Originally posted by quanchi112
what? please reread it. in the same story they couldnt place superboy back becuz of the possible damage it could cause if they messed with the timestream. this has been misinterpreted. it has to do with the amount of delicate care of anyone messing with with the time stream in any way.desaad what have u to say with regards to thanos being a better planner than ds, better hand to hand fighter, and being far more successful than ds.
I just re read it.
Here is a quote from issue 29, from Darkseid himself...
"Explain how you have avoided the inherent dangers? Take one as powerful as WE from the timeline, and time itself will collapse".
AS POWERFUL AS.
It was directly related to his power.
Originally posted by Desaadthe same thing could happen if superboy wasnt returned at the exact moment. any being of power could fry up the time stream not just darkseid's. legion had to be very delicate when messing with the timestream.
I just re read it.Here is a quote from issue 29, from Darkseid himself...
"Explain how you have avoided the inherent dangers? Take one as powerful as WE from the timeline, and time itself will collapse".
AS POWERFUL AS.
It was directly related to his power.
Originally posted by quanchi112
desaad, u believe thanos to be luckier than darkseid? i think not. look at genesis for instance. ares outprepped him. its just darkseid isnt as good as advertised. this was hi cahnce at getting a powerup but he was beaten to the punch. this seems to happen to darkseid a lot doesnt it?
Lets look at Genesis.
Darkseid and his cronies figured out, through research and philosophy, what the Godwave was, and predicted its course like no one else could. Yeah, Ares piggybacked on Darkseid's knowledge, but it was ultimately Darkseid who had the upper hand when he trapped Ares in the wall.
It was Darkseid who orchestrated the building of the base by the Source Wall, he planned the whole thing, he figured out a way to harness the power. Thanos harnesses his power by picking up an object. See the difference?
Look at his subtler schemes. Darkseid - alone - creates a way to punch through reality and into the Source itself! Wow, what a feat in and of itself!
But thats just one aspect of his plan. He lures Orion into the source, fights him, pretends to die by Orion's hand. In doing so, he corrupts Orion, corrupts the source and, through the source, corrupts New Genesis and the universe at large, allowing him to take control of the situation.
Look at his scheme with Orion in the Orion series, "the father wielding the son as an instrument", his plan to slowly but surely corrupt Orion -- a plan which worked TOO well!
Look at his plan to defeat the Anti Life wielding Orion.
Look at his plan to start the first techno-cosmic war between Apokolips and New Genesis, and in the chaos of war take control of Apokolips for himself!
Look at his plan in Action 600, simple by many standards, but guys like Braniac have succeeded with the same tactics!
Look at his subtle manipulations of the Greek and Roman pantheons!
I could make a list that would be quite staggering of what I'm talking about, but I'm going to leave it for now.
Originally posted by quanchi112
the same thing could happen if superboy wasnt returned at the exact moment. any being of power could fry up the time stream not just darkseid's. legion had to be very delicate when messing with the timestream.
I don't see anything indicating that to be true.
The fact that they were successfully able to take young Clark Kent out of the timestream - or Kon-El for that matter - indicates that it takes a power level significantly ABOVE the Superman class.
Basically, what Darkseid did to himself, he also did to Clark, and there were no ill effects.
Originally posted by Desaadim not saying it would have the same effect im saying that messing with the timestream could cause catastrophic events. that is why they just didnt place him back. not saying all of reality would go up in smoke but that messing with anything in the time stream with no regard for it could prove disastrous.
I don't see anything indicating that to be true.The fact that they were successfully able to take young Clark Kent out of the timestream - or Kon-El for that matter - indicates that it takes a power level significantly ABOVE the Superman class.
Basically, what Darkseid did to himself, he also did to Clark, and there were no ill effects.
Sure, I have no doubt that messing with the time stream is going to cause problems whether you pick out Joe Schmoe or Odin.
But that is a standard of fiction, going back to the beginnings of sci fi. Hardly a new concept.
In this case, though, specific mention is given to power level coming into play, that power level is what results in the destruction of the universe/timeline.
Since they were successfully able to rip out Superman, who would eventually become a top tier and even further down the road become a far above top tier, and not Darkseid, I think that says something about his power level, yeah.
