Originally posted by inimalist
All heroes dodge bullets and lasers, so much so that I would argue the feats should not be usable to represent speed. There is nothing about either HE or Punisher's powerset or feats, outside of bulletdodging, that suggests either should be fast enough to dodge the other's weapon.
There is, Punisher has dodged gunfire from Bullseye, Bullseye is another character with superhuman accuracy like Hawkeye. Punisher has also managed to block Captain Americas shield and hes blocked DDs baton with gunfire.
I'm not saying he could dodge Hawkeyes arrows easily but he should be able to at least dodge some combine that with his gunskill and HE is toast. Also I've seen US Agent dodge HEs arrows and he doesn't even have superhuman speed or agility.
Originally posted by inimalist
You mention Punisher tagging spiderman, which is, imho, a very realistic portrayal. However, spidersense aside, it is not something that would be unreasonable to expect of someone who is equally a master of archery.
I do think comics to an extent take into consideration that arrows and thrown projectiles are slower than bullets. If you look at HE or possibly even Cap they tend to hit bullet dodgers not by pure accuracy but by trickery eg Taskmaster used HE's skill to fight Spiderman, Spiderman caught TM's arrows but the arrow had gas in it and exploded in his face. Punisher as far as I'm aware has a better history of tagging people with his aim.
Originally posted by the ninjak
He did it in The List : Avengers #1
He easily puts an arrow through his head. Then proceeds to take him out.
HE doesn't have any other feats to back that up, as far as I'm aware. They jobbed.
Originally posted by Deadline
There is, Punisher has dodged gunfire from Bullseye, Bullseye is another character with superhuman accuracy like Hawkeye. Punisher has also managed to block Captain Americas shield and hes blocked DDs baton with gunfire.I'm not saying he could dodge Hawkeyes arrows easily but he should be able to at least dodge some combine that with his gunskill and HE is toast. Also I've seen US Agent dodge HEs arrows and he doesn't even have superhuman speed or agility.
so, I know this is going to continue my error of using real world representations of things, but my logic is essentially as follows:
Bullet speed: http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/MariaPereyra.shtml
> slowest speed listed is 180 m/s
Arrow speed: http://www.bowlocker.info/selection-your-compound-bow-4-ibo-speed-compound-bow
> high performace bows start at 91.44 m/s (300 f/s)
Speed of record fastball: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=sh-redspadres092410
> ~47 m/s (105 mph = miles per hour)
[m/s = meters per second]
dodging, catching or reacting to something being thrown is not nearly as impressive as dodging an arrow. I'll save the "this-is-how-long-it-takes-for-people-to-react-to-something" part of this, but like, even with fastballs, scientists who have looked into it have shown that it is actually impossible for the human eye to react to the ball, but rather the batter's swing is based on a projection of where they think the ball will be. An arrow, at its slowest, is twice that fast. Bullets get up to thousands of m/s from rifles...
without explicit superspeed/agility/reflexes, Frank has no business dodging bullets or arrows. Lets ignore the fact that HE almost certainly has feats where he tags something moving faster than Frank should be able to (and vice versa of course).