M. Bison vs Kyo Kusanagi and Iori Yagami

Originally posted by Sado22
do we really have to go through this after YOU brought up the "peace treaty"?
sheesh! okay fine.

I did that to stop the flaming. What did you really want to keep flaming?

Originally posted by Sado22
like i said before, Riot iori's vast superiority in KoF97 is mainly because Iori never once fought more than entire teams on his own. and since you love endings so much and look for in-game evidence all the time, enlighten me on something:

That tells me more of R.Iori's power that Iori's...

Originally posted by Sado22
-Orochi Iori, as if what you say is true, became weak and tired after fighting kyo and shingo and yet, Iori took down whole teams in KoF97, took down billy and eiji without breaking a sweat and took down his KoF2001 team without a sweat either. it doesn't even make any sense for him to get "tired and weakened" after fighting TWO people.

Do you realise just how bad that sounds? your basing a characters entire career on ONE incident? even if what ash says is true, it could easily have been a one off event, or even that Ash can weaken Iori, since Ash's powers are an unknown factor, even moreso since he took Chizuru's in 2003.

There are a load of factors to consider, including R.Iori's much more impressive resume over regular Iori, Ash's powers affecting the 3 sacred treasures, Iori being weakened could be atributed to any number of things, does that mean that generally Riot Iori is weaker than his normal self? of course not, like I said, I need something more than Ash's word for that to be generally accepted, not to mention that you've been using this as a license to overhype Regular Iori to ridiculous levels... it's sickening to see that.

Originally posted by Sado22
-and tell me something, old friend. wy in the world are quotes vague only when it comes to KoF? seriously: for one everything you've said is easily rebutted by in-game quotes but you consider them "vague" despite them NOT being vague. however, all that perfectly admissiable when its SF because if Charlie says bison can destroy cities then he sure as hell can because....why?
Mature was clear: iori is stronger than Goenitz
Ash was clear: Riot's iori's power is declining steadily.

There are two things to consider Sado, and let me be very F@cking clear about them.

#1: Charlie wasn't downplaying Bison's power, not to mention thatBison was an enemy, why would he trashtalk on the radio to his allies that Bison WILL blow up the capital... he had absolutely NO reason to lie about the threat Bison posed.

#2: As I stated before, There are many factors surrounding Ash and Iori, but saying that his power was declining steadily is vague, because firstly, if it was declining, then what was it DECLINING From? What was normal Iori's power level in comparison? it's non-conclusinve as to wat the hell Ash was saying, and since you have claimed this AGES ago, the burden of proof lies with you my friend. And as for the office sluts: well you can say whatever the hell you like, the fact is Goenitz was PROVEN stronger, Iori couldn't hold a candle to him alone, and the final battle of 96 proved it, well and truly AFTER Mature said her line, and thats a canon fact. post 97/98 Iori > Goenitz, Pre 97 Iori < Goenitz, and it's a fact.

Originally posted by Sado22
oh and i will rub in your lack of pics and quotes, because you never stop asking ME for proof. where is fairness in this, darko?

Sado=1, everyone=0

~Sado
P.S. i miss emperor. not only was he the only guy who could back up everything he said but he was also willing to admit he was wrong when proved otherwise. anyone where he is?

Fairness? My information is just as canon and official as some pictures you pull off the net, perhaps even moreso. I don't go looking for net based info Sado, because I do not need it, I have the games, and thats all that is required to make my cases, and thats fair, reasonable, and official, don't like it? don't make false claims that I can rebut with info from the game.

Don't overrate yourself, you havn't scored any victories.

PS. Relying on other people simply because you like them? Sado, thats dissapointing... I back up my words, and admit when I am wrong, the difference here is, you havn't proven me wrong at all... And until you can AND Do, I cannot admit to something I havn't done.

Originally posted by Sado22

Rugal was destroyed by a % of orochi power while iori contains a lot of it. rugal pwned the entire cast of kof95 with the orochi power.........what do you think iori will do when he carries a lot more of it.