Originally posted by Desaadu again misunderstand what i say. im not saying that darkseid isnt very good at planning. he just isnt good at succeeding in his plans. it doesnt matter that ares piggybacked on ds or not. point is he was smartert than ds. he outprepped him and knew where to be at the right moment. hes even smarter for having ds do all the work.
Lets look at Genesis.Darkseid and his cronies figured out, through research and philosophy, what the Godwave was, and predicted its course like no one else could. Yeah, Ares piggybacked on Darkseid's knowledge, but it was ultimately Darkseid who had the upper hand when he trapped Ares in the wall.
It was Darkseid who orchestrated the building of the base by the Source Wall, he planned the whole thing, he figured out a way to harness the power. Thanos harnesses his power by picking up an object. See the difference?
Look at his subtler schemes. Darkseid - alone - creates a way to punch through reality and into the Source itself! Wow, what a feat in and of itself!
But thats just one aspect of his plan. He lures Orion into the source, fights him, pretends to die by Orion's hand. In doing so, he corrupts Orion, corrupts the source and, through the source, corrupts New Genesis and the universe at large, allowing him to take control of the situation.
Look at his scheme with Orion in the Orion series, "the father wielding the son as an instrument", his plan to slowly but surely corrupt Orion -- a plan which worked TOO well!
Look at his plan to defeat the Anti Life wielding Orion.
Look at his plan to start the first techno-cosmic war between Apokolips and New Genesis, and in the chaos of war take control of Apokolips for himself!
Look at his plan in Action 600, simple by many standards, but guys like Braniac have succeeded with the same tactics!
Look at his subtle manipulations of the Greek and Roman pantheons!
I could make a list that would be quite staggering of what I'm talking about, but I'm going to leave it for now.
its like ur admiring darkseid for all his accomplishmetns and while that is fine and dandy why can i not praise thanos for doing all that and more. the thanos quest wasnt easy. he went out and beat the elders which is a feat in itself. u want to say i think that it was to easy and was all laid out for him. he was pointed in the right direction and did the rest.
ds has struggled with new genesis in general. its like the old heman neverending battle. its like darkseid will be stuck fighting them forever never to gain any real ground. that to me is failure. he cant escape this. sure skeletor also got real close and may have had heman whooped. but at the end of the day heman still ruled eternia.
i dont care how ingenious darkseid is or how subtle its simple u either fail or succeed. i dont award him difficulty points for what he was attempting and how difficult it was. you either accomplish ur goals or u dont.
Originally posted by Desaadyes it does. but superman has never been as powerful as darkseid to me. he has been capable of beating ds. but ds has always been more powerful. hasnt it been said in comics before and i may be wrong. but if batman or superman dies it would cause hell over the multiverse. i may be wrong about this.
Sure, I have no doubt that messing with the time stream is going to cause problems whether you pick out Joe Schmoe or Odin.But that is a standard of fiction, going back to the beginnings of sci fi. Hardly a new concept.
In this case, though, specific mention is given to power level coming into play, that power level is what results in the destruction of the universe/timeline.
Since they were successfully able to rip out Superman, who would eventually become a top tier and even further down the road become a far above top tier, and not Darkseid, I think that says something about his power level, yeah.
Originally posted by quanchi112
u again misunderstand what i say. im not saying that darkseid isnt very good at planning. he just isnt good at succeeding in his plans. it doesnt matter that ares piggybacked on ds or not. point is he was smartert than ds. he outprepped him and knew where to be at the right moment. hes even smarter for having ds do all the work.
Not necessarily. Its been a while since I've read Genesis, but I don't think Ares planned this out across the Eons. It was more of a spur of the moment thing, and Darkseid didn't plan for his involvement.
Certainly, thats Darkseid's bad, but Darkseid DID correct the problem after all.
its like ur admiring darkseid for all his accomplishmetns and while that is fine and dandy why can i not praise thanos for doing all that and more. the thanos quest wasnt easy. he went out and beat the elders which is a feat in itself. u want to say i think that it was to easy and was all laid out for him. he was pointed in the right direction and did the rest.
You can argue that Thanos Quest was a physical feat for Darkseid, but no, it wasn't an intellectual feat.
