Originally posted by NephthysIn times of war sometimes you do things you normally otherwise wouldn't. Being great has no relevance at all in terms of morality either.
Tell that to the men and women in Lothering.Oh wait, you can't because Loghain Mac Dunce didn't lift a finger to help them while he was selling elves into slavery and torturing people.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Loghain was a great man. He believed in what he did as the appropriate course of action for Ferelden. I won't sit around and let anyone bash the greatest character in all of dragon age lightly. The boy king was foolish though to think the darkspawn were so easily going to be conquered. Not saying he deserved to be abandoned but you know.
So wait, you agree with Loghain that ignoring a race of monsters that are marching through his country, torturing, mutilating, transforming, and eating everyone in their path while going after people who are at peace with his is an appropriate course of action? Seriously?
Originally posted by Nemesis XI believe that his actions in the end would have resulted in the destruction of the darkspawn.
So wait, you agree with Loghain that ignoring a race of monsters that are marching through his country, torturing, mutilating, transforming, and eating everyone in their path while going after people who are at peace with his is an appropriate course of action? Seriously?
Originally posted by NephthysHe's not all knowing but the man was directly responsible for freeing them from orlesian rule.
Well ok, if thats how you want to go the I instead question how 'great' he truly is. His actions are borderline insane and only served to weaken his country time after time. Arl Howe kidnapped his daughter right out from under his nose. Yeah, he's the guy who's going to save the country. 🙄
Originally posted by quanchi112
I believe that his actions in the end would have resulted in the destruction of the darkspawn.He's not all knowing but the man was directly responsible for freeing them from orlesian rule.
Actually they would do the complete opposite. Only Grey Wardens can kill the Archdemon. By eliminating them he's handing his country a death warrant.
30 years ago maybe. So he used to be a great man. Now he's just a paranoid old git.
Originally posted by NephthysI don't think he would have ever exterminated all of the grey wardens. It's kinda the wardens fault fr not cluing in regular folk just how pivotal they are in defeating the archdemon.
Actually they would do the complete opposite. Only Grey Wardens can kill the Archdemon. By eliminating them he's handing his country a death warrant.30 years ago maybe. So he used to be a great man. Now he's just a paranoid old git.
Still a great man. Always will be a great man. Take back this slander of Loghain.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't think he would have ever exterminated all of the grey wardens. It's kinda the wardens fault fr not cluing in regular folk just how pivotal they are in defeating the archdemon.Still a great man. Always will be a great man. Take back this slander of Loghain.
Well it looked that way to me when he was trying to kill them throughout the entire game. Yeah, it is their fault on that, but the Grey Wardens need to keep the information about how suicidal becoming one is on the down low so they can actually get some recruits.
Great men don't allow their country to get near overrun by darkspawn, don't sell their own people into slavery and don't make retarded tactical calls every 5 minutes.
Originally posted by Nephthysactually anybody can "kill" the Archdemon just that it will posses the near by darkspawn. Only the Grey Warden can permanently defeat it.
Actually they would do the complete opposite. Only Grey Wardens can kill the Archdemon. By eliminating them he's handing his country a death warrant.30 years ago maybe. So he used to be a great man. Now he's just a paranoid old git.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't think he would have ever exterminated all of the grey wardens. It's kinda the wardens fault fr not cluing in regular folk just how pivotal they are in defeating the archdemon.Still a great man. Always will be a great man. Take back this slander of Loghain.
He seemed rather keen on trying to exterminate them if you ask me. Otherwise he wouldn't tell his men to kill/capture (and kill later) Wardens on sight. Sure, blame the only people who give a damn about real threats unlike Loghain.
He may have been great during the Ferelden-Orlesian War in the past but since he's paranoid, he really isn't.
Btw, you didn't answer my question.
Originally posted by Nephthys
A guy who is so overly paranoid and that overemotional that he would destroy a sizable chunk of his own army, kill his best friends son (and King) and try to wipe out the best hope of fighting the darkspawn in Fereldon just because of the mere possiblity that Orlais might invade is a moron in my book.Especially given that his actions would certainly weaken the country as a whole and make it much easier for the Orlesians to kick his shit in.
Plus since Anora pretty much ran the show by all indications, he could have just gotten her to tell the Orlesians to piss off.
Spoiler:
Well, for starters, Orlesians had raped and murdered his mawm, and before that Orlesians had taken his mabari hound, for all intents and purposes his best friend, and used her to breed until she was little moar then a broken down husk, then dumped her off on Loghain, which basically forced him to put her out of her misery. Oh, and then even after they win the war, Loghain still finds Orlesians attempting to do shenanigans in Fereldan. And in one of the DLCs, you find out that Cailan was planning to dump Anora in favor of the Empress of Orlais so they could unite their kingdoms in peace and stuffs.
Loghain was wrong, no doubt, but he was far from a moron. Considering his suspicions were half the time right apparently.
Originally posted by FinalAnswerSpoiler:
Well, for starters, Orlesians had raped and murdered his mawm, and before that Orlesians had taken his mabari hound, for all intents and purposes his best friend, and used her to breed until she was little moar then a broken down husk, then dumped her off on Loghain, which basically forced him to put her out of her misery. Oh, and then even after they win the war, Loghain still finds Orlesians attempting to do shenanigans in Fereldan. And in one of the DLCs, you find out that Cailan was planning to dump Anora in favor of the Empress of Orlais so they could unite their kingdoms in peace and stuffs.Loghain was wrong, no doubt, but he was far from a moron. Considering his suspicions were half the time right apparently.
