What Will Go Through Your Mind When You See Jesus?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are living proof that God exists. Your brain is so complicated that thousands of neuroscientists have concluded that even with all of the research and studies that have been done on the human brain, there is still much that they do not know. Your brain is more complex than a computer (imagine that and think about that for a minute). Yet the computer had a designer. Logic dictates that if a complex computer had a designer, then your brain which is exponentially more complicated had to have a Designer as well. This is just logic and common sense.

To say that because a computer has a designer, therefore the brain must have a designer is not logical. It is like comparing apples and oranges.

The universe is far more wondrous and amazing. The complexity of the brain can be achieved without a designer.

Originally posted by Burning thought
the human brain needs not a designer other than time itself, there is no evidence that God excists and the bible is created by people alone.

you cannot prove otherwise because all your so called "evidence" is simply your narrow minded beliefs as well as bible stories, which is all they are, "stories", sure.....all in all the Bible is a good book, but it belongs in the fiction section of the libary, maybe just under Lord of the rings.

"Evolution is a fairy tale, and it is not possible."

so an all powerful being that created all life and history in the universe [B]IS possible?, riiigghhhtt (men prepare the straight jackets). I think a padded cell will do you some good, not to menstion Evolution has been proven in some forms of life through the research of bones compared to living organisms of today

so this brings us to the proof of the all powerful entity?...hmm..not much here is there, a book called the bible, obviously created by humans, of this anyone understands but "apparently" although no evidence can possibly suggest it, this all powerful entity called God gives us divine inspirtation for his stories......rigghht...(infact keep the straight jacket, it wont help this guy).

ime afraid your beliefs are fairy tale JIA and their only evidence is a book supposedly inspired to man by God.....how conveniant

i also find it so conveniant that he doesnt appear to us, conveniant that through all these beliefs and faiths and his infinite power that he just wants to watch over us, but no no no, modern times he cannot seem to manifest...why is this? why doesnt he come down to the Earth in true form...powerless?, i mean if hes so powerful why not? it seems according to your stories that Demons and Devils can do it frequently.

Computers designer is humans, so what? this imediatley means EVERYTHING has a designer?, nothing can possibly point to that, infact the scientific approach because at least they can prove certain things with values, not just their opinions and a false book is that the Earth is simply the product of the suns creation, pieces of rock brought together by gravity from the sun, the sun comes from nebula, which is left over sometimes after the death of a star OR as it is reducing to a mere white dwarf star, and so the process stars again. This all started according to science from the big bang which happened because of a primeval atom, which is far more beleivable that a godlike entity.

ofcourse your going to say, God made it happen...but ofcourse theres no proof in that.

also if you say something as complex as a human brain needs a designer, it seems according to you that God must of had a designer, the all powerful entity of infinite power, surely something so infinite and so complicated has a designer, ofcourse my answer is humans..we are his designer, ofcourse you would probably say he appeared from nowhere...or the conveniant "he was just there....nothing created him" madness..... [/B]

If this earth is a product of chance Burning thought then is you brain also a product of chance? Then that presupposes that your thoughts are also a product of chance. Question: why do things "need" to live? Isn't this the premise of natural selection, that the most fit organism beats out the less fit organism and then passes on its superior genes to its posterity? So why do organisms need to survive in the first place (explain this one)?

What is the reason why an organism has this need? Furthermore, if there is no God then there is no right or wrong because there are no absolutes right? So then how do you explain conscience? How do you explain why every single human being on the planet has a conscience if there is no God and no right and wrong (good luck explaining this one)?

Who says that murder is wrong? Who says that stealing is wrong if there are no absolutes? I thought the only law that mattered was the law of survival of the fittest? So then If I am more fit than you to survive then shouldn't I be able to take whatever you own by any means necessary (can you explain this one Burning thought)?

If there are no absolutes then why is crime wrong (I don't think that you have a good answer for this one)?

Why does every single circumstance vitally essential to support life on this planet exist in precise amounts? Everything that is needed for life to thrive (both in the plant kingdom, animal kingdom, insect kingdom, and in terms of human beings) exists in the proper balance. Question: Is this logical? Does this make a lick of sense to you that everything in this universe (I am speaking emphatically here not literally, but for the most part everything) overwhelmingly appears to function just like it is supposed to. How do you explain this inexplicable phenomena? You believe that all of this happenstance just occurred without design? You are not thinking logically. That is like walking into the Sistine Chapel (which is located in the Vatican) and concluding that the painting on the ceiling started with a "Big Bang explosion" which led to the creation of the components of paint (and a paint brush or other instrument used for painting), which later evolved into a variety of colors. Then (just out of nowhere) the Sistine Chapel evolved from a "Big Bang explosion or expansion" (by the way when has an explosion ever produced systematic design, beauty, and orderly arrangement?), then the paint chemicals (which formed themselves along with the paint brush and other painting utensils), created the most talked about, world-renowned (or at least one of the most renowned) painting ever in the history of art--all by itself (with no intelligent designer). You cannot be this ignorant (lacking knowledge not stupid) Burning thought.

