Originally posted by TricksterPriest
As far as avatars go, it's mentioned several times, and in fact, if Seven Soldiers is canon (as the new Firestorm with Shilo seems to confirm), then you have an avatar right there, along with Darkseid creating other dimensions.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not denying the existence of DS's avatars, I'm saying that you can't blame EVERY low showing of DS's on an avatar without proof.
I don't. But I just ignore them. Kinda Like I do with Odin's rediculous showings. Things like him running scared from villians thor eventually beats is crap. Or him Not beating THanos is crap. His high showings are too far ahead. Same with DS. DS high showings are too far ahead of the low ones to make sense. How can one be so powerful that his removal destroys time and yet he loses to a high tier brick like superman? How can he conquer the creation and have to be removed and put behind the source wall and every trace of him be retconned via a grandmother box, yet he loses to Doomsday? Doesn't make sense. I Do the same for galactus. Galactus has some truly horrible showings that dont' make sense. Villians fall victim to writers not knowing what to do with them. Look at Asmodel or Mephisto. Mephisto losing to Surfer is REDICULOUS. So I just dont' count the ones that are truly silly.
Originally posted by darthgooberNot to sound like I'm speculating or anything, but an avatar of Ds being used when he faced Superman and characters on his level, doesn't seem like a stretch by any means. Like Trickster said, an avatar could create a pocket dimension, and if it could do that, imagine what the REAL thing could do. Seeing how Seid has used done MANY things, that suggest top tier/herald level characters, shouldn't be on his level, then the avatar theory, may not be far from the truth.
I'm not denying the existence of DS's avatars, I'm saying that you can't blame EVERY low showing of DS's on an avatar without proof.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The OE should hurt anyone as it is a direct gift and power directly linked to the source.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I was saying that DS in JLU animated does not count unless it happens in the DCU animated comic book. The Animated series is NOT connected to DS. You have never heard me say that DS from other mediums was one and the same. Only DS from all comics.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Also, I dont' see Galactus needing to will himself back from Thanos sucker attack. DS attacks Big G head on. THanos does a one hit blast and catches big G off guard. I have no doubt that had DS released the Omega Force, He could have done the same.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But since The Omega effect doesnt' have a pummel effect to it,( another reason why Doomsday must have been shot by the OF instead of the OE), Ds wouldnt' knock over Big G.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Also, Big G doesn't really look phased to me after thanos attack.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Thanos begs for his life after Big G attacks, DS gets blasted and gets back up with only his clothes tattered. Who do you think looks better in those showings?
Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer possesses the Power Cosmic(a gift from Galactus), but that doesn't mean that he can hurt anyone that Galactus can.You didn't say any comic, you said any APPEARANCE.
Proof?
Except that it was directly stated in the book to be the OE, which proves that there IS some kind of "pummel effect" to it. The funny thing is that the only way you can prove that there's NOT a pummel effect to the OE, is to show someone surviving the OE.
Yeah, I'm sure that being blasted through the hull of a ship and having your armor all tore up constitutes being "unphased" 🙄 .
You mean that DS was HELPED up by Orion don't you? Thanos got up on his own.
Um, THanos begged for his life after beign protected by a tech shield. DS got blasted and was not hurt. His clothes tattered. You tell me. And The OE does not have a pummel effect. The OE controls, Time, Space, matter manip, and souls. No pummel effect. It's the Omega Force that has the Pummel effect.
As for any appearance, It doesn't take a genious to know that this is a comic forum so I would mean any comic appearance.
Big G was unphased by Thanos's attack. If I burn my clothes but am unhurt, I"m going to say, I'm alright, i was unphased, or I'm not hurt.
