this regard, happy?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And calling me dumbass will solve your own self developed issues with me?

What in the blue hell are you talking about? I don't have any "issues" with you. If you're referring to the argument, your's is weak. Which I will show shortly, once I take a break from my, y'know, life.

[sarcasm] Because they're too expensive for poor country folk like me. [/sarcasm]

Thats what you sayed huh? you dont know me you dont know my family's financial problems and I am from the South. North Carolina to be exact so maby YOU might want to get YOU'RE facts straight Advent...

[Sarcasm] Oh yea by the way our little argument if you can even call it one is OVER.

Considering Revan himself beat Mandalore the Ultimate in a straight out fight, aswell as defeated Malak in combat, who I'd HIGHLY place above Maul in both terms of Force and saber skills. That and considering Maul would probably get cocky like he usually does, I'd expect Revan to manipulate that into giving him an edge.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Considering Revan himself beat Mandalore the Ultimate in a straight out fight, aswell as defeated Malak in combat, who I'd HIGHLY place above Maul in both terms of Force and saber skills. That and considering Maul would probably get cocky like he usually does, I'd expect Revan to manipulate that into giving him an edge.

Prove that Malak is highly above Maul in Force abilities and lightsaber skills; Dooku isn't even "highly above" Maul in lightsaber skills.

Originally posted by Gideon
Prove that Malak is highly above Maul in Force abilities and lightsaber skills; Dooku isn't even "highly above" Maul in lightsaber skills.

How is Dooku not above Maul in saber abilities? Last time I checked, Dooku was considered almost above Mace Windu himself in both Force and Saber skills by Yoda himself. Prove to me he IS above both Mace and Dooku in saber skills, please.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Considering Malak can use both force lightning(And don't use the Maul can resist lightning as seen when he defeated that witch lady'. Don't even begin to compare a witch's power to that of a Sith Lord's.) Force Drain, and Force Whirlwind, while all we've seen from Maul is Force enhanced jumps and sprints, I'd say that much is pretty covered. Malak also defeated Kavar, a famous Jedi Master Guardian and Weapons Master(Who mastered the Jar'Kai style and was highly revered by both the Mandalorians and the Jedi Order and was a member of that Jedi Council, if I remember correctly). I'd highly place that ahead of what Maul has done, besides killing an army of untrained criminals and barely holding off and cornering an old, tired Jedi Master who was way past his prime. That and like I said, Maul would more than likely get cocky, Revan would use that to his advantage and defeat him.

How is Dooku not above Maul in saber abilities? Last time I checked, Dooku was considered almost above Mace Windu himself in both Force and Saber skills by Yoda himself. Prove to me he IS above both Mace and Dooku in saber skills, please.

We'll leave the first paragraph to Jollyjim; he can do a better job than I can.

How is Dooku not above Maul in saber abilities?

Where did I say that Dooku wasn't above Maul in lightsaber abilities? I believe all I said was this:

Dooku isn't even "highly above" Maul in lightsaber skills.

Last time I checked, Dooku was considered almost above Mace Windu himself in both Force and Saber skills by Yoda himself.

...Last time I checked, Yoda said that Dooku was considered the Temple's "greatest student" by virtue of accumulated knowledge and experience in Dark Rendezvous. Where did he say that he was better than Mace in lightsaber skills and Force powers?

Prove to me he IS above both Mace and Dooku in saber skills, please.

I didn't make the claim, so I don't have to prove anything. Instead of misinterpreting shit, take your time and read it.

Edit: I expected a hell of a lot better from you, Spartan. You used to fancy yourself as a skilled debater [and I held you in high regard]. What you posted now was pure shit. You've yet to prove that Malak is a more capable duelist than a guy who "pushed his lightsaber and Force-assisted abilities to their utmost", "one of the most dangerous Sith apprentices in history", and "the ultimate weapon".

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Maul is also a Sith Lord, Buddy. Also, you can't quantify how powerful any of Malak's attacks were. Also, Maul's force enhanced sprints take him from next to an explosion to out of sight in "microseconds." Maul defeated Anoon Bondara, Kavar's superior.