~Sado

so you admit having more orochi power infused makes you stronger.

that proves riot iori>regular

as for the 98 vid. i recall kyo geting quite a few decent hits on iori way before he was gloating, and kyo's always taunting iori as well.

Call me insane but I think it's Kyo Kusanagi causing all this flaming. He has flame powers, for the love of god!!! Damn him.

Fairness? My information is just as canon and official as some pictures you pull off the net, perhaps even moreso. I don't go looking for net based info Sado, because I do not need it, I have the games, and thats all that is required to make my cases, and thats fair, reasonable, and official, don't like it? don't make false claims that I can rebut with info from the game.

Do you realise just how bad that sounds? your basing a characters entire career on ONE incident? even if what ash says is true, it could easily have been a one off event, or even that Ash can weaken Iori, since Ash's powers are an unknown factor, even moreso since he took Chizuru's in 2003.

There are a load of factors to consider, including R.Iori's much more impressive resume over regular Iori

Ash's powers affecting the 3 sacred treasures, Iori being weakened could be atributed to any number of things

does that mean that generally Riot Iori is weaker than his normal self?

I need something more than Ash's word for that to be generally accepted, not to mention that you've been using this as a license to overhype Regular Iori to ridiculous levels... it's sickening to see that.

so you admit having more orochi power infused makes you stronger.

as for the 98 vid. i recall kyo geting quite a few decent hits on iori way before he was gloating, and kyo's always taunting iori as well.

so basically the only decent hits Kyo landed only TWO decent shots on Iori: one when Iori was gloating and the other when Iori didn't see it coming and had lost his temper. Iori had a solid control on the bout. heck most of the cut scenes started with kyo being pushed back or staggering or being hit.

~Sado
P.S. by the way, lightness, my apologies for the flame. sorry about that.

Charlie wasn't downplaying Bison's power, not to mention thatBison was an enemy, why would he trashtalk on the radio to his allies that Bison WILL blow up the capital... he had absolutely NO reason to lie about the threat Bison posed.

~Sado

Yeah that video is credible, but we don't see any clear cut winner, as with many of their confrontations in the games, it always ends with the same old sizing up and hitting eachother, then explosion, and we don't see who won.

Originally posted by Sado22
congrads, brain, you are hereby get preceptive puppy badge.
this is the lamest thing i've heard from you, bud.
and don't give me the "you're the only person who..." thing. let me clear it out to you that when i came here i was:
-the only person who thought 3D fighters stood a chance against 2D fighters
-claimed Jin kazama is a beast
-argued that Jinpachi can destroy the world
-argued that Iori is godtier

etc etc.
right about now, all these things are considered FACTS on KMC now.

Originally posted by Sado22
all thanks to me and "me being the only person who thinks so"

so its fixed then: you have no rebuttal and are just trying to save face.

Originally posted by Sado22
-Iori actually pwned Orochi Yashiro who is far stronger than Goenitz
-Iori also neutralized the soure of their powers, Orochi.
-not to mention that Iori is also always shown as a boss character. in official arts of hte whole cast, he's always standing next to the bosses, he came around as a single entry in KoF97 etc.

like i said before, Riot iori's vast superiority in KoF97 is mainly because Iori never once fought more than entire teams on his own. and since you love endings so much and look for in-game evidence all the time, enlighten me on something:
-Orochi Iori, as if what you say is true, became weak and tired after fighting kyo and shingo and yet, Iori took down whole teams in KoF97, took down billy and eiji without breaking a sweat and took down his KoF2001 team without a sweat either. it doesn't even make any sense for him to get "tired and weakened" after fighting TWO people.
-and tell me something, old friend. wy in the world are quotes vague only when it comes to KoF? seriously: for one everything you've said is easily rebutted by in-game quotes but you consider them "vague" despite them NOT being vague. however, all that perfectly admissiable when its SF because if Charlie says bison can destroy cities then he sure as hell can because....why?
Mature was clear: iori is stronger than Goenitz
Ash was clear: Riot's iori's power is declining steadily.

