Originally posted by RE: BlaxicanBut they are far dumber and aren't organized hence my whole point being centered around a well organized massive army versus splintered off unorganized darkspawn would be a slaughter in ferelden's favor.
Perhaps. My point though was that even on an individual level, your average darkspawn is a better, stronger fighter than your average human/elf etc, and will beat them.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Loghain was getting to the threat and wouldn't have ignored it forever.What did he do that was so monstrously stupid ?
What question ?
The only time he would realize what the real main threat would be is when he has a couple seconds left to live after getting his throat slit by a Hurlock.
Leaving Cailan and the Grey Wardens to die at Ostagar, trying to kill off what's left of said Wardens who are the only ones who can kill a certain demonic dragon-like god that controls a massive horde of monsters, and ignoring what's currently attacking Ferelda and is more focused on the Orlesians who aren't even there. You are incredibly blind by your fandom for this guy. You know that, right?
You were telling me that if Loghain did what he did, it would result in the destruction of the Darkspawn and so I asked "How does invading Orlais result in the destruction of the Darkspawn?"
Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't make retarded decisions, can survive depending upon the player's choices, and even can become a grey warden as well. You can't blame him for trying to exterminate the grey wardens because he doesn't know about the ultra secretive only a grey warden can kill the archdemon. Who cares if he sells people into slavery ?The darkspawn over very formidable and this was one of the shortest blights ever so saying a great man can crush a blight in less time probably hasn't happened and doesn't determine or undermine how great of a man you are.
Destroying at least a quarter of your standing army just to kill the Grey Wardens and Cailan is retarded. And he did so simply because of his own paranoia and insanity. Whats more idiotic is that the darkspawn horde already greatly out numbered them and was reported to be growing larger with every day. But thats alright, because Ostagar is the most defensable location in Fereldan and equalised the fight. So what does Loghain do? He gives up the only thing equalising the fight and kills off a large amount of his army in one fell swoop! If you talk to him even he agrees that he made a massive tactical blunder.
Yes I can blame him given that his reasons for kiling them off are completely idiotic and insane. It was paranoia only that made him kill off the Wardens. And really? You suspect the order of being corrupt and then declare war on them. The order with thousands of individuals in every single country on the continent. Who if they are corrupt could lead the entirity of Thedas to war against Fereldan with the Blight as an excuse? Really?
The Landsmeet does. When they kick his ass out of the goddamn throne.
It was one of the shortest Blights ever solely because of the Warden. And the Warden had the combined armies of the entirity of Fereldan, Orzimmar, the Circle of Magi, the Dalish (or Werewolves) and many powerful individuals on their side when all Loghain would have is the human's of Denerim and the north. And the Warden's forces were still getting their asses kicked in! Its only because the Wardens killed the Archdemon that that Fereldan was saved. If it was Loghain fighting that battle with a vastly inferior force he would have been crushed.
He was in the end seeking to reunite it and whether he won or the warden it was going to be united for a common threat.
Er, no. Its only because Flemeth gave the Warden the treaties (Puppetmaster that she is) that Fereldan was unified. Without them no Dwarves, no Dalish, no Magi. Loghain 'unified' it by instigating a pointless civil war in the Circle of Magi, attacked several of the nobles (Cousland, Eamon etc), sold his own people into slavery and many more atrocities. How is that 'unifying' it exactly?
Originally posted by Nemesis XAgain, he had no clue about the grey warden requirement to truly kill the archdemon and what was left of ferelden's force was enough to stop the blight one year in iirc. That's one of the shortest blights I can personally remember so quit acting like they were on the verge of losing. He acted in ferelden's best interests wit the information he had at the time. Not a fanboy a realist, sport.