There are nine vital systems in the human body that are all necessary for the human body to function optimally. If you just remove one of those complicated systems the human body becomes impaired and/or handicapped. Yet you believe that those nine systems are a product of random, chance occurrence (you have just inadvertently affirmed that the Sistine Chapel and the most famous painting inside of it just came about by random, chance occurrence.) The human body is so complicated that it takes an individual four years of college, three years of medical school, and two years of residency just to be able to treat it. But here is the kicker: you don't get to treat the entire body because it is so complicated that even after nine to eleven long years, and hours of study, homework, exams, and more exams, you are only qualified to specialize in one area of that human body (which you believe did not require an intelligent Designer). Yet, this is the same human body that you believe just happened, on its own, without any purpose or design (how can you believe such utter, absurd, asininity? You have abandoned all logic and common sense (forget intelligence, you have left all common sense at the door).

Moreover, why do you think that doctors have to specialize in an area of the body? Why don't doctors simply become experts in all areas of the body? I mean if the human body just evolved why does it take so many years of advanced education to care for or deal with it medically or surgically?

Doctors must specialize areas of the human body because it is so complicated. There is no way that doctors can ever no how all of it works, and how to treat it. General Practitioners must undergo rigorous education and training (four years undergraduate school, four years of medical school, three more years of specialized medical residency training in Family Medicine, plus a written examination periodically to remain Board-certified, and three hundred hours of continuing medical education within the prior six years is mandatory just to be eligible to take the exam.)

It does not require half as much education to repair an advanced car or complex computer. Yet you, in your wisdom and erudition (you savant you), have come to the brilliant deduction that the computer, and every other ingenious invention had to have an intelligent designer. But the idea that an all-powerful God (Who by default is all-knowing and intelligent) had anything to do with the existence of the human body with its nine complicated systems, not to mention the brain (I could write a book just on the complication of the brain alone), is completely ludicrous to you. *shakes head speechlessly*

Yet you believe that this complicated organism just came into being without an intelligent Designer? You probably own that the personal computer with all of its complication had to have a designer because it is so complex right? So then explain to me why you abandon all logic, common sense, and reason with respect to the human body and conclude that it did not need an intelligent Designer? The human brain just by itself is exceedingly more complicated than a computer (thousands of neuroscientists have admitted that even with all our technology that there is still much more to learn about the brain.) In fact, there is more that they do not know about the brain than what they do know about the brain. Computers are not even capable of thought, they simply do what they are programmed to do. Yet your brain thinks independent of any computer program, you don't need any hard rive, software, video card, sound card, mouse, monitor, printer, scanner, or keyboard to think, imagine, dream, invent, rationalize, express compassion, love, kindness, mercy, and reason. These characteristics are extremely more advanced than anything that a personal computer can do. Complicated human organisms created every single advance, complex, technological device and machine that exists on this earth and yet you believe that we have no intelligent Designer? In other words, you believe that human beings are all of a sudden exempt from the requiring an intelligent Designer? Every technology that humanity has invented came about by intelligent design. Since when is a thing that has been created more intelligent than the one who created it?

Burning thought, how else can you explain the high-level, advanced, phenomenal sophistication of the human body and the human brain (I'll be waiting)?

Yet you believe that this complicated organism just came into being without an intelligent Designer? You probably own that the personal computer with all of its complication had to have a designer because it is so complex right? So then explain to me why you abandon all logic, common sense, and reason with respect to the human body and conclude that it did not need an intelligent Designer? The human brain just by itself is exceedingly more complicated than a computer (thousands of neuroscientists have admitted that even with all our technology that there is [B]still much more to learn about the brain.) In fact, there is more that they do not know about the brain than what they do know about the brain. Computers are not even capable of thought, they simply do what they are programmed to do. Yet your brain thinks independent of any computer program (I'd love for you to explain how the brain does this.

you don't need any hard rive, software, video card, sound card, mouse, monitor, printer, scanner, or keyboard to think, imagine, dream, invent, rationalize, express compassion, love, kindness, mercy, and reason. These characteristics are extremely more advanced than anything that a personal computer can do. Complicated human organisms created every single advance, complex, technological device and machine that exists on this earth and yet you (in your erudition) believe that we have no intelligent Designer? It is amazing to me that every other human invention obeys the laws of cause and effect (i.e. it was designed by an intelligent designer), but in terms of organisms (such as the human body together with its sophisticated machinery called the brain, which neuroscientists admit they still do not understand how it really works).

