So going back to my question how much does juggs get shrunk down because a 1500lbs frame will crush most of these contenders just by sitting on them as I think the record on a bench press is 1100 lbs by some ridiculously jacked brit. If Juggs stays at current size he doesn't need any skill to take it beyond tossing his weight around.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You should consider that this is comic book martial arts we're talking about here that involves comic book characters in a comic book fight.
Sure, considered that already, and it changes nothing. I refer you back to the comparison of a 5 year old fighting you. If the 5 year old cannot muster enough strength to damage you, then all his fancy moves amount to little more than wasted energy.
each of WW's opponents outclass her in strength and durability by several orders of magnitude. Without super powers, she simply CANNOT muster enough strength to put any of these guys down unless they literally stand there and let her wail on them as they do nothing.
She may be more agile, but keep in mind her deficiencies are far more severe than any advantages she has in speed:
#1 - Reach
These guys are massive, and have a huge reach advantage. This means she can't tag them without putting herself in danger. They can hit her well before she can hit any of them. Bad news.
This means if any one of these men lay a finger on her, she's dead meat. All they'd have to do is take her to the ground and she's guaranteed a loss.
The size difference is far too great here for skill to play a significant roll.
#2 Strength
Already covered this. As I mentioned in my example of the first time I plowed a punch into a 250 pound sparring partner, I was taken aback at the lack of response from him. It was as if I tapped him. With so much more weight and muscle to absorb the blow, what should have knocked him back and caused him pain was hardly noticed.
All this from a 55 pound weight difference. Now imagine the difference in a 160 - 170 pound lightly muscled woman compared to 280 - 400+ pound monsters. Her strikes will not even register. She will not be able to muster the strength to damage any of these men significantly.
Unless they fight like complete idiots, she will not be able to grapple, hold, pressure-point, etc. She's simply out-classed in this fight.
#3 Durability
Without her powers, it's 1 hit and lights out for WW. No way around this. On the other hand, WW could pound all day long on these guys without results - Especially Cain. In order to get a win, WW would need to do something extreme such as choking out her opponents since striking damage would not cut it.
Problem is, if she's close enough to choke her opponent, her opponents are close enough to do the same to her MUCH more quickly.
These disadvantages place WW on the bottom of this list. With powers, obviously it's a different result.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Unfortunately, in the comic book universe, "martial arts skills" is essentially a super power in of itself. Diana's one of the fore runners to win this, regardless, though she's likely not going to win ultimately.
I hear you saying this, yet I look at the evidence and see WW constently getting tagged WHILE she has her super speed, and super strength enhancing her MA skills by bricks, and other much less skilled opponents on a regular basis.
Remove those crutches, and her "MA skills" will account for even less. Especially when fighting someone like Thor. Sorry, she's not a forerunner here at all unless her opponents fall asleep on the battle field.
If the strength and durability difference weren't so great, she'd have a shot. But this disadvantage is far too great to overcome. One decent strike to her head and she's going down.
Re: Superheroes (without powers) slug fest
Originally posted by FrothByte
There have often been times in comics when the superhero's powers were removed and he/she had to fight as a normal human being. So who would win in an all out brawl between the following considering that ALL their super powers were removed and they had to fight as just normal human beings:Thing
Flash
Colossus
Superman
Thor
Silver Surfer
Wonder Woman
Juggernaut
Spiderman
Juggernaut
Thor
Thing
Colossus
Superman
Wonder Woman
Silver Surfer
Flash
Spiderman
size matters here