Originally posted by starking
Correction, according to one mods call, if a character does something more than once then it's not considered pis. So because Superman beat Ds atleast three times now, does that mean we throw out ALL of his showings that should put him above ANY herald level(and most most skyfathers levelers), just because he had a few low showings? Doesn't sound right to me, and if Supes can even the current version of Darkseid, then he should be above Firestorm and Orion(those two were made of short work, by Ds recently).
Also I'm not talking about the current DS that has the ALE, I'm strictly speaking of pre ALE Darkseid.
Originally posted by starking
Seid holding back his true power, in favor of being an "honorable fighter", is YOUR opinion and nothing else. The only thing you have to support that statement, is the context from the Doomsday annual and the other one from Bryne's action comics. And guess what? He didn't even say he was holding back in Bryne's story, all you have to believe that is him creating a boomtube, and tricking Superman into flying in it. That doesn't mean he was holding back, it means he was AVOIDING a fight against Superman. Which was an avatar btw, and since they can be beaten by people like Superman, then I'm POSITIVE that he wasn't holding back.
Originally posted by starking
Pretty much the same thing I said above, Ds was just jobbing to Superman in that story, rather then him "not using his exotic abilities".
Originally posted by starking
I don't think it can be denied, that Secret is superior to Superman. Ask Juntai or somebody, they'll tell you.
Originally posted by starking
So those scans were Ds DIDN'T show honor towards other characters, isn't enough to prove my point? Ds doesn't hold back against Orion, so why would he do the same for Superman, when he has less respect for him?
Originally posted by starking
Uhh, he was hurt by the Omega effect in the second one. Did it look like he was resisting it in that scan? HELL NO!!! So how is that evidence on your side?
Originally posted by starking
Except we don't know for sure if Ds is truly holding back, when there's the possibilty that Dc is nutering him, just to make Superman look good. If you can find some more scans that say otherwise, then your theory is NOTHING but speculation.
Originally posted by starking
Well that's handy dandy and all, but according to the forum rules...Bloodlust
"It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels."So even though a character still has personality, he fights to his BEST ABILITY.
"but still within the character's personality "
Originally posted by starking
Uhhh, Seid isn't the "hold back his power, because his pride tells him to" type, meaning there's not much evidence to prove that Ds was holding back his other abilities, in his fights against Superman. Ds just didn't seem to be up to par, with his other interpretations.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but that one mod is the one who put the rules into place originally, and I'm pretty sure he knew what he meant by them.Also I'm not talking about the current DS that has the ALE, I'm strictly speaking of pre ALE Darkseid.
MY opinion is backed by two on panel statements. What is it that yours is based on again?
Prove it.
I'll look into Secret, but with the info I have at present it most certainly CAN be denied since I've yet to see any evidence to the contrary.
According to Juntai, he DID hold back against Orion so I fail to see your point. Not one of those scans you posted showed a bloodlusted DS resorting to what could be considered "cheap" tactics to win.
Well the image won't expand on my screen for some reason so I may be missing something, but all I see is Supes being buried in the ground. I'm not seeing him erased or rolling around the ground in agony.
Yes but what you consider to be speculation is backed by two instances of on panel support. How many scans did you find in the respect thread of a bloodlusted DS taking an easy win over what he considers to be a worthy opponent when he's not trying to further some plot or scheme? If it's really in character for him to do so, you should be able to find at least 3 examples of it(which would blow my two examples out of the water) without to much trouble.
Yes but you're overlooking this part...
"[B]but still within the character's personality
"You said it yourself, not MUCH evidence. But how much evidence is there to the contrary? [/B]
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Supers has rolled around in agony from the OE before. He once was hurt just from being near the OE when DS wasn't even aiming it at SUpers.
Originally posted by darthgooberAnd those are the SAME exact rules, form comic book rumbles. So because a character has a few bad showings, do we throw away COUNTLESS feats, that put him above most skyfathers?
Yes but that one mod is the one who put the rules into place originally, and I'm pretty sure he knew what he meant by them.