Originally posted by Gideon
We'll leave the first paragraph to Jollyjim; he can do a better job than I can.

I appreciate the compliment, but you have to say it right after I post a half-assed clunky statement. Well, there was a reason for it's half-assedness, and that is that I must be off! I'll go about it more eloquently when I redo my response. Sound like a plan?

Originally posted by Gideon

Edit: I expected a hell of a lot better from you, Spartan. You used to fancy yourself as a skilled debater [and I held you in high regard]. What you posted now was pure shit. You've yet to prove that Malak is a more capable duelist than a guy who "pushed his lightsaber and Force-assisted abilities to their utmost", "one of the most dangerous Sith apprentices in history", and "the ultimate weapon".

I haven't been here in awhile nor have I had the time to, unlike you an Advent, so excuse me for being past the times.

Originally posted by Gideon

You've yet to prove that Malak is a more capable duelist than a guy who "pushed his lightsaber and Force-assisted abilities to their utmost", "one of the most dangerous Sith apprentices in history", and "the ultimate weapon". [/B]

Originally posted by Spartan ll
I am interested, however, in where you got these quotes.

The Complete Visual Dictionary.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Maul is also a Sith Lord, Buddy.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Also, you can't quantify how powerful any of Malak's attacks were.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Also, Maul's force enhanced sprints take him from next to an explosion to out of sight in "microseconds."

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Maul defeated Anoon Bondara, Kavar's superior.

anoon bondaras technical abilities were unparalleled in the golden age of saber dueling

as advent mentioned, he was capable of lifting boulders with ease as a padawan, and was stated to live in the force

he was heavily muscled, and a master of teras kasi

he >>> kavar

Legend, let me say first that I'm growing tired of your constant lies, exaggerations, and unsupported assumptions.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Those two grenades were mean't to be used on that Acid Pool.

I've caught you in a lie. Only the ice grenade was supposed to be used. Oh, and you can carry other grenades on your person anyways.

And none of those grenades were powerful enough to kill or even seriously injure those two monsters.[/b]

...Your basing this off what exactly? The fact you believe what you want to believe?

One grenade in the mouth a la Jaws would be sufficient.

So once again, Revan had to resort to the use of Melee weapons against them.

Just because you type it out, doesn't make it so. There's other options, such as indirect use of the Force, direct use of the Force.

However Revan could use the Force to augment his strength or stamina but he was also a skilled swordsman. And Revan himself said that he killed those monsters easily, which is a feat to be acknowledged.

Nonsense. Simply because Revan said it (I want to see the quote, by the way) doesn't make it true. I suppose Darth Sidious must really have "UNL1MITED POWAH!!/!1ONEELEVEN!!" simply because he says so.

Furthermore, how could Revan have said that if it's possible to just run past them and pull the lever? Oh? What's that? You just got owned? Quod erat demonstrandum, *****.

Many people failed to kill those monsters in past several decades and and it shows that how skilled Revan was.

A relatively young Jedi Knight was able to severely injure a terentatek with a single strike. I'd hope someone who's talents are as boasted as Revan would be able to top that.

We still can make a logical deduction based on the analysis of the situation in the Tomb of Naga Sadow.

No, you cannot make a sound deduction from what we have to deduce from.

In the comic: "Shadows and Light", the Jedi always use melee weapons against the Terentatek beasts.

Your point is moot, see below.

Why don't they use Force on these monsters, if these monsters are not fully immune to Force attacks?

By this type of ridiculous logic, I could question why they didn't indirectly use the Force. Are they immune to that as well?

Answer: No. Ergo simply because a few, young Jedi didn't opt to use the Force doesn't mean they are completely resistant. Or alternatively, I could inform you that to generalize because one batch of fighters didn't use the Force, it means everyone else is thusly incapable is fallacious.

Keep using reasoning like that and you'll find yourself getting laughed at.

Now this is some naughty and lovely explanation from a girl! hehehe! 😱 Thanks for the insight!

