Ken Masters v.s. Paul Phoenix

Started by Sado2214 pages

Sado, is Darkstorm claiming that Ken has better grapples than Paul?

i dont know what he's saying, really.
first he says paul used his strongest move and then i tell him he didn't and that's been the whole point of my argument. then he says ryu (someone we aren't even talking about) wasn't lifting the boulder with his strongest grapple and then i point out that grappling a rock is kinda werid. then he says i'm insisting that i am saying Paul can shatter boulders with a jab which is FAR from what i've been saying since day one, and when all that wasn't weird he wants me to prove that Paul has bone breaking moves despite his movelist having them...don't know what he's smoking lately.

Ken's Shoryuken can officially break a cyborgs jaw. But, people are claiming he can't break bones.

good point. but its only obvious that Paul can do worse for shattering boulders and walls to bits. regarlless thanx for pointing that out. i forgot that one.
the main point that i was making was that Paul's a better grappler hence pretty dangerous at close quarters.

Grapples aren't the instant snap-your-spine-in-two grapples, alot of grapples can be reversed, leading to a deadly counter, so if Paul really wants to take the risk and continue using constant grapples and not focusing on not getting countered, whatever. Also, Ken dosen't need to use grapples if he is a veteran fighter, he can just counter Paul's moves using a Shoryuken, but I'm not saying grapples are bad though, or that a Shoryuken can take Paul down that easily.

ditto. its a really really good fight but people are just making Paul look like a spineless rookie.
the thing with grapples is how fast both the user and the victim are. Ken has amazing reflexes but Paul is a veteran. he's been fighting for alot longer and more frequently since he's a street fighter and not just dojo dorky. between the two i'll give Paul experience as well as power. speed is in ken's department.
then there is the part with reversals. there really isn't much you can do when you throw a punch and someone uses your momentum against you. if ken does a kick, Paul has the knee breaker reversals and others to simply a) use his momentum against him to break his bones or b) use his own monstrous power and toss him. physcially Paul is not only heavier but bigger and has shown more strength feats. he's also shown great durability.
once again, its a really great fight. but I put my money on one who lives for a fight and was willing to give up money, fame and girls for what he loved doing (T4 ending).

the bias against Paul is shameful here.

~Sado
P.S. this is what i was talking about emp. sorry if i came on a litte rude in the Sagat-Paul thread.

Originally posted by Sado22
i dont know what he's saying, really.
first he says paul used his strongest move and then i tell him he didn't and that's been the whole point of my argument. then he says ryu (someone we aren't even talking about) wasn't lifting the boulder with his strongest grapple and then i point out that grappling a rock is kinda werid. then he says i'm insisting that i am saying Paul can shatter boulders with a jab which is FAR from what i've been saying since day one, and when all that wasn't weird he wants me to prove that Paul has bone breaking moves despite his movelist having them...don't know what he's smoking lately.

Grappling the boulder 😆

I believe it should be obvious that Paul is a better grappler, since he's a judo-ka that specialisizes in grappling.

As for the boulder, for now he does exceed Ken. But, ken is still very powerful. His weakest Shoryuken can break a cyborgs jaw and is capable of sending a rival several meters into the air. Also, it's an instant K.O. in most cases.

Originally posted by Sado22

~Sado
P.S. this is what i was talking about emp. sorry if i came on a litte rude in the Sagat-Paul thread.

It's cool.

That Shoryuken Ken performed on the cyborg is a killing move.

SHORYUKEN!!!

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
That Shoryuken Ken performed on the cyborg is a killing move.

That's because ken had muderous intent, and that movie was full of PIS/CIS.

I know. Ken did not have murderous intent until he realized he would not get around that cyborg without killing it.So he decided to do it for his and Chun Li's life. It smells like PIS...but is not too bad. Killing in self defense is not wrong IMO.

That cyborg should have been dead from the start. No one in Alpha the movies utilisized there full power.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
That cyborg should have been dead from the start. No one in Alpha the movies utilisized there full power.

Agreed.

However it made Ken look really good. He knocked Ryu back to his senses when Ryu was doing zombie walk in the forest. He stalemated Ryu at a later time. He WTFPawned Sodom. And he showed a great deal of stamina and durability while he fought the cyborg.

On a sidenote Ken's my fav. street fighter.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime

On a sidenote Ken's my fav. street fighter.

Ken is everyone's favorite.

Especially Eliza.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Ken is everyone's favorite.
I'm starting to think this may be true. I went to Wizardworld Philly a while ago to get some Street Fighters. Ken cost $25 @ this stand & Ryu only cost $20. Trying to save 5 bucks I asked why did Ken cost more than Ryu when Ryu's the main character. Dude told me Ken & Akuma always seem to sell more than Ryu. I bought the Ken anyways, but I was a lil' pissed. Ken's the man I guess.