Question: Since when is a thing (i.e. every complicated human invention including the computers which virtually run every electronic device on earth) more intelligent than the one who created it?

Oh, I almost forgot something:

*kicks myself for being remiss*

Explain consciousness (why are we aware of our existence if God is not responsible for this enigmatic phenomena?) Neuroscientists (with all of their degrees, and years (or should I say eons?) of study, research, probing, testing, analysis, journals, think-tanks, and collective minds *whew* are still perplexed about this God-made (oops, sorry it just slipped out) random, chance occurrence-made phenomena called consciousness.

Note: I do not have to put you down or scorn you Burning thought (that would be counterproductive), I simply hit you with the facts (like an intelligent person is supposed to do).

Uh, oh, I didn't mean to write with such prolixity (that darn brain of mind) I'll have to split this into two posts.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There are nine [b]vital systems in the human body that are all necessary for the human body to function optimally. If you just remove one of those complicated systems the human body becomes impaired and/or handicapped. Yet you believe that those nine systems are a product of random, chance occurrence (you have just inadvertently affirmed that the Sistine Chapel and the most famous painting inside of it just came about by random, chance occurrence.) The human body is so complicated that it takes an individual four years of college, three years of medical school, and two years of residency just to be able to treat it. But here is the kicker: you don't get to treat the entire body because it is so complicated that even after nine to eleven long years, and hours of study, homework, exams, and more exams, you are only qualified to specialize in one area of that human body (which you believe did not require an intelligent Designer). Yet, this is the same human body that you believe just happened, on its own, without any purpose or design (how can you believe such utter, absurd, asininity? You have abandoned all logic and common sense (forget intelligence, you have left all common sense at the door).

Moreover, why do you think that doctors have to specialize in an area of the body? Why don't doctors simply become experts in all areas of the body? I mean if the human body just evolved why does it take so many years of advanced education to care for or deal with it medically or surgically?

Doctors must specialize areas of the human body because it is so complicated. There is no way that doctors can ever no how all of it works, and how to treat it. General Practitioners must undergo rigorous education and training (four years undergraduate school, four years of medical school, three more years of specialized medical residency training in Family Medicine, plus a written examination periodically to remain Board-certified, and three hundred hours of continuing medical education within the prior six years is mandatory just to be eligible to take the exam.)

It does not require half as much education to repair an advanced car or complex computer. Yet you, in your wisdom and erudition (you savant you), have come to the brilliant deduction that the computer, and every other ingenious invention had to have an intelligent designer. But the idea that an all-powerful God (Who by default is all-knowing and intelligent) had anything to do with the existence of the human body with its nine complicated systems, not to mention the brain (I could write a book just on the complication of the brain alone), is completely ludicrous to you. *shakes head speechlessly*

Yet you believe that this complicated organism just came into being without an intelligent Designer? You probably own that the personal computer with all of its complication had to have a designer because it is so complex right? So then explain to me why you abandon all logic, common sense, and reason with respect to the human body and conclude that it did not need an intelligent Designer? The human brain just by itself is exceedingly more complicated than a computer (thousands of neuroscientists have admitted that even with all our technology that there is still much more to learn about the brain.) In fact, there is more that they do not know about the brain than what they do know about the brain. Computers are not even capable of thought, they simply do what they are programmed to do. Yet your brain thinks independent of any computer program, you don't need any hard rive, software, video card, sound card, mouse, monitor, printer, scanner, or keyboard to think, imagine, dream, invent, rationalize, express compassion, love, kindness, mercy, and reason. These characteristics are extremely more advanced than anything that a personal computer can do. Complicated human organisms created every single advance, complex, technological device and machine that exists on this earth and yet you believe that we have no intelligent Designer? In other words, you believe that human beings are all of a sudden exempt from the requiring an intelligent Designer? Every technology that humanity has invented came about by intelligent design. Since when is a thing that has been created more intelligent than the one who created it?

Burning thought, how else can you explain the high-level, advanced, phenomenal sophistication of the human body and the human brain (I'll be waiting)?