Originally posted by starking
Not to sound like I'm speculating or anything, but an avatar of Ds being used when he faced Superman and characters on his level, doesn't seem like a stretch by any means. Like Trickster said, an avatar could create a pocket dimension, and if it could do that, imagine what the [b]REAL thing could do. Seeing how Seid has used done MANY things, that suggest top tier/herald level characters, shouldn't be on his level, then the avatar theory, may not be far from the truth. [/B]
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um, THanos begged for his life after beign protected by a tech shield. DS got blasted and was not hurt. His clothes tattered. You tell me.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And The OE does not have a pummel effect. The OE controls, Time, Space, matter manip, and souls. No pummel effect. It's the Omega Force that has the Pummel effect.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As for any appearance, It doesn't take a genious to know that this is a comic forum so I would mean any comic appearance.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Big G was unphased by Thanos's attack. If I burn my clothes but am unhurt, I"m going to say, I'm alright, i was unphased, or I'm not hurt.
Originally posted by darthgooberSo do you think that real Ds, should be losing to Superman? Sometimes you don't have to have proof, for common sense can allow you to guide yourself, into believing what's logical and what's not.
Exactly. Keyword there IMAGINE. In otherwords speculate with NO actual foundation beyond what we've seen. I can imagin a lot based off of Thanos's more recent showings, but how much of it would you support that had no proof backing it?
Originally posted by starking
So do you think that real Ds, should be losing to Superman? Sometimes you don't have to have proof, for common sense can allow you to guide yourself, into believing what's logical and what's not.
Originally posted by darthgooberAs in h2h combat, are you referring to Apokolips now, Action comics(whatever issue it was), and Superma/Batman? Because you know, those fights WERE NOT pure h2h fights. You base Supes being able to take Seid in a fist fight, from ONE a statement he made, about him being an honorable fighter. There's no weight to hold that statement, because it was in same story where the writer said, Ds shouldn't be the powerful cosmic that he truly is.
It depends. Should DS be losing to Supes in a h2h fight...maybe, maybe not. CAN DS lose to Supes h2h, ABSOFREAKINLUTELY. It's happened to many times for it to be written off, it's just that simple.
Did you see what happened, in that one action comics story? Supes just punched him, and threw him in a boomtube, like some kind of 5 dollar prostitute. Seid has honor, but he DOESN'T like to be humiliated, in such a way.
So why would he hold back against Clark, but when he faces Orion and Firestorm, he wtfpwns them with a wave from his hand? I smell bullshit, and Dc is making it.
Originally posted by starking
As in h2h combat, are you referring to Apokolips now, Action comics(whatever issue it was), and Superma/Batman? Because you know, those fights WERE NOT pure h2h fights. You base Supes being able to take Seid in a fist fight, from [b]ONE a statement he made, about him being an honorable fighter. There's no weight to hold that statement, because it was in same story where the writer said, Ds shouldn't be the powerful cosmic that he truly is.Did you see what happened, in that one action comics story? Supes just punched him, and threw him in a boomtube, like some kind of 5 dollar prostitute. Seid has honor, but he DOESN'T like to be humiliated, in such a way.
So why would he hold back against Clark, but when he faces Orion and Firestorm, he wtfpwns them with a wave from his hand? I smell bullshit, and Dc is making it. [/B]
Originally posted by darthgooberWhat's was the second statement. And I don't context that says Ds is a "win at any cost" type, but I have quit a few scans, that speak for themselfs.
I don't mean necessary PURE h2h fights, I mean primarily h2h. And I have [B]TWO statements that lend credit to DS being an "honorable" fighter. How many statements do you have that suggest that he's a "win at any cost" type? Using things like BFR to progress a plan is one thing, but how many times has he used that kind of thing when all the planning and scheming are over, he's bloodlusted(meaning that he WANTS to finish the guy off), and his opponent is directly in front of him? [/B]
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=darkseidlobo15qu2fo.jpg
http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fbbed877jpgorig8ta.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=darkseidgl11ak9tc.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb51e2a8jpgorig1qd.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb51e29ejpgorig7xs.jpg
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http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f880d1e1jpgorig0yr.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f880d1e3jpgorig9zp.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f880d1e3jpgorig9zp.jpg
http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=action638012ic.jpg
http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fbd4f8d3jpgorig9mc.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb977015jpgorig8lu.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb977010jpgorig7cc.jpg
Originally posted by darthgoober
If he was unhurt, he shouldn't have needed ANY help getting up. But he did now didn't he?If I trip and fall, and someone assist me, does that mean I'm hurt? where were the blood streaks or Bruises? Surely Big G blasting someone while he seeks to humiliate them would show?