Originally posted by Sado22
darko, stop putting words in my mouth and shut your damn trap. you KNOW i never implied something like this...unless you've got your head up your hole.

How, the hell else are we supposed to take it?

The Phoenix Smasher is hardly a "Simple Punch" like you described.

Lets see here... : Burning fist has a maximum damage rating of 125 on a Major Counterhit

Phoenix smasher does 75 on a Cleam Major Coumterhit. So in essence, the PS does more than two thirds the damage of his strongest move.

Originally posted by Sado22
so wait...shattering a boulder with a punch isn't impressive now? what bull. oh and nice tactic...change the subject when you realize you've got nothing else to say and have been proved wrong.

I havn't been proven wrong, and the subject is still the same, try again.

What I did was demonstrate a pattern of bullshit you continuously spew out.

Originally posted by Sado22
you're one to talk "jab boy".

Read what you said.... Read what I said......

You never mentioned the Phoenix Smasher at all, yoiu said "Simple Punch". A simple punch is a jab you nutter... You left yourself so wide open it was impossible to miss.

I am the one who established that it wasn't a simple punch.

Originally posted by Sado22
i don't argue pointlessly just to save face unlike you nor do i change topics and make run around babbles even when reality slaps me in the face.
like i said...you're arguing about something that's already been exposed and explained before: Namco clearly stated in Pauls T5 profile that he only lost because he wasn't focused. its not a real match up if someone is unable to utilize 100% of his powers. and even then he still fought impressively.

And I said that it makes no difference, Paul lost to a bear, these are the facts.

You want to make excuses and shit, then flame and insult those that oppose you in a debate, even me, but it doesn't change the facts.

Originally posted by Sado22
with his throws or his moves?
well...lets see:
-does ken have any bonebreaking throws in ANY of the games? no
-has ken done any bonebreaking in any of the animes? no
-has Capcom ever mentioned that Ken has any broken anyone's bones? no.
-has ken ever been shown shattering walls, boulders, rocks etc? no.
hence, ken hasn't broken bones.

we know Paul has or atleast can because:
-does paul have many moves the involve bonebreaking? yes.
-has he shown feats of strength of breaking walls, bones etc? yes.

i rest my case.

You've countermadedyour own argument again, see below.

Originally posted by Sado22
i assume falling from a cliff in real life also breaks bones or kills on the spot but it didn't happen to Hachi, Kaz or even oldass Hachi in T3. your argument is flawed. keep reality out of videogames, darko.

Your talking about high end characters, I'm talking about everyone in total, so don't skip bits.

Originally posted by Sado22
*raises arm*
fell from around two stories from a window on cement floor....not a single bone broken.
thank you 😉

My brother fell three feet out of a tree and broke his arm in two places... Argument countered.

Originally posted by Sado22
Namco doesn't give details about fights. is that so hard to get understand. since Tekken1 no details of the fights are ever given. all we know is who won and who lost. no details are given. your argument has no ground, again.

So, what your saying is, all these bonebreakeing and superstrength arguments have been based on hyperbole and speculation?

Congratulations Sado, you now cannot prove in story what any character has ever done in a fight...

Originally posted by Sado22
no he won't...but the details of ANY match in Tekken are NEVER given. we don't know how paul tied with Kazuya, how he beat Ogre, how he put out either of the Kumas or how he beat Steve in T4. we just don't know. all we know is that HE DID BEAT THEM.

See above.

Originally posted by Sado22
so tell me, yoda, how exactly does Ken have more priority?

Because it's been demonstrated in every game he's ever been in. EVERY game without fail.

Originally posted by Sado22
the bullets...i already said notice when the bullets hits the screen behind julia, when she does hte flip and when the sound of the bullet comes. if you know something about guns you'd understand that she CLEARLY dodged the first bullet.

She was already in the air by the time the gun fired, How can you count that as dodging?

As I said before, it's blind luck, not skill that helped her dodge that bullet.

How, the hell else are we supposed to take it?
The Phoenix Smasher is hardly a "Simple Punch" like you described.
Lets see here... : Burning fist has a maximum damage rating of 125 on a Major Counterhit
Phoenix smasher does 75 on a Cleam Major Coumterhit. So in essence, the PS does more than two thirds the damage of his strongest move.

i said SINGLE punch, darko.
and the rest of what you say helps me proove my point. he smashed rocks to bits with not even 1/3 of his power.

you said:

So what? unless he does it with a simple punch, and not a special, it beams about as much as your theory of Ryu being a weakling because he didn't down Hugo in a single move because he is of a lower tier

and i said:
so wait...shattering a boulder with a punch isn't impressive now? what bull. oh and nice tactic...change the subject when you realize you've got nothing else to say and have been proved wrong

which one of us is spewing BS now? i've been mentioning the SINGLE punch since day one. its impressive because Paul isn't using ki or something to pull that punch off. he's using his own power without any ki. hence its impressive....and still a basic karate straight punch "in theory" since he isn't using ki projectiles, electricity and what not.