The only time he would realize what the real main threat would be is when he has a couple seconds left to live after getting his throat slit by a Hurlock.Leaving Cailan and the Grey Wardens to die at Ostagar, trying to kill off what's left of said Wardens who are the only ones who can kill a certain demonic dragon-like god that controls a massive horde of monsters, and ignoring what's currently attacking Ferelda and is more focused on the Orlesians who aren't even there. You are incredibly blind by your fandom for this guy. You know that, right?
You were telling me that if Loghain did what he did, it would result in the destruction of the Darkspawn and so I asked "How does invading Orlais result in the destruction of the Darkspawn?"
Loghain wasn't trying to invade Orlais he was going to go after the darkspawn first.
Originally posted by NephthysSo what ? Like I just said they still stopped the blight a year in so this was definitely in the cards. You act as if ferelden was engulfed in 20 years of darkness. Imagine if he had joined the fight and the combined army lost. Just imagine that. Yes, the losses at ostagar hurt but they were still able to achieve victory so don't act like Loghain cost them anything. He was right they could still stop the darkspawn which they eventually did.
Destroying at least a quarter of your standing army just to kill the Grey Wardens and Cailan is retarded. And he did so simply because of his own paranoia and insanity. Whats more idiotic is that the darkspawn horde already greatly out numbered them and was reported to be growing larger with every day. But thats alright, because Ostagar is the most defensable location in Fereldan and equalised the fight. So what does Loghain do? He gives up the only thing equalising the fight and kills off a large amount of his army in one fell swoop! If you talk to him even he agrees that he made a massive tactical blunder.Yes I can blame him given that his reasons for kiling them off are completely idiotic and insane. It was paranoia only that made him kill off the Wardens. And really? You suspect the order of being corrupt and then declare war on them. The order with thousands of individuals in every single country on the continent. Who if they are corrupt could lead the entirity of Thedas to war against Fereldan with the Blight as an excuse? Really?
The Landsmeet does. When they kick his ass out of the goddamn throne.
It was one of the shortest Blights ever solely because of the Warden. And the Warden had the combined armies of the entirity of Fereldan, Orzimmar, the Circle of Magi, the Dalish (or Werewolves) and many powerful individuals on their side when all Loghain would have is the human's of Denerim and the north. [b]And the Warden's forces were still getting their asses kicked in!
Its only because the Wardens killed the Archdemon that that Fereldan was saved. If it was Loghain fighting that battle with a vastly inferior force he would have been crushed.Er, no. Its only because Flemeth gave the Warden the treaties (Puppetmaster that she is) that Fereldan was unified. Without them no Dwarves, no Dalish, no Magi. Loghain 'unified' it by instigating a pointless civil war in the Circle of Magi, attacked several of the nobles (Cousland, Eamon etc), sold his own people into slavery and many more atrocities. How is that 'unifying' it exactly? [/B]
Loghain wasn't privy to the very reason of why the wardens were even necessary so how can you fault him ? Who doesn't oppose their enemies head on in a war like situation. I can't fault him for doing so when he wasn't aware of their necessity.
At the landsmeet all the forces were combined and yes like in every game the hero's actions greatly impact prevailing over the enemy so why are you punishing Loghain here when you know full well the hero was needed whether Loghain was on his side or not. Loghain can become a grey warden and joins himself honorably to the cause if the player so chooses so don't act like Loghain is so crazy and paranoid he can't change his mind and in the end become a grey warden and possibly kill the archdemon himself.
Yes, the hero's actions are pivotal like in every game and despite Loghain opposing you when they all possibly unite or kill Loghain dependent on the choice of the player you still prevail one year in.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngelI enjoyed the movie, the special effects, and the acting. Now I think I know why you didn't like it as you are a fan of the series and thereby monumentally disappointed. I had no clue it even was a series and went into it with no expectations or preconceived notions.
Horrendous writing, lackluster action, lame acting, sub par special effects, and basically a kick to the nuts to fans of the series.
Usually if I read a book first the movie pales in comparison to the book like I am Legend. I thought the movie was garbage but if I didn't read the book I bet I would have enjoyed it more due to my high expectations.