Proof?
This is a comic forum where the animated versions are discussed as well now isn't it? So are you now suggesting that there's actually MORE than one DS in DC?
people usually mention specific animation when referencing such. Your attempt to belittle me by coming up with a statement I never made is a retarded grasp. You can't say according to never, Batman can dodge the OE, when I never referenced said event. Especially since it is an animated feat. Retarded attempt at putting me down and rediculous bullshit that happens on KMC alot. Contriving statements against people to make them look silly when they never even said such things.
If I knock you though a wall and destroy a part of your armor, whether or not you're able to fight back afterwards in no way suggest that you were "unphased". Being unphased by an attack means that you don't even register it and can go about with what you were doing.
Galactus not only could fight back, He made Thanos beg for his life with THanos vuanted shield in place. He surely wasn't phased by Thanos' attack.
Originally posted by starking
What's was the second statement. And I don't context that says Ds is a "win at any cost" type, but I have quit a few scans, that speak for themselfs.
The statements I have are the one about h2h combat with DD, and the scan of him saying that though he may scheme, he never cheats.
[QUOTE=9228490]Originally posted by starking
[B]
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=darkseidlobo15qu2fo.jpg
http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fbbed877jpgorig8ta.jpg
Originally posted by starking
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=darkseidgl11ak9tc.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb51e2a8jpgorig1qd.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb51e29ejpgorig7xs.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb51c251jpgorig1ij.jpg
Originally posted by starking
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f880d1e1jpgorig0yr.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f880d1e3jpgorig9zp.jpg
Originally posted by starking
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f880d1e3jpgorig9zp.jpg
http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=action638012ic.jpg
Originally posted by starking
http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fbd4f8d3jpgorig9mc.jpg
Originally posted by starking
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb977015jpgorig8lu.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb977010jpgorig7cc.jpg
Originally posted by starking
http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=drfate1115rv6.jpg
Again, I'm not saying that DS won't resort to what he considerer's a "cheap" victory to further a plot or to rid himself of what he considers a pest, I'm saying that he doesn't do that kind of thing when he's bloodlusted and he's facing off against someone that he WANTS to put down.
Anyway, I gotta take off for a while, but we can pick this up later.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Notice he tells Lobo "You are nothing to me". That means you have an example of him getting a "cheap" win against someone that DS doesn't really feel is worth his time.Yeah, notice that DS didn't actually resort to any "cheap" tactics there, he crushed Ryker's ring PHYSICALLY.
Again what does that prove? Secret didn't really have a chance against DS(at least from my limited knowledge on her) so DS removing her powers when he saw that as a greater punishment doesn't really contradict anything I've said.
What's the point there? DS OBVIOUSLY wasn't bloodlusted, because he said himself that his only purpose there was to finish his experiment.
Again, that wasn't an instance of DS being bloodlusted, that was him trying to further a scheme.
What "cheap" win did he go for there? He grabbed the guy by the neck and then blasted him. He didn't mind rape him or even OE the guy, all he did was blast him. If anything, that proves that DS's standard tactics when going 1 on 1 with Supes are more "in character" that what you believe.
This is the only scan that you have that's even CLOSE to contradicting my examples. And if you'll notice, even Fate notices that there's something strange going on, which leads me to question the circumstances there.
Again, I'm not saying that DS won't resort to what he considerer's a "cheap" victory to further a plot or to rid himself of what he considers a pest, I'm saying that he doesn't do that kind of thing when he's bloodlusted and he's facing off against someone that he WANTS to put down.