He was told about the true nature of and location of the gems by the Infinity Well. From there, he went around to the weaker ones and beat them up, and then used the gems to beat the more powerful ones up as he went along. Thats something that the Savage Hulk could think of.
He succeeded, but then again so does the Savage Hulk. Repeatedly.
Doesn't change the fact that the plan in and of itself sucks.
ds has struggled with new genesis in general. its like the old heman neverending battle. its like darkseid will be stuck fighting them forever never to gain any real ground. that to me is failure. he cant escape this.
Sure, but considering that the conflagration between the two powers nearly destroyed the universe, its hardly a "bad show" for Darkseid. New Genesis is simply the polar opposite of Darkseid, the equal and opposite.
And, of course, Darkseid beat them in Rock of Ages and in Seven Soldiers.
i dont care how ingenious darkseid is or how subtle its simple u either fail or succeed. i dont award him difficulty points for what he was attempting and how difficult it was. you either accomplish ur goals or u dont.
Thats your perogative. I think I've made my point as clear as I can make it, and if you don't understand my bobby fisher analogy then we should probably just leave it at this.
Originally posted by quanchi112
yes it does. but superman has never been as powerful as darkseid to me. he has been capable of beating ds. but ds has always been more powerful. hasnt it been said in comics before and i may be wrong. but if batman or superman dies it would cause hell over the multiverse. i may be wrong about this.
This is all semantically conjecture.
I don't know what to say to you other than that it was clearly a power based "feat", which is what you originally asked me, isn't it?
Originally posted by Desaadares said he knew about the godwave and this event before darkseid was born i believe. ares knew before ds knew. before ds was born i believe it says. seven soldiers isnt canon. i havent read rock of ages but i have to give credit there to darkseid from what i hear. its an accomplishment. thanos didnt physically beat down all the elders. his used his wits and beat each elder according to how it needed to be done. he matched wits with grandmaster whos no joke at planning. grandmaster knew and thanos outcheated the cheater. hes that good. thanos adapts on the fly better than ds to. he rolls with the punches. young ds responded i dont know to his men in foundations on how to svae himself and them when the timestream was about to kill them.
Not necessarily. Its been a while since I've read Genesis, but I don't think Ares planned this out across the Eons. It was more of a spur of the moment thing, and Darkseid didn't plan for his involvement.Certainly, thats Darkseid's bad, but Darkseid DID correct the problem after all.
You can argue that Thanos Quest was a physical feat for Darkseid, but no, it wasn't an intellectual feat.
He was told about the true nature of and location of the gems by the Infinity Well. From there, he went around to the weaker ones and beat them up, and then used the gems to beat the more powerful ones up as he went along. Thats something that the Savage Hulk could think of.
He succeeded, but then again so does the Savage Hulk. Repeatedly.
Doesn't change the fact that the plan in and of itself sucks.
Sure, but considering that the conflagration between the two powers nearly destroyed the universe, its hardly a "bad show" for Darkseid. New Genesis is simply the polar opposite of Darkseid, the equal and opposite.
And, of course, Darkseid beat them in Rock of Ages and in Seven Soldiers.
Thats your perogative. I think I've made my point as clear as I can make it, and if you don't understand my bobby fisher analogy then we should probably just leave it at this.
so darkseid is the yin to high fathers yang. i still cant see why ds cant beat him. if they are that equal. izaya was killed by ares. and takion has since stepped in and ds still hanst conquered it yet? for shame its like no matter who u stick in ds cant get a leg up on him.
Originally posted by Desaadim saying dc says this about a lot of characters in different stories. like the universe cant survive without them bullcrap.
This is all semantically conjecture.I don't know what to say to you other than that it was clearly a power based "feat", which is what you originally asked me, isn't it?
for darkseid to seeminly have erased all time and was destroying everything so he could rule in the present. but when he underestimated his younger versions willpower this again showed how he cant prep for shit. young ds won. then had no clue how to save himself or anyone. so all ds proved is how close he came to destroying all reality until the legion stepped in?
Originally posted by DesaadUm, Death never even talked to him back in those days.