If I start out liking something in one medium first that's usually the medium I like it the best. Take transformers the 80's cartoon. These new movies are terrible compared to the 80's film and the cartoon but if those hadn't existed or I hadn't seen them I bet I would have enjoyed the newer films a helluva lot more.
Normally I would agree with you about movies and books influencing opinion of the other, Quan, but even critics who had never seen the series near-unanimously agreed that it was a horrible, horrible movie.
Originally posted by General KalieroMy friend that I saw it with thought it was dreadful as well which shocked me because I really enjoyed it so much. In the end it's all too subjective to really be argued either way. I usually don't care what the critics say but I am sure the overall feel from the people who saw it from what I gather is disappointment save myself and a small minority.
Normally I would agree with you about movies and books influencing opinion of the other, Quan, but even critics who had never seen the series near-unanimously agreed that it was a horrible, horrible movie.
I hope the movie trilogy gets finished. I liked the fire nation the best but I usually side with the megalomaniac types who lust for powers anyways.
What were you yourself disappointed with personally ?
Originally posted by quanchi112
I enjoyed the movie, the special effects, and the acting. Now I think I know why you didn't like it as you are a fan of the series and thereby monumentally disappointed. I had no clue it even was a series and went into it with no expectations or preconceived notions.Usually if I read a book first the movie pales in comparison to the book like I am Legend. I thought the movie was garbage but if I didn't read the book I bet I would have enjoyed it more due to my high expectations.
If I start out liking something in one medium first that's usually the medium I like it the best. Take transformers the 80's cartoon. These new movies are terrible compared to the 80's film and the cartoon but if those hadn't existed or I hadn't seen them I bet I would have enjoyed the newer films a helluva lot more.
Yeah no. Me being a fan has nothing to do with it being a terrible movie. Granted, it's worse for me because I'm a fan, but it is still terrible. The writing and choreography is the worst offender though. The rest is merely meh.
And they rapped the Firebenders dude. They don't even seem like a threat in the movie. They have to have a torch/fire pit nearby at all times just to be a threat. That, is goofy.
Good thing there is only one freaking Air bender, otherwise they'd have probably been screwed over too.
Seriously though, that is kind of the point of the Fire benders. They need to be more dangerous than the others and have such an advantage. The audience needs to see them as a threat and there has to be some sense behind them being able to wage a 100 year war.
What the movie did was stupid.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngelIt's that's much worse because you are a fan. Granted I get that you probably wouldn't care for it either way but the reason it sticks out as pure garbage were the expectations you attached to it as a fan prior to watching.
Yeah no. Me being a fan has nothing to do with it being a terrible movie. Granted, it's worse for me because I'm a fan, but it is still terrible. The writing and choreography is the worst offender though. The rest is merely meh.And they rapped the Firebenders dude. They don't even seem like a threat in the movie. They have to have a torch/fire pit nearby at all times just to be a threat. That, is goofy.
They made the firebenders a threat due to their militaristic weaponry/machines, sheer numbers, and ability to manipulate fire. General Iroh or whatever his name is was capable of creating fire out of nothing which makes it cool to me since there are a few who can create it from their own chi making them stand out more than say everyone being able to do it.
With that being said I don't know how the series pulls this off and maybe if I watched it first I would think the movie failed in that regard but I am going purely off the movie so I have no basis of comparison and since I liked the movie will probably always favor it since it's the first medium I saw and liked it in.
I also like how the king states at the end if they can make it to the day of the comet then all of their abilities will be at the highest level and they can win the war provided the avatar doesn't master the other two elements before then.
Do you want a second film ? If so would you rather someone else direct it and take it into a new direction ?