Yet you believe that this complicated organism just came into being without an intelligent Designer? You probably own that the personal computer with all of its complication had to have a designer because it is so complex right? So then explain to me why you abandon all logic, common sense, and reason with respect to the human body and conclude that it did not need an intelligent Designer? The human brain just by itself is exceedingly more complicated than a computer (thousands of neuroscientists have admitted that even with all our technology that there is [B]still much more to learn about the brain.) In fact, there is more that they do not know about the brain than what they do know about the brain. Computers are not even capable of thought, they simply do what they are programmed to do. Yet your brain thinks independent of any computer program (I'd love for you to explain how the brain does this.

you don't need any hard rive, software, video card, sound card, mouse, monitor, printer, scanner, or keyboard to think, imagine, dream, invent, rationalize, express compassion, love, kindness, mercy, and reason. These characteristics are extremely more advanced than anything that a personal computer can do. Complicated human organisms created every single advance, complex, technological device and machine that exists on this earth and yet you (in your erudition) believe that we have no intelligent Designer? It is amazing to me that every other human invention obeys the laws of cause and effect (i.e. it was designed by an intelligent designer), but in terms of organisms (such as the human body together with its sophisticated machinery called the brain, which neuroscientists admit they still do not understand how it really works).

Question: Since when is a thing (i.e. every complicated human invention including the computers which virtually run every electronic device on earth) more intelligent than the one who created it?

Oh, I almost forgot something:

*kicks myself for being remiss*

Explain consciousness (why are we aware of our existence if God is not responsible for this enigmatic phenomena?) Neuroscientists (with all of their degrees, and years (or should I say eons?) of study, research, probing, testing, analysis, journals, think-tanks, and collective minds *whew* are still perplexed about this God-made (oops, sorry it just slipped out) random, chance occurrence-made phenomena called consciousness.

Note: I do not have to put you down or scorn you Burning thought (that would be counterproductive), I simply hit you with the facts (like an intelligent person is supposed to do).

Uh, oh, I didn't mean to write with such prolixity (that darn brain of mind) I'll have to split this into two posts. [/B]

I'm going to respond to this giant piece of sh*t. Please give me time to write my response.

simple stuff JIA, i can answer all of these

"If this earth is a product of chance Burning thought then is you brain also a product of chance? Then that presupposes that your thoughts are also a product of chance. Question: why do things "need" to live? Isn't this the premise of natural selection, that the most fit organism beats out the less fit organism and then passes on its superior genes to its posterity? So why do organisms need to survive in the first place (explain this one)? "

my Brain as is every humans not truly a product of chance, not if you look deep into our genetic intake from out parents, but yes, the Earth and everything is a product of chance, there is no reason why it couldnt be, a combination of forces bringing together things, gravity, there was an easy chance that the solarsystem would never have been created where it is now if the nebula was not large enough by the time it got here and so it ended up somewhere diffrent in space, there is a chance we wouldnt excist because the star that exploded to create such nebula never exploded at all, and another space anomoly such as a black hole simply swallowed it, all chances, its not difficult, just like the chance that a coin will land heads up is of an equel chance that it will land tails up. Our brain and thoughts are not products of chance, they are products of our own genetics, our brains content to an extent could be a prodcut of chance depending on our personalities that we usually get while growing up and learning from diffrent people who we are.

your answer to "why things need to live".....basically..they dont, we (on average ignoring suicides and the like) want to live, our brains tell us that we want to live, our senses as animals, determination, life doesnt have to excist, if a nuclear war happened and all life on Earth was destroyed, if (how i believe it) no God excists and there is nothing after death then nothing happens, were gone....the universe will keep expanding, our sun will eventually power down and die etc etc.

next question
What is the reason why an organism has this need? Furthermore, if there is no God then there is no right or wrong because there are no absolutes right? So then how do you explain conscience? How do you explain why every single human being on the planet has a conscience if there is no God and no right and wrong (good luck explaining this one)?

this is simple JIA, the Organism has this need because its an organism, its brain tells it to stay alive, eat...reproduce and then if its old or weak die, simple life cycle, then it starts again. Right and wrong is not determined by God or Satan, it is determined by humans, thousands of years ago if a cave man murdered and raped anothers wife and stole its possessions he would feel guilty because he knew that person, knows that although they have diffrences that he is actually of the same race, not to menstion attachment humans can have to things, people, the victim of this autrocity would have Anger, and concience will probably go out the window until he murders his enemy for this act, this is no divine gift, this is work of the brain, thoughts. In modern life right and wrong is still determined by Humans, only more specificially with laws to keep us in line, if someone commits a crime against the law they feel frightened by the prospect of prison or other punishments more than guilt id wager, but if they murder they certainly feel guilt in most cases, ofcourse theres always those who feel good about murder of an enemy, but as with the cavemen, as simple as they were compared to humans today its still all around the brains reactions and how the individual depending on their bring up, someone always seeing violence from their parents is more likely to be violent and be less concious of their actions and so do not care so much.