Originally posted by Sado22
look dark, despite how badly your pissing me off, i'll try to stay civil.
all i want from you is proof of what you're saying. i'm not like you. i don't play hide and seek when proof is brought to me. i was more than happy to agree to many corrections emperor and others have done in my own info. charlotte is even here on this thread and you can ask her if you don't believe me.
however the priobelm is this:
you go around saying stuff like Saishu is stronger than Kyo but when i ask for proof you give me none. when all that isn't bad enough you go around claiming that my proof isnt good enough cuz you don't believe me. what the f--k is that supposed to be?
when i insist you show me proof, you go around saying you'll lose respect for me if i keep on asking cuz you have "in-game" proof. what in-game proof?! saishu and kyo is in-game? how is it in-game darko? saishu was pwned by regular rugal while Kyo beat him. benimaru and goro were outcold early in the fight leaving kyo to do all the fighitng. how is that NOT stronger or better than Saishu.
on top of all that when people bring you proof it seems you don't even look at it....which would explain why you're still adamant that Jinpachi cannot destroy existence/world whatever despite the links and videos i've shown you.
if you wanna talk about respect, i have a very painful little amount left for you as a debator. you want proof but never provide any. you deny proof. on top of all that you mock others' proof while you have none.
go play your two-faced games somewhere else.

I don't care if you think I'm the worst debator on the Planet Sado, thats not what we're here for, This is not a popularity contest or some schoolyard fight. I bring to the table my own evidence, I cannot provide you the game can I? I can't post the game in these threads... I wish I could, but I can't. You have a problem with my debating style and tactics? I don't particularly give half a shit. I provide an unbiased debate based on the highest canon, so reguardless of whatever pics and videoes and shit you bring to the table, I can still dispute them with the games.

I look at all the evidence Sado, and I either agfree with them, or dispute them...

Now look here, Your Jinpachi stuff was discredited because they where non-canon endings... UIf you keep harping on like a banshee about them, you'll open up hell's door of non-canon material. you where arguing the validity of non-canon with DarkC in the opposite direction, what has changed your mind on it now?

I'm willing to admit I was wrong about Saishu, but thats not really what your debating about is it? Normal Rugal? we where not even debating him. Omega pwned a cast, Normal Iori didn't, Riot Iori did, it's his feat, Iori hasn't been able to do that before or since, these are the facts, and they cannot be disputed.

Two faced games? Your getting personal again Sado... If you don't want to be mocked, then don't do things that warrant a mocking.

Originally posted by Sado22
we don't need to do this. i can provide a lot of instances where you came across as a total jackass too. but i'm not playing those cards with you.
riot iori appeared twice. and both time he got pwned. he took on the entire cast of KoF97 with no info about it. all we know is that it was a combined effort that brought him down. the other time we see him is again vague when he beats up kyo and shingo. oh and a breif incident in KoF96 when he attacked Vice and Mature and killed them.
as for kagura's powers, Ash took them yes, but he passed this comment when he arrived and saw Riot Iori, not after the fight. so, no dice.

WTF? I was pointing to something in relation to this very thread... Why does that make me a jackass? And being close enough to Ash was enough, remember, R.Iori was owning at LEAST half the 97 cast solo, something normal Iori has never done before or since. Unless your going to claim that that is the isolated incident, with absolutely nothing to explain it.

I did not dispute that Ash said what he said, but the fact remains, you've based that R.Iori is overwhelmingly weaker than normal Iori while Ash's words never gave anyone an indicator of where R.Iori stood in relation to normal Iori... you automatically assumed that thats hat he meant and jumped into it with both feet.

Originally posted by Sado22
do tell? feats? like being tired after fighting kyo and shingo, while Iori's fought Kyo for a long time and still shown no sign of fatigue?
*koF98 intro and KoFZillion video*

Fatigue is subjective... Are you really saying that R.Iori never gets tired? thast retarded.