Wow. I didn't realizing skirting the point (that because unofficial website A says X is true, doesn't mean X actually is) was an acceptable form of response.

Thanks for the insight, junior.

Answer the above question!

I don't have to, because the actual intention and reasoning behind the question itself is fallacious.

You Force Stun them during the gameplay, right? Now our actions in the gameplay are not canon. Do you see a Jedi Force Stunning those monsters in a cutscene? No!

Originally posted by Advent
The fact of the matter is, that it was not a variable.

Which means that it isn't dependent upon the situation, as it can always be used no matter what (and the type of element itself is different from that of statistics and other assorted categories, by the way). Akin to that of Bastila knowing Force lightning after her fall to the Dark side. It's never canonically stated, but it's not an alterable element.

Refute it or drop the point.

Oh, and three Force powers that I know of definitely are effective against them, so your SOL.

Now how can you say for sure that Revan Force Stunned them first and then destroyed them? No you can't!

Quoting of context is a fallacy.

I never even said that it was absolute that he did stun them. Try quoting for me truth. What I said was:

Originally posted by Advent
No, because if it wasn't clear enough before, the circumstances are unknown. Ergo, it's speculation to say that he killed them via lightsaber or similar weapon. One could've used a grenade (you find two different types of grenades in the area, to my (perfect) recollection), or made indirect use of the Force.

Nothing is absolute, so don't try to act like it is.

Nice try.

And if Bioware allowed one Force Power to work on those monsters during gameplay

You can use stasis field or insanity, both work. You can also use Force kill. I'm sure there are other assorted powers too. Now that I've established Force powers do work, you lose.

😆 GG, Legend. Better luck next time junior!

it does not makes it a canon thing unless they show you a Jedi Force Stunning those monsters in a cutscene.

Originally posted by Advent
The fact of the matter is, that it was not a variable.

Which means that it isn't dependent upon the situation, as it can always be used no matter what (and the type of element itself is different from that of statistics and other assorted categories, by the way). Akin to that of Bastila knowing Force lightning after her fall to the Dark side. It's never canonically stated, but it's not an alterable element.

Refute it or drop the point.

Oh, and three Force powers that I know of definitely are effective against them, so your SOL.

If all of the sources that I have mentioned are lying

Quoting out of context again. Saying that they're unofficial, third party sources does not equate to them "lying".

then can you show me a reliable source that proves your argument that some Force attacks can work on Terentatek beasts

Oh. If you want to talk about your "sources", then I'd once again direct you to them:

"Regardless, terentatek were virtually immune to effects of the Force."

vir·tu·al·ly adv.

For the most part; almost wholly; just about

Not even your own source believes you, Legend. QED.

Indirect use of Force in terms of augmenting the strength or stamina is a possibility that I will never deny.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So we have one more viable option left and that is the use of Light Saber or a Sith Sword.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He single handedly killed two large Terentatek beasts with his blade.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So once again, Revan had to resort to the use of Melee weapons against them.

You were saying?

Considering you've been adamant this entire time on arguing the only possible way to defeat them was with a melee weapon, I'm going to call you out on lying.

But use of Grenades and Mines is an absurd thing. Those Sith Masters do not allow people to carry powerful explosives and mines in to that Tomb of Naga Sadow to easily accomplish the Sith Trials.

I'm not going to believe the word of an established embellisher and liar. Proof or it isn't true.

<edit> In fact, I just looked it up. You can carry grenades, mines, thermal detonators, etc. with you and use them. Seems you've been making shit up again. QED. </edit>

What else Revan did to Yusanis? Let him go?

I'm not denying that Revan killed Yusanis, what I'm arguing is that there's absolutely no proof to support the claim that he "destroyed" Yusanis (and clearly, in the context you were using it, you meant it as 'kicked his ass'😉.

Evidence that he "destroyed" him has yet to surface from your side of the table (likely because you don't have any). Either put up or shut up.

Check the second source for explanation.

Appealling to authority is always going to a logical fallacy, no matter how many times you repeat it.

What does the vision of Duron Qel Droma shows you? Was Revan posing with that Light Saber?