"Who says that murder is wrong? Who says that stealing is wrong if there are no absolutes? I thought the only law that mattered was the law of survival of the fittest? So then If I am more fit than you to survive then shouldn't I be able to take whatever you own by any means necessary "

you wouldnt if you knew that it wasnt really going to be worth your time would you, i mean you as a person, your brain is influenced by your belief so you wouldnt steal anyway, your own religion and that of the church is one of those useful things that helps keep people from doing wicked acts, it makes them feel that if they do, they go to hell or if they do right, they go to heaven..ofcourse i feel this is all it is, like another law passed on by humans, only created more inteligently to make it not look like a law, but it still has a similiar impact. People dont want terrorism and violence, it costs money, it costs time to repair criminal act, people who steal takes time and money to find the culprit, simply to keep order, not because Gods divine conciousness hes blessed us with tells us to do so.

"If there are no absolutes then why is crime wrong "
A good answer for this is all of the above, because humans say its wrong, if everyone is against you your unlikely to succeed in the crime, and its also a matter of prespective, for example Robin hood steals from the rich and gives to the poor, the crime of stealing is wrong, but hes helping the poor by doing it, so wheres the crime really? keeping the poor weak and possibly dieing because they cant afford anything, or stealing to help them? its all human moral decisions that humans themselves figuire out, not god.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

Why does every single circumstance [B]vitally essential to support life on this planet exist in precise amounts? Everything that is needed for life to thrive (both in the plant kingdom, animal kingdom, insect kingdom, and in terms of human beings) exists in the proper balance. Question: Is this logical? Does this make a lick of sense to you that everything in this universe (I am speaking emphatically here not literally, but for the most part everything) overwhelmingly appears to function just like it is supposed to. How do you explain this inexplicable phenomena? You believe that all of this happenstance just occurred without design? You are not thinking logically. That is like walking into the Sistine Chapel (which is located in the Vatican) and concluding that the painting on the ceiling started with a "Big Bang explosion" which led to the creation of the components of paint (and a paint brush or other instrument used for painting), which later evolved into a variety of colors. Then (just out of nowhere) the Sistine Chapel evolved from a "Big Bang explosion or expansion" (by the way when has an explosion ever produced systematic design, beauty, and orderly arrangement?), then the paint chemicals (which formed themselves along with the paint brush and other painting utensils), created the most talked about, world-renowned (or at least one of the most renowned) painting ever in the history of art--all by itself (with no intelligent designer). You cannot be this ignorant (lacking knowledge not stupid) Burning thought. [/B]

my friend here ime afraid you are wrong....it is not how its supposed to work because of the human element, there is not a precise amount of food for everyone because their are actually people who starve, if it was so perfectly precise they wouldnt be starving, humans themsleves are destroying the planet with all their machinery and such, breaking trees and the like. A lot of essential life elements on the planet is simple circumtance, the location of the Earth, we were simply lucky, it doesnt take much to annihilate the earth, we ourselves could do it now, it doesnt take god to take away our planet or judge us, if there was a nuclear war now, it would all be gone, all gods churches, he couldnt save them, they would all be radioactive ruin...logically this planet simply evolved over time like the creatures did, taking into account the belief that this planet was formed through time and the parts of the suns creation, from the beginning of the Earths creaton, the evolution of the planet allowed it to evolve the things it needed, plants evolved because in their early stages their leaves were not vibrant enough to attract insects to move their seeds and preproduce and the like, so they evolved with greater attractiveness, the first spieces of fish did not suit their habitat so precisely hundreds of thousands year ago, so they had to evolve and over time, they evolved diffrently with perhaps legs and turned into amphibions. It took time and evolution to get things working for each other, and still although you seem to think it is, its not precise and working, its actually quite crooked

"There are nine vital systems in the human body that are all necessary for the human body to function optimally. If you just remove one of those complicated systems the human body becomes impaired and/or handicapped. Yet you believe that those nine systems are a product of random, chance occurrence (you have just inadvertently affirmed that the Sistine Chapel and the most famous painting inside of it just came about by random, chance occurrence.) The human body is so complicated that it takes an individual four years of college, three years of medical school, and two years of residency just to be able to treat it. But here is the kicker: you don't get to treat the entire body because it is so complicated that even after nine to eleven long years, and hours of study, homework, exams, and more exams, you are only qualified to specialize in one area of that human body (which you believe did not require an intelligent Designer). Yet, this is the same human body that you believe just happened, on its own, without any purpose or design (how can you believe such utter, absurd, asininity? You have abandoned all logic and common sense (forget intelligence, you have left all common sense at the door). "

that sounds like your getting upset, my points are actually probably starting to make sense to you and you are trying to grip onto your beliefs.