Originally posted by Sado22
like what? i already proved you wrong with the Kagura mirror stuff. what else you got?

No, you only proved that Ash said what he said before the fight... nothing else

Originally posted by Sado22
since you've yet to provide any "reason" for iori being weaker....yes it does.

No it doesn't, and I already have, since R.Iori's Orochi blood is awakened when he's in riot form, he has access to much more Orochi power... Thank you very much.

Originally posted by Sado22
i'm not overhyping him at all. all i've stated so far are things he's done. you call it jobbing, i call it a feat regardless of what it is cuz at the end of the day it goes down in his resume as a feat.
and once again, i'm waiting for you to say something that directly rebutts Ash's words and all the evidence i've provided.

See above, I didn't rebutt the fact that he said it, but the context of which you mistaken it for. You made an assumption and expect everyone to take it as fact.

And Kyo/Iori/Chizuru > Orochi was due to plot device, therefore it's inadmissable in debates. It'll happen every time you bring that up Sado.

Originally posted by Sado22
what? i said Iori carries Orochi power and more of it than Rugal. orochi iori is a mindless beast. period. he is iori being controlled by Orochi. nothing more. nothing less.

😆

Alright Darko and everyone:
I spent the whole day today looking through every KoF game and faq and article i could find. i played all the kof games in the orochi saga and got the whole translated faq of KoFkyo.
my find is:
-kusanagi flames are normal ki flames without any gimick. there is not even a single fact pointing to otherwise and if it is, i'm dying to know from all of you.
-the flames aren't kryptonite to orochi either. the kusanagi clan specially deviced techniques (along with yasakani) to seal off the orochi menace. to do this they formed a special fighting style that incorporated chinese martial arts and pyrotechniques. both yagami and yasakani mastered and varied their techniques accordingly.
-yasakani neutralizes, kusanagi defeats and yatta seals.

however,
-many years later the yasakani's became the weakest of the three clans with the kusanagi's the strongest, socially as well as in terms of power.
-jealous, the yasakani clan made a bloodpact with Orochi clan to turn the favor for themselves
-the Orochi gave the yasakani GODLY powers but since the human body cannot contain such power, they have short life spans as their body withers away slowly.
-the yasakani flames became purple OROCHI flames
-what they didn't know was that the orochi could control them at any given time. any full blooded orochi can control the yagami's. probably the kof96 outburst of Iori that killed vice and mature was Goenitz's "going away present" since he did say "you'll see" before dying.
-but what seems to contradict is Iori's own quote: "i will never teach the yagami flame techniques to anyone but a yagami" in Kof:Kyo. werent it for this quote everything would make sense. to add to this is the fact that Shermie is one who taught Kyo's cousin, Aoi, the way of weilding purple flames. the term used for them, again, was Orochi flames, and even iori refers to his flames as Orochi flames. so so much for your theory of yagami magatama, darko.
-to me it seems that the orochi power makes Iori's flames hotter and stronger but then why the hell can anyone master it if yagami's could only do it after a bloodpact?! it seems that all orochi's know how to weild purple flames (Shermie being one who taught Aoi Kusanagi) and Orochi Chris weilding them himself. either this or the power is more internal for the orochi blooded people. it goes to explain yamazaki and leona's super human capabilites (leona could chop a tree down at the age of 6!) and would then make more sense. the purple flames, hence, are merely a sign of the corruption. since Iori's powers are his flames, his flames wind up becoming godly in terms of strength as was the promise of the blood pact: godly powers.

and so, i yeild--yagami is not a mere human. seems you were right brain🙂
iori aint a regular human. the yagami's get extra boosts of strength since orochi power is godly but unable to be contained in a human body without effecting it. hence the tell tale coughing of blood and the early age dying.