Thanos' brush with the Soul Gems, the Cosmic Cube, the Infinity Gauntlet, and the Heart of the Universe all stemmed from good luck, good fortune and the advantage of a magical plot device that told them whatever they needed to know. No careful research, no careful planning. Death told him of the Soul Gems, death told him of the Cosmic Cubes, the Infinity Well told him of the Infinity Gauntlet, and he was just lucky enough to have an opening to get the heart of the universe - an opening he never came close to planning.He needed Warlock to strategize the Infinity War and Infinity Crusade, he nearly allowed Annihilus and the Annihilation Wave to overrun the universe because of his poor planning.
These plans were pitiful. The fact that they succeeded is only a testament to the intellectual opposition he faced at the time.
Especially the HOTU one. Everything that Thanos tried to research with, told him it wasn't there. Thanos knew that it was, and he continued to look for it. He teleported all the heroes he needed, and continued to deceive them all throughout the arc. He also kept tabs on Doom, to see what went on.
He also drove his ship to the satellite as well.
Then when they entered, Thanos explained what it was.
No luck, just planning.
Umm... Warlock never did anything in Infinity Crusade, that Thanos needed help with. All he really did was use the Cosmic Egg to create a galaxy wide explosion, and then all three fought her.
Same goes for Infinity War. When Thanos was distracting Magus, Warlock grabbed a hold of the IG, and then let Eternfinity out.
Hell, what about when DS needed Superman's help for Imperiex, and when the Anti-Monitor showed up. Are those any different?
He didn't even plan during Annihilation. He joined in for fun. Maybe a reason why they almost overran the universe...
Also, the only thing he really did was research on, was the Power Cosmic.
Then at basically the last second he realized Annihilus was going to use Galactus to destroy both universes.
Basically his plan during Annihilation, was to join because he was bored.
It wasn't do to poor planning, considering he was on the same side. It was due to him not caring, until he wanted to know Annihilus's ploy.
Originally posted by Tyrantdesaad had to know thanos joined just to shake things up a bit.
Um, Death never even talked to him back in those days.
I think the first time Death talked to him, was in the little "Marvel Comics Presents" thing.
Everything Thanos achieved was through research, with the exception being when he peaked in the Infinity Well to look at the Gauntlet.Especially the HOTU one. Everything that Thanos tried to research with, told him it wasn't there. Thanos knew that it was, and he continued to look for it. He teleported all the heroes he needed, and continued to deceive them all throughout the arc. He also kept tabs on Doom, to see what went on.
He also drove his ship to the satellite as well.
Then when they entered, Thanos explained what it was.
No luck, just planning.Umm... Warlock never did anything in Infinity Crusade, that Thanos needed help with. All he really did was use the Cosmic Egg to create a galaxy wide explosion, and then all three fought her.
Same goes for Infinity War. When Thanos was distracting Magus, Warlock grabbed a hold of the IG, and then let Eternfinity out.
Hell, what about when DS needed Superman's help for Imperiex, and when the Anti-Monitor showed up. Are those any different?
He didn't even plan during Annihilation. He joined in for fun. Maybe a reason why they almost overran the universe...
Also, the only thing he really did was research on, was the Power Cosmic.
Then at basically the last second he realized Annihilus was going to use Galactus to destroy both universes.
Basically his plan during Annihilation, was to join because he was bored.
It wasn't do to poor planning, considering he was on the same side. It was due to him not caring, until he wanted to know Annihilus's ploy.
Originally posted by Desaad
Don't care what you did or didn't see.
I'm not wrong, and I'll bet the majority of people from SHC that remember you, or have interacted with you, would agree with my rememberance.
You don't go out of your way to disagree with RC, because the truth is you AGREE with him, and he is doing your dirty work for you.
Just like you agree with Jimmy's trash, right? the difference is that that is actually true for the most part.
I don't post on comicboards where RC posts. Why the **** would I debate him?
You, on the other hand, posted right alongside your little brother Jimmy for years, never disputing his bullshit lies about Darkseid or his excuses for Superman curbstomping Darkseid all the time. You have no problem twisting any facts you need to to support your favorites, and you've been caught plenty of times, so let's not act like you've ever been anything but a more congenial , slightly more sensible version of Jimmy.