in answer to this however your talking foolish, your the only one who starts talking about the body with random chance, this is not random chance, its genetic, from human to human, a combination of evolution over great time, and creation in the mothers womb over a year or so, nothing about the human body is random chance, also its difficult and complicated because humans need a long amount of understanding of peoples bodies so they dont end up killing people their supposed to save, but its still only a matter of reading up and study to understand it, this gives no thought or reason to believe a divine entity needed to design it, i think thousands of years evolution and genetics is more than enough. Its not always someone who "designs" to use your word, it could simply be natural processes.

"Moreover, why do you think that doctors have to specialize in an area of the body? Why don't doctors simply become experts in all areas of the body? I mean if the human body just evolved why does it take so many years of advanced education to care for or deal with it medically or surgically? "

thats been answered really, because humans brains are not limitless balls of intellect, they can only hold some much information, if someone tried to master all aspects they could end up forgetting other parts, as well as end up damaging people through foolishness, also take into consideration the laws we spoke off earlier, it just wouldnt be fair as a job role if people could take the job of all specifications, jobs would lesson, think of the problems this would lead to.

"It does not require half as much education to repair an advanced car or complex computer. Yet you, in your wisdom and erudition (you savant you), have come to the brilliant deduction that the computer, and every other ingenious invention had to have an intelligent designer. But the idea that an all-powerful God (Who by default is all-knowing and intelligent) had anything to do with the existence of the human body with its nine complicated systems, not to mention the brain (I could write a book just on the complication of the brain alone), is completely ludicrous to you. *shakes head speechlessly* "

computers and fixing cars are difficult processes, the thing about the human body is that it IS complicated, but just because someone creates something, for example a woman and man creates a child doesnt mean they know everything about it, i can build my own computer, but i dont know how every little piece works, how every chip is configuired to give me the right effects, you also have to consider the fact that these are just machines, if someone breaks a computer its just money, if a doctor kills a patient, hell not only feel worthless as a doctor but also guilty for killing someones loved one, not to menstion go to court, it needs more understanding because its not only more complicated but more is at stake if it goes wrong.

"Yet you believe that this complicated organism just came into being without an intelligent Designer? You probably own that the personal computer with all of its complication had to have a designer because it is so complex right? So then explain to me why you abandon all logic, common sense, and reason with respect to the human body and conclude that it did not need an intelligent Designer? The human brain just by itself is exceedingly more complicated than a computer (thousands of neuroscientists have admitted that even with all our technology that there is still much more to learn about the brain.) In fact, there is more that they do not know about the brain than what they do know about the brain. Computers are not even capable of thought, they simply do what they are programmed to do. Yet your brain thinks independent of any computer program, you don't need any hard rive, software, video card, sound card, mouse, monitor, printer, scanner, or keyboard to think, imagine, dream, invent, rationalize, express compassion, love, kindness, mercy, and reason. These characteristics are extremely more advanced than anything that a personal computer can do. Complicated human organisms created every single advance, complex, technological device and machine that exists on this earth and yet you believe that we have no intelligent Designer? In other words, you believe that human beings are all of a sudden exempt from the requiring an intelligent Designer? Every technology that humanity has invented came about by intelligent design. Since when is a thing that has been created more intelligent than the one who created it? "

more foolishness....look, organisms dont need designers other than Time, evolution to create the overall form and life styles, for example humans have evolved from huts, stone buildings to steel sky scrapers, its another form of evolution, not biological, but still evolution, were still evolving, our minds are evolving, were becoming the creators. The complicated nature of biological organisms is simply because they are a diffrent more difficult science rather than mechanical and electrical, all it takes is a few scientific breakthroughs to allow us to master parts of our bodies, just time and evolution my friend, learning? good good, your right its complicated, but complicated things dont need "intelligent designers" especially Godlike divinities.