It shows me that they most likely passed blades, which is something I've said myself. A better question would've been "what doesn't it show?". The answer to which is relatively simple and has been explained numerous times. It doesn't show that Revan killed Malak with a saber, nor does it show that they fought longer than two seconds.

If you believe otherwise, then I'd advise you to PROVE. UP. Something of which you've yet to do.

How can you say for sure that the Light Saber battle between Revan and Malak lasted only for two seconds?

Your ability to twist arguments are almost on par with your ability to spew bullshit.

Quote me for truth, where have I ever said that "for sure" it lasted two seconds? Oh? Nowhere? It was something you pulled out of your ass?

Yeah, I'm only using 2 seconds as a random amount of time tailored to suit my argument (within reason, of course). I'm not saying, nor have I ever implied that it's accurate. The point I'm trying to make with it is that while Duron's vision may suggest a saber duel ensued, it doesn't mean they did battle with said weapon for long, much less that Revan killed Malak with it.

Revan was at-least declared to be a Prodigy by a Jedi Master. When was Maul declared to be a prodigy in a similar manner and by whom?

How about deducing from the fact we have an omniscient narrator telling us that Maul was "one of the deadliest Sith apprentices in history" at only age 22. He has defeated the greatest lightsaber wielder of the then Jedi Order (which included such Jedi like Yoda, Dooku, and Windu), was able to contend with and dominate a contest against Jinn and Kenobi, both who are formidable in their own right. All with less than twenty years of training.

You don't do any of that without being a prodigious being.

I made a logical deduction based on the fact that Yusanis had exceptional precognitive skills. Now to beat a person like that, a Jedi will had to anticipate his every move and then counter them effectively. And to achieve this, that Jedi must possess exceptional precognitive abilities.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

I stated that he did such [defeated Yusanis] by "unknown means", which is absolutely true. I never asked about his foresight, you idiot. Ergo, your entire response was a huge red herring.

A) Being emotionally disturbed that limited his focus.

This a largely unsupported. Simply because you believe the revelation caused a hindrance does not mean it did. It's hardly acceptable to say that it did, because correlation does not imply causation.

That, coupled along with the fact you didn't have a strong leg to stand on to begin with, makes your assumption incorrect to state as truth.

B) Limited training and knowledge. Although Revan was very strong and experienced, he did not remembered all the knowledge that he learned before the betrayal. Malak however knew a lot about the Sith/Jedi techniques and also had vast experience at his disposal because he never forgot anything. And the training from the Jedi Council in Dantooine proved not to be enough to stop him.

This proves his precognitive abilities were still diminished how, exactly? You appear to be missing the entire point.

What would you expect from a person who thinks that he is all good and then suddenly he is exposed to a terrible truth that he was actually a villian who is responsible for murder of millions? Will he not get emotionally disturbed?

No one said he wouldn't, but does that necessarily mean it would impede on his concentration? No, because correlation does not imply causation. Ergo, your argument holds little water (there's enough in the glass for it to be a possibility, but hardly enough to state as being a definite cause).

There is a thing known as "logical deduction" and we can make them through observations and analysis.

A textbook example of a quasi intellectual. Do you think using big words makes you look any more intelligent, especially when you take into consideration you defy the main aspect of them in almost every argument (the logic)?

You've committed more fallacies, and made more unsupported assumptions in this thread alone than Takeru Kobayashi had hot dogs last year.

He did not used Thermal Detonators, Grenades and Mines to defeat him however!

I said he did? Where? Try quoting me for truth instead of out of context.

And to continually disacknowledge the point that the circumstances of the fight are unknown doesn't change the fact that they are.

According to the logical deductions that seem to be true. As I have explained above.

Making a mountain of assumptions without feasible logic and evidence behind them doesn't make anything true, son.

Revan was possibly the best in an age, where we have seen some formidable Jedi and Sith Warriors. If such type of warriors have existed in the time of Anoon Bondara and he was better then them, then you have a point and if not, then you don't.