but the flames of yasakani are orochi flames now. in-game evidence 🙄 points to it with the fact that Orochi chris and iori's flames are the same. the kusanagi and yasakani both had the same flames, crimson. they weren't unique and it seems to me that this points against the much loved jobbing scenario since both the yasakani and kusanagi flames are one and the same. yasakani merely neutralized orochi while kusanagi's defeated it....but the flames are both the same thing, that is, the pyrotechniques the clans mastered togethered. the orochi blood then combined with the yasakani's to make the flames purple. they became orochi flames from then on. period. there is no proof or evidence to anythign that contradicts this.

thus far i was right about two things:
-Iori is godtier
-the flames aren't kryptonite

***
Riot of Blood
this is the most complex and weird concept. even now after all the research i'm still confused about it. would appreciate any help from you people.

the low down is this:
in-game Iori in this form gets a mega boost in power and speed. the original description of this is when Iori's orochi blood awakens fully (evidence is Goenitz's comments to both Iori and Leona in KoF96 and KoF97). also in-game we see that it can only be triggered by a fullblooded orochi or an orochi himself as seen in KoF96 and KoF97 kyo/iori/kagura ending when orochi controls him. however, iori did show that he can, infact, fight it as well with great will power (this guy rocks!).

but then there are contradictory bits like kusanagi's also entering riot of blood (Souji Kusanagi entered riot of blood prior to KoF97 as seen in KoF:Kyo and Kyo himself enters it when he does his HDSM in KoF2001 onwards as is evident with his facial expressions, grinning and eyes darkened).
so that much is obvious: it hasn't got to do that much with blood as is normally believed since why else do the kusanagi's, a clan clean off the orochi blood, enter this state.

as far as power is concerned, riot form is seems to be more powerful due to the Orochi blood being fully awake. that explains the increase in speed too. i can't say for sure but Orochi blood awakening is a vague term because what does it mean exactly: that orochi blood is normally dormant in Iori and only awakes in this mode...but it doesnt' make sense as otherwise the Yasakani's wouldn't have made such a pact.
to me since Orochi Iori is Iori in berserker rage, he is stronger in the same sense as a person suffering from such a rage becomes stronger because he no longer restrains himself (guts for instance becomes faster and stronger when he goes berserk). berserk infact means just this.
beserker rage, in fact, seems to be the best explanation of it since kyo performs his HSDM in the sagas that he is extremely angry in (koF2001 at Igniz and nests and in KoF2003 onwards where he is enraged at Ash and the recurring Orochi trouble). and we all know that kyo isn't even remotely orochi. so Riot of blood is merely a state of mind and in iori's case a state of mind he is put into by Orochi since he exists in Iori's blood (the orochi blood in him).

hence the expression "blood's awakening" is merely another shady japanese metaphor. what it basically means is that the dormant orochi blood is now controllig Iori's mind...not giving him extra boosts of power and what is generally believed in. it is simply BESERKER rage induced by Oroch in Iori's mind.

also "power" and "strong" are terms used in japanese videogames for "fighting power" pretty often. to be more specific, saying a person is stronger than the other doesn't necessarily mean physically stronger but that the person is a better fighter. best example, Ryu's words to Apocolypse in MvsSF: "let only the stronger one survive!"

Ash could very well have been talking about Iori's overall fighting powers. normal iori is a fighting genius who mentally dominates a fight and unnerves his opponent throught taunting and bantering with the opponent. Orochi Iori however is a mindless machine that knows only outright attacks. if we take it from this point of view, Ash IS correct: if Riot Iori is fighting someone more powerful than himself then he is in for a sure defeat because he'll be doing an outright attack. if we look at it this way then it makes the most sense in the world. do you all agree?

so seems i was right and wrong: phsycially Iori may be weaker than Riot Iori but as an overall fighter, Iori is still "stronger". i'm sure everyone agrees to this.

as for what Darko pointed out: from what level was Riot Iori's powers declining from? to me, if we take power literally, then i guess Riot Iori's powers were declining from Iori's normal powerlevel. i'll stick to this opinion until someone has a better opinion.