Isn't that what we all say? No one thinks their views are wrong, are unsupported by the text.I know you know this deep down. I know you know it can't just be a coincidence that everyone, across every board, recognizes what you do and what you believe to be dishonest and baseless.
But Hey, i'l be only too willing to open up another thread so we can discuss this in length.
But you chug along anyway, god bless you.
It really bothers you that someone might believe that another character has strength over Superman, doesn't it? It really gets your goat?
Orion, however, has never been as strong as Superman except for the Byrne Era, when he was much weaker than he is now.
Well, you are going to need to get over it. I've never said that Orion was stronger than Superman. I've always maintained that they were roughly equal, and whats more, you can't prove that they aren't.
As you just admitted in another thread, Byrne portrays a Superman beating Darkseid.
In Action 600, Byrne portrayed Superman as Kalibak's physical superior. Orion, and Kalibak, OTOH, were physical equals under Byrne in JK4W.
Orion, as you yourself argued in this very thread, was physically dominated by Darkseid in Foundations.
Superman, in his higher portrayals, clearly surpassed Darkseid in strength or at the least was shown as his peer.
You will claim that Orion defeating Darksied in Orion#5 is just as much of an indication of physical equality, as if to purposely ignore the fact that Orion's skill level has always been his speciality and advantage in the New God's Universe.
Orion got felled by the Entarans in JLA 21. Superman was still standing from the same blast.
Doomsday wrecked Orion and martan Manhunter TOGETHER within 60 seconds--Superman held his own and withstood Doomsday's attacks for far longer.
Superman recently matched The Earth-2 Superman punch for punch over several issues and warped space/time and arguably shattered a planet in the process.
Superman has FAR superior feats, has superior showings, has superior showings vs the same foes, matched Orion when he was weaker than he is now, was portrayed as superior to Orion's physical equal under the same writer, as has physically matched/surpassed people who YOU argue to be physically superior to Orion.
You response, of course, will be to cite that Orion has stalemated Superman in combat situations like King of the World--never mind the skill defecit between the two.
To say that Orion has any claim of physical equality with Superman at this point is to be deliberately dishonest about thier showings, reltive standings, etc.
Superman is the strongest conventional hero at DC. Orion is not and never has been.
I certainly give Orion the MAJORITY over Superman, but thats another situation all together, as you well know.
You like Orion so you want to pretend that he is superior to Superman.
Thats just it. Its impossible to convince you that you might be wrong about something, despite a burden of evidence that can be described only as staggering, and a wave of popular opinion that can only be classified as the vast majority.
There is none.
Do you know why?
My stance isn't dependant upon absolutes. part of my argument is conceding that Superman isn't always presented above his peers. therefore, No instance of Superman being portrayed with equals or even inferior to other top tiers contradicts my argument, which s that Superman has portrayals above his peers more consistently than anyone else. that's a fact, and the only argument you or anyone else can come up with his the "jobbing" excuse.
Captain Marvel matching Superman doen't contradict my argument.
GL's matching and/or beating Supereman doesn't contradict my argument.
Martian Manhunter matching or beating Superman doesn't contradict my argument.
The only argument you or anyone has ever presented to my argument is, "I don't want Superman to be as formidable as he is, so therefore his best feats are jobbing". It's the exact same thing as citing PIS, really.
It doesn't matter how badly you get defeated in a debate -- you just don't give in, and you don't give up, and you refuse to admit it to yourself.
Not you, ever.
You are you another one of those who thinks that getting the last word equaltes to having the better argument?
I mean, I already wrecked you recently on your BS claim of Green Lantern being more powerful than Superman--laughable, to anyone familliar and honest with the history of the two characters and their relative standing in the DCU
And thats admirable in a way, I don't want you to think its necessarily a knock against you. But it makes debating with you extremely tedious - as it used to be with Jimmy - and ultimately unproductive.
Depends on the point.
Give me some examples of those, would you?Give me some examples of this, would you?
Prove this, won't you?
f you disagree that Batman has displayed mroe extricate combat knowledge than Cap, that Cap isn't possesed of the superior combat record, and that Cap isn't superior in combat formidabililty to Batman, then I'm not going to debate it with you, even though it would be al too easy to. Just suffice it to dsay that your DC fanaticism has reached new highs in my eyes, and I was a huge Batman fanatic.