Originally posted by quanchi112
It's that's much worse because you are a fan. Granted I get that you probably wouldn't care for it either way but the reason it sticks out as pure garbage were the expectations you attached to it as a fan prior to watching.They made the firebenders a threat due to their militaristic weaponry/machines, sheer numbers, and ability to manipulate fire. General Iroh or whatever his name is was capable of creating fire out of nothing which makes it cool to me since there are a few who can create it from their own chi making them stand out more than say everyone being able to do it.
With that being said I don't know how the series pulls this off and maybe if I watched it first I would think the movie failed in that regard but I am going purely off the movie so I have no basis of comparison and since I liked the movie will probably always favor it since it's the first medium I saw and liked it in.
I also like how the king states at the end if they can make it to the day of the comet then all of their abilities will be at the highest level and they can win the war provided the avatar doesn't master the other two elements before then.
Do you want a second film ? If so would you rather someone else direct it and take it into a new direction ?
I had no expectations going into this movie. All I wanted was for it not to suck. So much for that freaking wish.
The weapons which the Earth Kingdom guys also have and they actually should not logically outnumber their opponents, considering it is 1 nation against 2. The Earth Kingdom being the biggest iirc.
And nah. Iroh is a threat because he is just that much more skilled. Not because he has an ability that they lack, though he admittedly can shoot lightning and redirect it.
No, not really. Airbender is a big story. In order to tell it right for a movie, you'd probably need 6 movies.
The thing is, Quan, the power that the Firebenders have under Sozin's Comet in the movie? That's the power that they have by default in the series. It was the unbridled advantage of firebending that allowed the one nation to subjugate the others 100 years earlier. What Sozin's Comet did in the series was increase the power released, the same way that the Moon increases the power of waterbending when full.
The Earth Kingdom was actually superior to the Fire Nation in military capacity (they lacked a navy but made up for it in ground combat) and had defended their capital city from attack until it was brought down by betrayal from the inside.
The movie cuts the first season down to movie length by depowering everyone and flattening the nuanced world into blantant stupidity, such as Earthbenders being imprisoned on ground and no one in the earth or water nations thinking to just put out those little fires the Fire Nation has to bring with them.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngelEven though you didn't think you had expectations as a human you already did based on your experience and knowledge of the series.
I had no expectations going into this movie. All I wanted was for it not to suck. So much for that freaking wish.The weapons which the Earth Kingdom guys also have and they actually should not logically outnumber their opponents, considering it is 1 nation against 2. The Earth Kingdom being the biggest iirc.
And nah. Iroh is a threat because he is just that much more skilled. Not because he has an ability that they lack, though he admittedly can shoot lightning and redirect it.
No, not really. Airbender is a big story. In order to tell it right for a movie, you'd probably need 6 movies.
Yes, which is why he stands out more so than other firebenders to me making them needing torches or some source of fire close to them. He's a firebender of the highest order from what I gather though there may be more out there greater skilled than he is.
That's the shame of it all. Money. You need a ton of it to warrant making a series this long with this much money poured into it. It's nowhere near as successful as the harry potters, star wars, or the twilights.
I'd love for them to flesh this out into more than 3 movies but at this point with my interest in it I'd be happy with 2 more movies since even that is a stretch. This could end in limbo moviewise with the other two never being made or being made years and years down the line.
Originally posted by General KalieroIt does seem like there are major differences from the series and the movies just from what you described and it's understandable that fans of the series wouldn't like these changes.
The thing is, Quan, the power that the Firebenders have under Sozin's Comet in the movie? That's the power that they have by default in the series. It was the unbridled advantage of firebending that allowed the one nation to subjugate the others 100 years earlier. What Sozin's Comet did in the series was increase the power released, the same way that the Moon increases the power of waterbending when full.The Earth Kingdom was actually superior to the Fire Nation in military capacity (they lacked a navy but made up for it in ground combat) and had defended their capital city from attack until it was brought down by betrayal from the inside.