Originally posted by darthgoober Also I'm not talking about the current DS that has the ALE, I'm strictly speaking of pre ALE Darkseid.Ds only has a PORTION of the Ale(not the equation itself), and not only that but an avatar was used in that instance. So in other words, the Darkseid that soloed Firestorm and Orion, may have not had the Ale.
Originally posted by darthgoober MY opinion is backed by two on panel statements. What is it that yours is based on again?No your opinion is backed up by YOUR speculation. The first one is all have on side, the second one he didn't state OR show, that he was holding back in favor of being honorable. All he did was open a boomtube, and tricked Supes into flying into it. Meaning he couldn't have done that at ANY time, and Ds was just jobbing in that case.
Originally posted by darthgoober Prove it.What the hell do you mean? Seid didn't show his other abilities, in stories such as Superman and Batman. Did you see how he let Bats outsmart him, when Darkseid can read peoples minds? And between Apokolips now, and Superman and Batman, he didn't display much versatility with his power, like he does in other stories. So that must mean Dc has spayed and nutered Ds, instead of have him "hold back", in order to further the plots in those stories.
Originally posted by darthgoober I'll look into Secret, but with the info I have at present it most certainly CAN be denied since I've yet to see any evidence to the contrary.Fine with me then.
Originally posted by darthgoober According to Juntai, he DID hold back against Orion so I fail to see your point. Not one of those scans you posted showed a bloodlusted DS resorting to what could be considered "cheap" tactics to win.Yet Seid has Oed Orion, atleast 2 times. And you still don't have much evidence, to prove Darkseid likes to play it fair in man to man confrontations.
Originally posted by darthgoober Well the image won't expand on my screen for some reason so I may be missing something, but all I see is Supes being buried in the ground. I'm not seeing him erased or rolling around the ground in agony.Well Seid did say "Don't temp me", like he was ready to kill him. But the Omegas HAS worked him, because like Symmetric Chaos said, they're both the SAMETHING. The Omega effect works, by teleporting someone into oblivion.
Originally posted by darthgoober Yes but what you consider to be speculation is backed by two instances of on panel support. How many scans did you find in the respect thread of a bloodlusted DS taking an easy win over what he considers to be a worthy opponent when he's not trying to further some plot or scheme? If it's really in character for him to do so, you should be able to find at least 3 examples of it(which would blow my two examples out of the water) without to much trouble.Well I can't find an instance were Ds beats someone he finds to be "a worthy opponent", because Darkseid ISN'T that type of character to begin with. You only have one statement were he OUTRIGHT says, he likes to play it fair in h2h. The second ONLY shows Ds is person who keeps his word, rather than someone who applies honor, to his man to man scruffles. I mean, why hold back your power, when you could be furthing his plot? That's not honor, that's being CARELESS. He's Darkseid for godsakes not Vegeta.
Originally posted by darthgoober Yes but you're overlooking this part...That's seems to defeat the purpose, of bloodlust. Let's say we put Superman into a situation, where he has to go all out. If he has to save the lives of some of his friends by KILLING his opponent, then don't you think he'll be in character?"[B]but still within the character's personality
"[/b]
Originally posted by darthgoober You said it yourself, not MUCH evidence. But how much evidence is there to the contrary?Well for one, holding back your power to a point were thwart your own plan, is just PURE idiotic. Let me restate myself, DARKSEID IS NOT THAT HONORABLE.