You never mentioned the Phoenix Smasher at all, yoiu said "Simple Punch". A simple punch is a jab you nutter... You left yourself so wide open it was impossible to miss.

for the last time...i said SINGLE punch. and read what i said above regarding basic punches.
and for the record, a simple punch would be any of the basic punches including jab, straight, hook, uppercut.

And I said that it makes no difference, Paul lost to a bear, these are the facts.

and i am not arguing that fact, at all.

You want to make excuses and shit, then flame and insult those that oppose you in a debate, even me, but it doesn't change the facts

i rarely ever flame someone and if i do its usually in retaliation. if i start a flame, i'll be the first to apologize too. no need to make this personal.

Your talking about high end characters, I'm talking about everyone in total, so don't skip bits.

what? i am talking about fighters because that is what we are talking about dark. no one brought in a little kid or some pansy down the road. we are talking about fighters. Paul's movelist involves breaking bones. Ken's dont. Paul has been shown shattering rock and boulders to bits with a SINGLE punch. ken...not really.
counter the above and then come and talk. again, keep reality out of it.

My brother fell three feet out of a tree and broke his arm in two places... Argument countered

not really....but i don't want to get your bro involved in this.

So, what your saying is, all these bonebreakeing and superstrength arguments have been based on hyperbole and speculation? Congratulations Sado, you now cannot prove in story what any character has ever done in a fight...

god....THIS is what i've been saying since day one. i can't proove what happened in fights, darko, because Namco never give details. however, the fact that Paul has better throws and can break bones is a FACT DIRECTLY TAKEN FROM HIS CANON ENDING FEATS AND HIS MOVELIST. stop playing the retard.

Because it's been demonstrated in every game he's ever been in. EVERY game without fail.

in a game where Namco characters have never been there. in a game which has an unrealistic 2D envirnoment. when will you stop smoking whatever it is your smoking and listen to what i'm saying since day one?
you proved nothing so far.

She was already in the air by the time the gun fired, How can you count that as dodging?

because bullets don't go out instanteously, darko. if she jumped and the moment the bullet hit behind her at that moment, then its obvious that the bullet was fired BEFORE she jumped.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
not really....but i don't want to get your bro involved in this.

I also fell three meters and cleanly snapped my upper right arm bones in half. Still have the scars to prove it.

Simply because you've gone through a fall like that unscathed doesn't mean others do unconditionally, Sado. A forty-foot fall does have the potential to break bones and probably will if they land wrong.
I'm going to assume you landed on your feet and absorbed the shock by rolling.

Even so, I know my friend's dad did the exact same thing while trying a rather foolish leap off the bleachers, he still wound up with a busted tibia.

Originally posted by Sado22
because bullets don't go out instanteously, darko. if she jumped and the moment the bullet hit behind her at that moment, then its obvious that the bullet was fired BEFORE she jumped.

Link me this video and I'll see for myself.

Get back on topic, I didn't make a Scarred thread.

Originally posted by FortressXRuler
Get back on topic, I didn't make a Scarred thread.

Scarred thread or not, this is what we're discussing.

They happen to bring physics that should be used and applicable in the fight. I'm simply adding onto that. It isn't really off topic.
Which is something, they had better damn well know what the hell they're talking about.

If you don't like it, I suggest you stop bitching about it because that's probably what we're going to be debating about as well as whatever other topics they've brought up along the way.

If you expect us to take a fight seriously, let us examine all aspects of it, including physics.

I'm not bitching, I only said it once. But if you want to talk about the physics in a fight(while physics is only used 4 the entertainment of the gamer, not the character) continue to do so, I wont say anything else.

Originally posted by Sado22
i said [b]SINGLE

what? i am talking about fighters because that is what we are talking about dark. no one brought in a little kid or some pansy down the road. we are talking about fighters. Paul's movelist involves breaking bones. Ken's dont. Paul has been shown shattering rock and boulders to bits with a SINGLE punch. ken...not really.
counter the above and then come and talk. again, keep reality out of it.

~Sado [/B]

soooo Sado thinks Paul can beat Ken cause he can shatter a boulder or a rock?? 🙄

and has some nice throws that can brake bones ??

are these the reason why Paul should beat Ken ??

HILARIOUS!!!!!! 😆 😆

There are alot of characters who can do that. I'll be impressed if Paul fights Devil Jin and wins.

Ken survives punches from Balrog who can kill a elephant, or punches from Gouki. Ken survives attacks that are way stronger then that of Paul

Ken has projectiles and other specials, and his super attacks...

Paul is sooo basic....