~Sado
P.S. i expect some kudos for all the work and typing here 😠

Originally posted by Sado22
and so, i yeild--yagami is not a mere human. seems you were right brain🙂
iori aint a regular human. the yagami's get extra boosts of strength since orochi power is [b]godly but unable to be contained in a human body without effecting it. hence the tell tale coughing of blood and the early age dying.[/B]

Originally posted by Sado22
but the flames of yasakani are orochi flames now. in-game evidence 🙄 points to it with the fact that Orochi chris and iori's flames are the same. the kusanagi and yasakani both had the same flames, crimson. they weren't unique and it seems to me that this points against the much loved jobbing scenario since both the yasakani and kusanagi flames are one and the same. yasakani merely neutralized orochi while kusanagi's defeated it....but the flames are both the same thing, that is, the pyrotechniques the clans mastered togethered. the orochi blood then combined with the yasakani's to make the flames purple. they became orochi flames from then on. period. there is no proof or evidence to anythign that contradicts this.

thus far i was right about two things:
-Iori is godtier
-the flames aren't kryptonite

***
Riot of Blood
this is the most complex and weird concept. even now after all the research i'm still confused about it. would appreciate any help from you people.

the low down is this:
in-game Iori in this form gets a mega boost in power and speed. the original description of this is when Iori's orochi blood awakens fully (evidence is Goenitz's comments to both Iori and Leona in KoF96 and KoF97). also in-game we see that it can only be triggered by a fullblooded orochi or an orochi himself as seen in KoF96 and KoF97 kyo/iori/kagura ending when orochi controls him. however, iori did show that he can, infact, fight it as well with great will power (this guy rocks!).

but then there are contradictory bits like kusanagi's also entering riot of blood (Souji Kusanagi entered riot of blood prior to KoF97 as seen in KoF:Kyo and Kyo himself enters it when he does his HDSM in KoF2001 onwards as is evident with his facial expressions, grinning and eyes darkened).
so that much is obvious: it hasn't got to do that much with blood as is normally believed since why else do the kusanagi's, a clan clean off the orochi blood, enter this state.

as far as power is concerned, riot form is seems to be more powerful due to the Orochi blood being fully awake. that explains the increase in speed too. i can't say for sure but Orochi blood awakening is a vague term because what does it mean exactly: that orochi blood is normally dormant in Iori and only awakes in this mode...but it doesnt' make sense as otherwise the Yasakani's wouldn't have made such a pact.
to me since Orochi Iori is Iori in berserker rage, he is stronger in the same sense as a person suffering from such a rage becomes stronger because he no longer restrains himself (guts for instance becomes faster and stronger when he goes berserk). berserk infact means just this.
beserker rage, in fact, seems to be the best explanation of it since kyo performs his HSDM in the sagas that he is extremely angry in (koF2001 at Igniz and nests and in KoF2003 onwards where he is enraged at Ash and the recurring Orochi trouble). and we all know that kyo isn't even remotely orochi. so Riot of blood is merely a state of mind and in iori's case a state of mind he is put into by Orochi since he exists in Iori's blood (the orochi blood in him).

hence the expression "blood's awakening" is merely another shady japanese metaphor. what it basically means is that the dormant orochi blood is now controllig Iori's mind...not giving him extra boosts of power and what is generally believed in. it is simply BESERKER rage induced by Oroch in Iori's mind.

also "power" and "strong" are terms used in japanese videogames for "fighting power" pretty often. to be more specific, saying a person is stronger than the other doesn't necessarily mean physically stronger but that the person is a better fighter. best example, Ryu's words to Apocolypse in MvsSF: "let only the stronger one survive!"

Ash could very well have been talking about Iori's overall fighting powers. normal iori is a fighting genius who mentally dominates a fight and unnerves his opponent throught taunting and bantering with the opponent. Orochi Iori however is a mindless machine that knows only outright attacks. if we take it from this point of view, Ash IS correct: if Riot Iori is fighting someone more powerful than himself then he is in for a sure defeat because he'll be doing an outright attack. if we look at it this way then it makes the most sense in the world. do you all agree?

so seems i was right and wrong: phsycially Iori may be weaker than Riot Iori but as an overall fighter, Iori is still "stronger". i'm sure everyone agrees to this.

as for what Darko pointed out: from what level was Riot Iori's powers declining from? to me, if we take power literally, then i guess Riot Iori's powers were declining from Iori's normal powerlevel. i'll stick to this opinion until someone has a better opinion.