Originally posted by darthgoober
He went after the orb to increase his personal power. At the end, he escaped with the orb and you see him beside what seems to be a power transfer or power draining device, so I think it's safe to say that it was a permanent power up.
speculationj, my friend. we've never seen him use the orb since. 😬
But those same editors said that something similar happened in the 616 reality also, so he STILL would've had an opportunity to get those wishes. The wishes are mention in what's undoubtedly an "in continuity" book, so there's no denying that he got them. As for the feats he pulled off afterwards, you already mentioned that the blast he used against Galactus seemed to be far more powerful than his blast against Odin, and he also has nearly taking down Big G telepathically and threw the Maker a beating(I know he finished her off via tp, but he was trouncing her in standard combat before then).
he and moondragon combined to assault him via tp, and g wasn't exactly resisiting initially. the other examples are viable i suppose, buit i didn't get the sense they were really anything that fra beyond what thanos could have done before the supposed power-up.
the hotu incident itself was also referenced in a canon book, and yet . . . 😬
Since it's only been seriously damaged 5 times in all of Galactus's appearances, I'd have to say that it pretty much HAS to fall under the category of plot device or PIS for Sue to damage it like that.
you continue to really seem impressed by the armor feat. that's fine. i'm not. just because it isn't damaged all the time doesn't mean much. he doesn't often have the kind of battles (physical, h2h) that would allow the armor the opportunity to BE damaged.
i still don't see any reason to say thanos has greater capacity to damage via energy than ds has, nor do i think he is powerful enough to one-shot dd, nor strong enough to overpower him. thanos is pretty close to ds, and pretty close wouldn't be good enough against dd imo.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirlit doesnt matter that supes has been beaten by the omega before. he can still get out of it. it can still kill him. to say ds wins all the time is ridicuolus especially coupled with the fact that darkeid has lost to superman more than once. 😆
Supers has rolled around in agony from the OE before. He once was hurt just from being near the OE when DS wasn't even aiming it at SUpers.
Originally posted by starkingds doesnt hold back. why does there have to be some crazy reason why he loses. he just got beat by superman. give it up already. he shot his omega beam off and supes avoided and then pounded in his face. darkseid does also have a level of honor that darthogoober showed us on panel. in the right situation he has a codeof honor to follow. 😉 darkseid isnt the swine you think he is. he isnt 100percent evil.
And those are the SAME exact rules, form comic book rumbles. So because a character has a few bad showings, do we throw away COUNTLESS feats, that put him above most skyfathers?Ds only has a PORTION of the Ale(not the equation itself), and not only that but an avatar was used in that instance. So in other words, the Darkseid that soloed Firestorm and Orion, may have not had the Ale.
No your opinion is backed up by YOUR speculation. The first one is all have on side, the second one he didn't state OR show, that he was holding back in favor of being honorable. All he did was open a boomtube, and tricked Supes into flying into it. Meaning he couldn't have done that at ANY time, and Ds was just jobbing in that case.
What the hell do you mean? Seid didn't show his other abilities, in stories such as Superman and Batman. Did you see how he let Bats outsmart him, when Darkseid can read peoples minds? And between Apokolips now, and Superman and Batman, he didn't display much versatility with his power, like he does in other stories. So that must mean Dc has spayed and nutered Ds, instead of have him "hold back", in order to further the plots in those stories.
Fine with me then.
Yet Seid has Oed Orion, atleast 2 times. And you still don't have much evidence, to prove Darkseid likes to play it fair in man to man confrontations.
Well Seid did say "Don't temp me", like he was ready to kill him. But the Omegas HAS worked him, because like Symmetric Chaos said, they're both the SAMETHING. The Omega effect works, by teleporting someone into oblivion.
Well I can't find an instance were Ds beats someone he finds to be "a worthy opponent", because Darkseid ISN'T that type of character to begin with. You only have one statement were he OUTRIGHT says, he likes to play it fair in h2h. The second ONLY shows Ds is person who keeps his word, rather than someone who applies honor, to his man to man scruffles. I mean, why hold back your power, when you could be furthing his plot? That's not honor, that's being CARELESS. He's Darkseid for godsakes not Vegeta.
That's seems to defeat the purpose, of bloodlust. Let's say we put Superman into a situation, where he has to go all out. If he has to save the lives of some of his friends by KILLING his opponent, then don't you think he'll be in character?
Well for one, holding back your power to a point were thwart your own plan, is just PURE idiotic. Let me restate myself, DARKSEID IS NOT THAT HONORABLE.