I know all that, and you left out the part about how they made him watch. I don't not understand his reasoning and about why he's so paranoid, but even with the Fruedian excuses he's still making ludicrously bad judgement calls and leading his country into ruin. A moron with a good excuse is still a moron.
Actually its never said that Cailan was actually going to do that in the game. One of the developers said he was, but Loghain didn't know as far as I recall.
They weren't. If Orlais were planning to invade Riodans group wouldn't have been so easily turned back at the border. And they would have certainly done so while Fereldan was fighting the civil war and the darkspawn. And him thinking the Grey Wardens are all Orlesian spies is just fvcking ridiculous.
Originally posted by The ScenarioI listened to Winter Wrap-Up directly after, and it is indeed probably my favorite Friendship is Magic song. Save the best for last, ey?
Winter Wrap Up >Also, Marowak probably my favorite Pokemon of any generation.
Originally posted by NephthysWhat the hell could Anora have done? If Orlais wanted to take Fereldan, it could. It is the most powerful country in Thedas, and militarily only the Qunari, Anderfels and Tevinter can match it.
A guy who is so overly paranoid and that overemotional that he would destroy a sizable chunk of his own army, kill his best friends son (and King) and try to wipe out the best hope of fighting the darkspawn in Fereldon just because of the mere possiblity that Orlais might invade is a moron in my book.Especially given that his actions would certainly weaken the country as a whole and make it much easier for the Orlesians to kick his shit in.
Plus since Anora pretty much ran the show by all indications, he could have just gotten her to tell the Orlesians to piss off.
Originally posted by quanchi112Loghain was a fool. He may have believed what he was doing was justified, but he was not, it stemmed from his fear of Orlais. Cailan foolish? Cailan's foolish boy king persona was a ruse, to boost morale among the troops. He is much more cunning than you realise. For instance, he was in the process of establishing a permanent, good connection with Orlais, which would have been good for Fereldan. But naw, **** dem Frenchies.
Loghain was a great man. He believed in what he did as the appropriate course of action for Ferelden. I won't sit around and let anyone bash the greatest character in all of dragon age lightly. The boy king was foolish though to think the darkspawn were so easily going to be conquered. Not saying he deserved to be abandoned but you know.
Also, he would not have crushed the Darkspawn. Shattering the political infrastructure of a nation and nearly starting a civil war with your stupidity would not have helped him fight the Darkspawn, especially since you need a Grey Warden to end a Blight. Without the PC Grey Warden, Fereldan would have fallen.
Originally posted by FinalAnswerHe is a justified fool, but still a fool.Spoiler:
Well, for starters, Orlesians had raped and murdered his mawm, and before that Orlesians had taken his mabari hound, for all intents and purposes his best friend, and used her to breed until she was little moar then a broken down husk, then dumped her off on Loghain, which basically forced him to put her out of her misery. Oh, and then even after they win the war, Loghain still finds Orlesians attempting to do shenanigans in Fereldan. And in one of the DLCs, you find out that Cailan was planning to dump Anora in favor of the Empress of Orlais so they could unite their kingdoms in peace and stuffs.Loghain was wrong, no doubt, but he was far from a moron. Considering his suspicions were half the time right apparently.
And yeah man, Cailan attempting to unite Fereldan with Orlais peacefully, which would only be beneficial for Fereldan, is so wrong, right?
Originally posted by NemeBro
What the hell could Anora have done? If Orlais wanted to take Fereldan, it could. It is the most powerful country in Thedas, and militarily only the Qunari, Anderfels and Tevinter can match it.
Loghain was paranoid about the Grey Warden reinforcements who were travelling with 4 battalions of Chevaliers. His thought was that this was the precursor to an invasion. All she needs to do is tell them that the Orlesians troops aren't welcome in Fereldon, which is what Loghain actually does after he siezes control. But he didn't need to kill Cailan to do that.
Originally posted by NephthysThe whole "Anora ran the country thing" is largely a myth.
Loghain was paranoid about the Grey Warden reinforcements who were travelling with 4 battalions of Chevaliers. His thought was that this was the precursor to an invasion. All she needs to do is tell them that the Orlesians troops aren't welcome in Fereldon, which is what Loghain actually does after he siezes control. But he didn't need to kill Cailan to do that.
Cailan promoted good relations with Orlais, and contrary to what you seem to think, Anora cannot overrule a decision of the king.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I know all that, and you left out the part about how they made him watch. I don't not understand his reasoning and about why he's so paranoid, but even with the Fruedian excuses he's still making ludicrously bad judgement calls and leading his country into ruin. A moron with a good excuse is still a moron.Actually its never said that Cailan was actually going to do that in the game. One of the developers said he was, but Loghain didn't know as far as I recall.
They weren't. If Orlais were planning to invade Riodans group wouldn't have been so easily turned back at the border. And they would have certainly done so while Fereldan was fighting the civil war and the darkspawn. And him thinking the Grey Wardens are all Orlesian spies is just fvcking ridiculous.
kay
It is generally implied that he was. As I recall it, Cailan had initially crumpled the paper up, but then starting evidentally thinking it over, as the paper had been smoothed over by the time the Warden reads it.
Invading a Blight doesn't really sound like a good idea.