Anyway, I gotta take off for a while, but we can pick this up later.
Ive' seen DS kill many beings with out effort when he wants to put them down. That doesn't compute.
Originally posted by darthgooberSo even though Lobo is on par with Superman, Ds finds him to be inferior, compared to the big S? If what your saying is true, then Dc likes to stroke Superman's cock, to the nth degree. And that's called a jobber aura, something not taken seriously around here. Btw, Lobo hurt his hands punching him, so that means ALOT.
Notice he tells Lobo "You are nothing to me". That means you have an example of him getting a "cheap" win against someone that DS doesn't really feel is worth his time.
Originally posted by darthgooberIs that supposed to be sarcasm? If so, then Raker rushed over to Ds, ONLY to have his hand crushed. So to you, is that cheap because Ds destroyed Raker's ring, making him powerless? In that case, I could call it cheap whenever the Silver Surfer, is knocked off his board, but when it's WITH IN character's powerset, to take advantage of a character's achiles heal, then you can't call CHEAP on it, unless Seid did it when his guard was down.
Yeah, notice that DS didn't actually resort to any "cheap" tactics there, he crushed Ryker's ring PHYSICALLY.
Originally posted by darthgooberIt shows that Seid is capable of depowering beings, greater than Superman. And the problem with your point is, you base Ds off of being an honorable fighter, from ONE comic where the portrayal of the character is OFF. Unless of course, you can show me that second instance, where Ds said he was an honorable fighter 🙂
Again what does that prove? Secret didn't really have a chance against DS(at least from my limited knowledge on her) so DS removing her powers when he saw that as a greater punishment doesn't really contradict anything I've said.What's the point there? DS OBVIOUSLY wasn't bloodlusted, because he said himself that his only purpose there was to finish his experiment.
Originally posted by darthgooberWhy does he have to be bloodlusted? Ds can pwn people STRONGER than Superman with the Oe, yet when he faces Superman himself, he has it deflected. Meaning if your theory is right(which is speculation to me), then Darkseid holds back the TRUE power of the omega effect, which to me is more retarded, than being honorable. I mean how is using the Oe, is a cheap win? It's apart of his powerset, so he should be able to use it, as much as he wants. That's like saying Silver Surfer draining Hulk of his gamma energy is cheap, because he did with such ease. 🙄
Again, that wasn't an instance of DS being bloodlusted, that was him trying to further a scheme.
Originally posted by darthgooberI don't get it, not to sound like an idiot or anything, but can enlighten me on this?
What "cheap" win did he go for there? He grabbed the guy by the neck and then blasted him. He didn't mind rape him or even OE the guy, all he did was blast him. If anything, that proves that DS's standard tactics when going 1 on 1 with Supes are more "in character" that what you believe.
Originally posted by darthgooberMaybe so, but if me saying avatars is nothing but speculation, how can you say the same about this instance, based on nothing? Besides, that story was retconned into being Desaad, in disguise. So anything that happened in that story, was done by someone much weaker, than Darkseid himself.
This is the only scan that you have that's even CLOSE to contradicting my examples. And if you'll notice, even Fate notices that there's something strange going on, which leads me to question the circumstances there.
Originally posted by darthgooberBut the problem with your argument is, your using a statement from that Doomsday story, to support it's weight. Meaning Ds not going all out on Superman, is an act of stupidity, rather than the character being honorable. Oh wait I just remembered, Seid has also admitted to being that way, in a Bryne story. But that one would be an avatar, meaning if a small portion of Seid's power, can stand up to Superman, the imagine what the whole batch should do to him.
Again, I'm not saying that DS won't resort to what he considerer's a "cheap" victory to further a plot or to rid himself of what he considers a pest, I'm saying that he doesn't do that kind of thing when he's bloodlusted and he's facing off against someone that he WANTS to put down.Anyway, I gotta take off for a while, but we can pick this up later.