The movie cuts the first season down to movie length by depowering everyone and flattening the nuanced world into blantant stupidity, such as Earthbenders being imprisoned on ground and no one in the earth or water nations thinking to just put out those little fires the Fire Nation has to bring with them.
To me I liked the idea the fire nation is more militaristic, organized, united than the other nations and that's the reason it is subjugating the other nations.
One more question and please answer it generally rather than specifically. Is the king of the fire nation a big bad ass with his own fire bending powers or is it just he's really good and is in a position of power.
Were the Earth Kingdom really superior to the Fire Nation in military?
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
They did that because apparently, Firebenders had too much of an advantage as they could generate and manipulate their own element, as opposed to the others that had to manipulate already existing materials.
Ghey.
How many time would a Air and Earth bender be away from the air or the ground? And water can be in most places in large amounts, fire has to be bloody set-up beforehand 😐
Originally posted by BloodRain
Were the Earth Kingdom really superior to the Fire Nation in military?haermm
How many time would a Air and Earth bender be away from the air or the ground? And water can be in most places in large amounts, fire has to be bloody set-up beforehand 😐
I wouldn't say so. But they were their only opposition for the most part. The Northern Water Tribe kept themselves out of the War more or less, and they were so far up North that the Fire Nation did not organize a lot of raids there, and lost the ones they did as they were at an environmental disadvantage. The Water Tribe would have lost to Zhao had it not been for Aang though.
By the time Aang was found, the Fire Nation had conquered most of the Earth Kingdom, leaving only a handful of towns, like Omashu & Ba Sing Se as far as I know. Ba Sing Se's fortifications and defenses are really why the Earth Kingdom survived so long. Iroh could have gotten through IMO, but he gave up before he did so.
Also, I think GK's wrong. It seems that the Earth Kingdom did have a Navy force, but it was obviously inferior to that of the Fire Nation's.
Indeed. They just shafted the Firebenders in the movie. A pre-existing source of Fire could be easily put out by Water and Earth, or a sufficiently powerful amount of Wind, which would defeat the Fire Benders.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Good thing there is only one freaking Air bender, otherwise they'd have probably been screwed over too.Seriously though, that is kind of the point of the Fire benders. They need to be more dangerous than the others and have such an advantage. The audience needs to see them as a threat and there has to be some sense behind them being able to wage a 100 year war.
What the movie did was stupid.
Indeed.
Besides, at high enough levels, we saw that the ability to generate Fire is what kept a Firebender on an even footing with a high level bender of another element.
~ Anyway, who else is excited for Legend of Korra? Tenzin's apparently voiced by J.K. Simmons, so Tenzin will obviously be ossum.
Rain > Firebenders :T
Forgot about that. Would rather it show how she learns the elements instead of having them all, nut I guess it'd be a repeat of what Aang went through. Think it has a more serious tone as well? Traded humour for action, could work.
Do like :V
Originally posted by quanchi112
Even though you didn't think you had expectations as a human you already did based on your experience and knowledge of the series.Yes, which is why he stands out more so than other firebenders to me making them needing torches or some source of fire close to them. He's a firebender of the highest order from what I gather though there may be more out there greater skilled than he is.
That's the shame of it all. Money. You need a ton of it to warrant making a series this long with this much money poured into it. It's nowhere near as successful as the harry potters, star wars, or the twilights.
I was expecting for it to suck. Wish freaking granted I guess. Looking back though...It is still garbage.
But it doesn't make sense in the context of the story. And no, not really. Iroh is pretty much the strongest fire bender in the series. Ozai might be stronger but I'm not sure.
Of course. Because, and this will shock you, all those movies are better than Airbender. Twilight movies included. Yeah, I went there.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Rain > Firebenders :TForgot about that. Would rather it show how she learns the elements instead of having them all, nut I guess it'd be a repeat of what Aang went through. Think it has a more serious tone as well? Traded humour for action, could work.
Do like :V
Well I came.
Looks much more like anime than the original. Not a bad thing I guess.