But if you really want to debate it, We can open another thread for me to demolish any doubt of those incontrovertible facts.
And were they facing the same caliber of foe, I would agree.
Wow, even I wouldn't go that far.
I don't care what you think about how they take losing, Jelly. This isn't about which character you like more, or it shouldn't be.Its about the simple fact that a plan that will work for Thanos is too simplistic to work for Darkseid, and that has been demonstrated over and over again.
Okay.
Thanos' brush with the Soul Gems, the Cosmic Cube, the Infinity Gauntlet, and the Heart of the Universe all stemmed from good luck, good fortune and the advantage of a magical plot device that told them whatever they needed to know. No careful research, no careful planning. Death told him of the Soul Gems, death told him of the Cosmic Cubes, the Infinity Well told him of the Infinity Gauntlet, and he was just lucky enough to have an opening to get the heart of the universe - an opening he never came close to planning.He needed Warlock to strategize the Infinity War and Infinity Crusade, he nearly allowed Annihilus and the Annihilation Wave to overrun the universe because of his poor planning.
These plans were pitiful. The fact that they succeeded is only a testament to the intellectual opposition he faced at the time.
And that, by the by, is not a statement on Marvel characters as a whole. I don't think DC's characters are, by nature, more cerebral. But Starlin isn't a very intelligent writer, and a plan is only as good as its author. And so Marvel's characters suffer by comparison.But the comparison remains the same, and it remains valid.
Perhaps it would behoove you to do a bit of research before you go off half cocked then? [/B]
Originally posted by Desaad
Good thing I said virtually, isn't it?
NOt even virtually. Lying is something someone does out of intent. If I give misinformation based upon what I have heard or read in another forum, then so be it. I didn't do my homework. At any rate, my opinion on matters that I have read with my own eyes are NOT up for debate and Thus I can summise what I wish. To feel anyother way would be cattle minded and have no forthwit of my own. I do not take your opinion as law. Especially when we are debating something as subjective as art and writing. Given that you may have knowlege of an event that I do not, or that I was mislead on, I will take that into consideration. But that in no way, denotes me lying or you being correct in your summations. You weren't even adept enough to assertain that I just had wrong info as opposed to you putting your foot in your mouth and saying I was lying. The first thing one should do is determine the origin of info and the context before one could even begin to say someone was lying as opposed to being misinformed. Next time try to use your great intellect for something other than remember a bunch of comic book feats. Apply it to the real world principles and see how much better you will be at forum relations. Not that I give a damn about forum relations, but you never see me accusing anyone of lying. Becuz I dont' know if they are misinformed or thier intentions. I will accuse someone of deceptive practice. Which is altogether differnt. You have a good day.
i detest the excuse that darkseid has a rougher road to greatness than thanos has in marvel. its a poor excuse. both universes are hard to conquer and overtake. you either do it or you dont. there arent mitigating excuses for darkseid becuz he fails at this all the time. its not like his plans are so intricate and he has to go down a tougher road. maybe darkseid should simplify his plans. ITS THANOS DOES WHAT DARKSEID DREAMS OF!!!!!
Originally posted by panthergod
Watch your tone.The fact that people don't like the way I come across has nothing to do with my arguments, which while I've definately been wrong about plenty of things, my larger viewpoints remained un challenged by anyone.
LOl, where Have I claimed that Superman is above Galactus, Astro.
Just like you agree with Jimmy's trash, right? the difference is that that is actually true for the most part.
I don't post on comicboards where RC posts. Why the **** would I debate him?
You, on the other hand, posted right alongside your little brother Jimmy for years, never disputing his bullshit lies about Darkseid or his excuses for Superman curbstomping Darkseid all the time. You have no problem twisting any facts you need to to support your favorites, and you've been caught plenty of times, so let's not act like you've ever been anything but a more congenial , slightly more sensible version of Jimmy.
A lie, of course.
But Hey, i'l be only too willing to open up another thread so we can discuss this in length.
Sure, God bless the truth.
Have have o problem admitting that anyone is superior to Superman-if they actually have evidence to warrant it.