Originally posted by darthgoober
IW has a plot device powersource that allowed her to destoy a Celestial, so her piercing Big G's armor doesn't mean a lot. Other than IW(who I'd honestly forgotten about), the Inbetweener, and Thanos, I honestly cant think of anyone who's cause any kind of serious damage to Big G's armor.And it was never established that Big G "vanished" or anything similar in that arc. It's true that there was an odd visual effect, but it could just as easily be interpreted that the OE had NO effect what so ever, and that visual effect was just the OE trying unsuccessfully to erase Galactus. But what's NOT open to interpretation is that that this was Galactus directly following DS's blast...
From the look of it, I'd say that Thanos had a bit more of an effect on Galactus overall.
OE isn't the same type of blast as thanos. but you're right, you could interpret it to mean nothing happened. there is an odd colouring scheme to galactus, but that could be meaningless.
i'll stick with my initial thought though and say the OE trumps anything thanos can throw. standard blasts are a dime a dozen.
and i'm not sure how you say IW is a plot-device power. i'd never agree to that. it pierced a celestial true, but that hardly equates it to a plot device. sue's shields HAVE withstood blasts from galactus in the past -- something thanos's own shielding was unable to do.
regardless, whatever effect thanos had on g's armor, its effects on g himself were non-existent. the dire wraiths ALSO beat the crap out of g on their homeworld and tore up his armor iirc, and beta ray bill has also cracked his helmet. i really don't consider breaking some of his armor as much of a feat at all. 😬
Originally posted by starkingds the real ds showed up to comabt superman. he wouldnt send an avatar if he could lose his planet. ds lost and was humiliated. this came out of his own mouth. ds has gone so downhill. its kind of sad. 😆
So even though Lobo is on par with Superman, Ds finds him to be inferior, compared to the big S? If what your saying is true, then Dc likes to stroke Superman's cock, to the nth degree. And that's called a jobber aura, something not taken seriously around here. Btw, Lobo hurt his hands punching him, so that means ALOT.Is that supposed to be sarcasm? If so, then Raker rushed over to Ds, ONLY to have his hand crushed. So to you, is that cheap because Ds destroyed Raker's ring, making him powerless? In that case, I could call it cheap whenever the Silver Surfer, is knocked off his board, but when it's WITH IN character's powerset, to take advantage of a character's achiles heal, then you can't call CHEAP on it, unless Seid did it when his guard was down.
It shows that Seid is capable of depowering beings, greater than Superman. And the problem with your point is, you base Ds off of being an honorable fighter, from ONE comic where the portrayal of the character is OFF. Unless of course, you can show me that second instance, where Ds said he was an honorable fighter 🙂
Why does he have to be bloodlusted? Ds can pwn people STRONGER than Superman with the Oe, yet when he faces Superman himself, he has it deflected. Meaning if your theory is right(which is speculation to me), then Darkseid holds back the TRUE power of the omega effect, which to me is more retarded, than being honorable. I mean how is using the Oe, is a cheap win? It's apart of his powerset, so he should be able to use it, as much as he wants. That's like saying Silver Surfer draining Hulk of his gamma energy is cheap, because he did with such ease. 🙄
I don't get it, not to sound like an idiot or anything, but can enlighten me on this?
Maybe so, but if me saying avatars is nothing but speculation, how can you say the same about this instance, based on nothing? Besides, that story was retconned into being Desaad, in disguise. So anything that happened in that story, was done by someone much weaker, than Darkseid himself.
But the problem with your argument is, your using a statement from that Doomsday story, to support it's weight. Meaning Ds not going all out on Superman, is an act of stupidity, rather than the character being honorable. Oh wait I just remembered, Seid has also admitted to being that way, in a Bryne story. But that one would be an avatar, meaning if a small portion of Seid's power, can stand up to Superman, the imagine what the whole batch should do to him.