Uh, connect the dots. He lived in the "Prime of the Jedi" (which furthers the point), where we have accomplished duelists such as Yoda, Count Dooku, and Mace Windu. The Jedi of old don't hold a candle to that.

I don't make a point if I can't back it up. Unlike you.

And, if you'll read IOU's post:

Originally posted by IOU
well in terms of whos the better swordsman, id place my money on anoon

in virtually every source he appears in his skills with the saber are held in extremely high regard

for instance, from the cloak of deception:

"A Twi'lek, with slender head-tails and a heavily muscled upper body, his name was Anoon Bondara, a duelist of unparalleled skill. Qui-Gon engaged him in matches at every opportunity. For a match with Bondara, no matter how brief, was more instructive than twenty contests against lesser opponents."

from shadow hunter:

"At least she was not standing there alone. Behind her and slightly to one side was her mentor, Anoon Bondara. Master Bondara epitomized what Darsha hoped to become one day. The Twi'lek Jedi Master lived in the Force. Always still and complacent as a pool of unknown depth, he was nevertheless one of the best fighters in the order. His skill with a lightsaber was second to none. Darsha hoped that one day she might be able to exhibit a tenth of Anoon Bondara's adeptness."

from the power of the jedi sourcebook:

"darsha assant's teacher was the jedi master anoon bondara, a twi'lek jedi renowned for his skill with the lightsaber. to padawan darsha, of course, master bondara's prowess was unmatched."

anoon was also a practitioner of teras kasi, which would make him a far more dangerous opponent, given that hardly any jedi had any familiarity with the style whatsoever. from shadow hunter:

"The Jedi was obviously a master of the teras kasi fighting arts, as well, judging by the smooth way he parried and counterattacked."

and the power of the jedi sourcebook confirms that anoon was a master of teras kasi, not just a practitioner

being a lightsaber instructor, its also highly likely anoon was very proficient/had great knowledge, and perhaps even achieved mastery of multiple saber forms, or an extremely high mastery of his own, which is always a plus

so yes, clearly his technical abilities with a saber were virtually unmatched, and some of the best in the entire pt jedi order

It's apparent that Anoon was simply that damn good.

My point was that Revan has shown us that he faced many kinds of hard challenges and he prevailed in them all, which speaks highly about his skills.

Except...none of it establishes a basis for claiming he would beat Maul due to the fact the conditions of the most of his battle are largely blank.

Revan was a skilled swordsman.

Repeating yourself ad nasuem really won't help.

Anyways, so was Qui-Gon Jinn, is he now "among the greatest"? Absolutely not. Simply because he was a [possible] practicioner of the form means exactly squat. We see Revan using a single blade on the Star Forge, and zilch indicates a mastery of Jar'Kai.

And according to Exile, he mastered Jar Kai.

According to the Exile, he practices Jar'Kai. It's an unsound assumption to say that he "mastered" it. One could say that it was a short time period that Revan even used dual lightsabers (much like Exar Kun did). Jack shit suggests what you're saying.

If it does, PROVE. UP.

They are being cautious but they never said that Revan was not a practitioner of Jar Kai.]

The point obviously flew over your head like Superman. It's the fact that one of your own sources says it's only "possible". I find it hard to believe one could be "among the greatest" of X if it's only possible that they used X.

Exile's vision was a different one and in her vision, Revan used Jar Kai.

...Which proves absolutely nothing in regards to your original assertion.

Am I supposed to laugh in this case?

No, it's demonstrating the absurdity of your assertion. Concept art is not the final product, it does not prove that he's even a user of such a form (even if another point is in your favor, this point holds no water), nor that he's "among the greatest".

Prove your original assumption or drop the point.

That concept art is from a comic and is not developed by a fan.

Who do you think designed the picture I've provided? A kindergarten student? It's official concept art of Chewbacca, made during the production of ANH for George Lucas himself to consider. The evidence of which can be found in the Bonus Features of the OT DVD set, if you want to question it.

And finally Legend, let me conclude with telling you that you're a lying sack of steaming, stinking, grade-A monkey crap. Don't bother responding if I can expect another post of literally nothing but that.