"Burning thought, how else can you explain the high-level, advanced, phenomenal sophistication of the human body and the human brain (I'll be waiting)? "
i have in the last few posts, learn my friend, time AND evolution, thats all it takes, no god, no all powerful entity controlling us and creating us, simply man+woman+reproduction=human, please dont turn round and say you dont know how to have sex?, creating something is not truly difficult, just a enjoyable few hours and here we have it, the beginning of a baby (ok its not AS simple as that, it still uses time and genetics over a period of 18 months average to create, but its not too difficult is it to require a godlike being)

"Yet you believe that this complicated organism just came into being without an intelligent Designer? You probably own that the personal computer with all of its complication had to have a designer because it is so complex right? So then explain to me why you abandon all logic, common sense, and reason with respect to the human body and conclude that it did not need an intelligent Designer? The human brain just by itself is exceedingly more complicated than a computer (thousands of neuroscientists have admitted that even with all our technology that there is [B]still much more to learn about the brain.) In fact, there is more that they do not know about the brain than what they do know about the brain. Computers are not even capable of thought, they simply do what they are programmed to do. Yet your brain thinks independent of any computer program (I'd love for you to explain how the brain does this. "

easily explained, theres chunks of your brain that over time have developed, genetics and evolution, when a baby is born it learns from its parents, the little grey cells in its mind start to understand things, the brain does this because from the beginning of time and evolution the thing has evolved, the first people to excist were not as intelligent as people of today, infact its been proven that peoples brains have become larger, finding show that there have been huminoid bone structures (possibly a missing link) that had a skull far smaller than humans but was the shape of a humans, not an ape. The Human brain once again, Time and evolution.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are living proof that God exists. Your brain is so complicated that thousands of neuroscientists have concluded that even with all of the research and studies that have been done on the human brain, there is still much that they do not know. Your brain is more complex than a computer (imagine that and think about that for a minute). Yet the computer had a designer. Logic dictates that if a complex computer had a designer, then your brain which is exponentially more complicated had to have a Designer as well. This is just logic and common sense.

Logic dictates that the computer had designers, as in the plural. Therefore, according to that logic, there is more than one God; more than one designer.
The whole designer argument is full of holes.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Logic dictates that the computer had designers, as in the plural. Therefore, according to that logic, there is more than one God; more than one designer.
The whole designer argument is full of holes.

not to menstion it does not make sense, an organism doesnt need a designer in the first place

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There are nine [b]vital systems in the human body that are all necessary for the human body to function optimally. If you just remove one of those complicated systems the human body becomes impaired and/or handicapped. Yet you believe that those nine systems are a product of random, chance occurrence (you have just inadvertently affirmed that the Sistine Chapel and the most famous painting inside of it just came about by random, chance occurrence.) The human body is so complicated that it takes an individual four years of college, three years of medical school, and two years of residency just to be able to treat it. But here is the kicker: you don't get to treat the entire body because it is so complicated that even after nine to eleven long years, and hours of study, homework, exams, and more exams, you are only qualified to specialize in one area of that human body (which you believe did not require an intelligent Designer). Yet, this is the same human body that you believe just happened, on its own, without any purpose or design (how can you believe such utter, absurd, asininity? You have abandoned all logic and common sense (forget intelligence, you have left all common sense at the door).

Moreover, why do you think that doctors have to specialize in an area of the body? Why don't doctors simply become experts in all areas of the body? I mean if the human body just evolved why does it take so many years of advanced education to care for or deal with it medically or surgically?

Doctors must specialize areas of the human body because it is so complicated. There is no way that doctors can ever no how all of it works, and how to treat it. General Practitioners must undergo rigorous education and training (four years undergraduate school, four years of medical school, three more years of specialized medical residency training in Family Medicine, plus a written examination periodically to remain Board-certified, and three hundred hours of continuing medical education within the prior six years is mandatory just to be eligible to take the exam.)

It does not require half as much education to repair an advanced car or complex computer. Yet you, in your wisdom and erudition (you savant you), have come to the brilliant deduction that the computer, and every other ingenious invention had to have an intelligent designer. But the idea that an all-powerful God (Who by default is all-knowing and intelligent) had anything to do with the existence of the human body with its nine complicated systems, not to mention the brain (I could write a book just on the complication of the brain alone), is completely ludicrous to you. *shakes head speechlessly*

Yet you believe that this complicated organism just came into being without an intelligent Designer? You probably own that the personal computer with all of its complication had to have a designer because it is so complex right? So then explain to me why you abandon all logic, common sense, and reason with respect to the human body and conclude that it did not need an intelligent Designer? The human brain just by itself is exceedingly more complicated than a computer (thousands of neuroscientists have admitted that even with all our technology that there is still much more to learn about the brain.) In fact, there is more that they do not know about the brain than what they do know about the brain. Computers are not even capable of thought, they simply do what they are programmed to do. Yet your brain thinks independent of any computer program, you don't need any hard rive, software, video card, sound card, mouse, monitor, printer, scanner, or keyboard to think, imagine, dream, invent, rationalize, express compassion, love, kindness, mercy, and reason. These characteristics are extremely more advanced than anything that a personal computer can do. Complicated human organisms created every single advance, complex, technological device and machine that exists on this earth and yet you believe that we have no intelligent Designer? In other words, you believe that human beings are all of a sudden exempt from the requiring an intelligent Designer? Every technology that humanity has invented came about by intelligent design. Since when is a thing that has been created more intelligent than the one who created it?