Orion, however, has never been as strong as Superman except for the Byrne Era, when he was much weaker than he is now.
lmao.
As you just admitted in another thread, Byrne portrays a Superman beating Darkseid.
In Action 600, Byrne portrayed Superman as Kalibak's physical superior. Orion, and Kalibak, OTOH, were physical equals under Byrne in JK4W.
Orion, as you yourself argued in this very thread, was physically dominated by Darkseid in Foundations.
Superman, in his higher portrayals, clearly surpassed Darkseid in strength or at the least was shown as his peer.
You will claim that Orion defeating Darksied in Orion#5 is just as much of an indication of physical equality, as if to purposely ignore the fact that Orion's skill level has always been his speciality and advantage in the New God's Universe.
Orion got felled by the Entarans in JLA 21. Superman was still standing from the same blast.
Doomsday wrecked Orion and martan Manhunter TOGETHER within 60 seconds--Superman held his own and withstood Doomsday's attacks for far longer.
Superman recently matched The Earth-2 Superman punch for punch over several issues and warped space/time and arguably shattered a planet in the process.
Superman has FAR superior feats, has superior showings, has superior showings vs the same foes, matched Orion when he was weaker than he is now, was portrayed as superior to Orion's physical equal under the same writer, as has physically matched/surpassed people who YOU argue to be physically superior to Orion.
You response, of course, will be to cite that Orion has stalemated Superman in combat situations like King of the World--never mind the skill defecit between the two.
To say that Orion has any claim of physical equality with Superman at this point is to be deliberately dishonest about thier showings, reltive standings, etc.
Superman is the strongest conventional hero at DC. Orion is not and never has been.
Of course. another baseless opinion of your favoring your preffered character with the inferior track record.
You like Orion so you want to pretend that he is superior to Superman.
Staggering Burden of evidence?
There is none.
Do you know why?
My stance isn't dependant upon absolutes. part of my argument is conceding that Superman isn't always presented above his peers. therefore, No instance of Superman being portrayed with equals or even inferior to other top tiers contradicts my argument, which s that Superman has portrayals above his peers more consistently than anyone else. that's a fact, and the only argument you or anyone else can come up with his the "jobbing" excuse.
Captain Marvel matching Superman doen't contradict my argument.
GL's matching and/or beating Supereman doesn't contradict my argument.
Martian Manhunter matching or beating Superman doesn't contradict my argument.
The only argument you or anyone has ever presented to my argument is, "I don't want Superman to be as formidable as he is, so therefore his best feats are jobbing". It's the exact same thing as citing PIS, really.
By whom? where?
Not you, ever.
You are you another one of those who thinks that getting the last word equaltes to having the better argument?
I mean, I already wrecked you recently on your BS claim of Green Lantern being more powerful than Superman--laughable, to anyone familliar and honest with the history of the two characters and their relative standing in the DCU
And you claim of impartiality despite your numerous failures in debates and the fact that you harp on about claims that have previously been demolished is quite entertaining as well, Astro.
Depends on the point.
WTF?
f you disagree that Batman has displayed mroe extricate combat knowledge than Cap, that Cap isn't possesed of the superior combat record, and that Cap isn't superior in combat formidabililty to Batman, then I'm not going to debate it with you, even though it would be al too easy to. Just suffice it to dsay that your DC fanaticism has reached new highs in my eyes, and I was a huge Batman fanatic.
But if you really want to debate it, We can open another thread for me to demolish any doubt of those incontrovertible facts.
So DC's Heroes>Marvel's heroes?
Wow, even I wouldn't go that far.
So Thanos wins more often with less?
Okay.
Or maybe you could be consistent in correcting the lies in your side of the debate?
damn! you must really care about this to post this long. i guess you're right 🙄
Re: Re: thanos vs darkseid with one week worth of prep
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Are they using only thier own personal resources or is Thanos using items of power that do not belong to him?
Interesting turn of a phrase. Possession IS 9/10 of the law. If Thanos takes possession of an item that once belonged to someone else, does it not now BELONG to him by right of conquest ?
Therefore, if an item is in his possession, it belongs to him and is as a result, a personal resource.