Burning thought, how else can you explain the high-level, advanced, phenomenal sophistication of the human body and the human brain (I'll be waiting)?

Yet you believe that this complicated organism just came into being without an intelligent Designer? You probably own that the personal computer with all of its complication had to have a designer because it is so complex right? So then explain to me why you abandon all logic, common sense, and reason with respect to the human body and conclude that it did not need an intelligent Designer? The human brain just by itself is exceedingly more complicated than a computer (thousands of neuroscientists have admitted that even with all our technology that there is [B]still much more to learn about the brain.) In fact, there is more that they do not know about the brain than what they do know about the brain. Computers are not even capable of thought, they simply do what they are programmed to do. Yet your brain thinks independent of any computer program (I'd love for you to explain how the brain does this.

you don't need any hard rive, software, video card, sound card, mouse, monitor, printer, scanner, or keyboard to think, imagine, dream, invent, rationalize, express compassion, love, kindness, mercy, and reason. These characteristics are extremely more advanced than anything that a personal computer can do. Complicated human organisms created every single advance, complex, technological device and machine that exists on this earth and yet you (in your erudition) believe that we have no intelligent Designer? It is amazing to me that every other human invention obeys the laws of cause and effect (i.e. it was designed by an intelligent designer), but in terms of organisms (such as the human body together with its sophisticated machinery called the brain, which neuroscientists admit they still do not understand how it really works).

Question: Since when is a thing (i.e. every complicated human invention including the computers which virtually run every electronic device on earth) more intelligent than the one who created it?

Oh, I almost forgot something:

*kicks myself for being remiss*

Explain consciousness (why are we aware of our existence if God is not responsible for this enigmatic phenomena?) Neuroscientists (with all of their degrees, and years (or should I say eons?) of study, research, probing, testing, analysis, journals, think-tanks, and collective minds *whew* are still perplexed about this God-made (oops, sorry it just slipped out) random, chance occurrence-made phenomena called consciousness.

Note: I do not have to put you down or scorn you Burning thought (that would be counterproductive), I simply hit you with the facts (like an intelligent person is supposed to do).

Uh, oh, I didn't mean to write with such prolixity (that darn brain of mind) I'll have to split this into two posts. [/B]

First off you keep talking about how "complex" the human is, well yes it is but that is after millions of millions of years of evolution, life didn't start out "complex". As for doctors only studying "one" part of the body it is not that it is so complex but the limit to the human mind in general, interest or the doctor, and liability with the insurance company. I could keep pointing out more flaws especially since my wife is in medical school but again I could show you all the proof in the world but you would simply deny it.

OH, how about responding to my post about the "designer" logic? 😉

I'd love to see how a book by JIA about the human brain would be recieved by the medical community 🙄

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
To say that because a computer has a designer, therefore the brain must have a designer is not logical. It is like comparing apples and oranges.

The universe is far more wondrous and amazing. The complexity of the brain can be achieved without a designer.

I have to agree with you on this statement. JIA should take into account that we've been making computers for less than a century, and it took 4.6 billion years before we came about, so there's kind of a difference in how much time something has had to develop.

Originally posted by AngryManatee
I have to agree with you on this statement. JIA should take into account that we've been making computers for less than a century, and it took 4.6 billion years before we came about, so there's kind of a difference in how much time something has had to develop.

But still people see it as black or white. Creation with intelligence made by a god, or evolution with no intelligence. There could be a third possibility.

Originally posted by debbiejo
But still people see it as black or white. Creation with intelligence made by a god, or evolution with no intelligence. There could be a third possibility.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Or a giant 3rd grader created us in a science experiment 😉

He's not a 3rd grader, he's a 4th grader! You Heathen. 😠 😂

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
He's not a 3rd grader, he's a 4th grader! You Heathen. 😠 😂

Originally posted by ThePittman
Oh yea, that was last year 😛

But god never changes. 😕

The biggest problem with the whole God thing, JIA. Is that Christians say that God is benevolent, but there's plenty of evidence contrary to that. If Christians got that wrong, what else have they got wrong?