~Sado
P.S. i expect some kudos for all the work and typing here 😠

Go a head and do it.

i still don't think iori is god tier, or much stronger than kyo if any. he's close, but both of them together wasn't enough to keep mukai down.

See!? All that assholery you did was for nothing. I'm almost always right. Whenever I say something it's safer to just assume I'm right because I'm saying it & I'm me! If I say a flea can pull a plow, don't ask how. Just hitch him the f*ck up mane

It's more than I'd have done. I got a theory on the riot stuff, but it might invovle a lot of typing. I'll do it if ya'll really want me too.

i still don't think iori is god tier, or much stronger than kyo if any. he's close, but both of them together wasn't enough to keep mukai down.

~Sado

TO CONTINUE ORE-SAMA'S THEORY:

@Charlotte
that's why...riot of blood is a state of mind rather than his blood "waking up" (damn japanese people and their love for clouded metaphors!). that's what we see in Iori's SvsC ending as well. seems that the orochi blood somehow retains Orochi's consciousness which then tampers with Iori's mind making him berserk. i've already adressed that. otherwise there is literally no explanation for Riot of blood in Kusanagi's.

as for the flame gene, like i said for some reason techniques pass on via genetic framework. its not unlike Kazuya's devil powers that passed on to jin as "devil gene". its the same with the kusanagi's and yagami's. apparently techniques become a part of the genetic framework. AGAIN, to give examples: kaphwans, howards, bernstiens etc all have their father's ki's (rock's purple flames etc) while some even have the same moves.
as to what you pointed out with K' and Krizalid NOT doing kusanagi ryu moves is explainable. for one kusanagi ryu is a mix of chinese martial arts and their own pyrotechniques. so its likely that the pyrotechniques are what actually pass on and not the martial arts. this makes perfect sense when we look at the fact that the kusanagi's were expert flame weilders before they even incorporated the chinese martial arts to take on Orochi. the other explanation for K and Krizalid not knowing kusanagi ryu is the fact that k' is not actually a full clone of kyo but merely a child infused with his flame gene, i.e. his pyrotechnique knowledge that has been passed on in the kusanagi family for centuries. notice how Kyo's clones perform pyrotechniques AND his moves. K' only performs the pyroctechniques. and finally, NESTS weren't tyring to make an ULTIMATE Kyo clone in the case of k' and krizalid. him not doing kusanagi ryu could very well be their tampering with him.

@Styletime
dude i already said riot iori is stronger than iori as far as physical strength is concenred. however, over all "fighting capabilities" (technique, priority, tactic, mind games and overall balance as a fighter) is in Iori's favor since he isn't a brainless monster whose strings are being pulled by someone else. get my meaning. like i said, "strong" is sometimes simply used to refer to overall "fighting valor".
regular iori is a sharp ffighting genius but riot iori is just a brainless @$$ who knows how to do an outright attack. oh and i was reading that Ash used Yata's mirror powers to seal off Iori's powers and then beat him up. if it were regular Iori he would stood a better chance since regular iori doesn't attack that much (videos are good example) but riot iori didn't stand a chance against a shrewd bastard like Ash cuz he attacks like a moron without any game plan.
it all makes sense now.

*pats himself in the back*
Damn i'm good! 😠

~Sado

Sado, I'm definitively not going through that post quote for quote.

Firstly you've already contradicted yourself by claiming that the Magatama flames are not hereditary. When you also claimed that K' inherited this socalled "Flame Gene" that doesn't exist.

Second, even though the Riot is technically a state of mind in all but the most basic sense, it's not brought on by emotion like a normal person... it's brought on by the Blood in him awakening, and becoming more active. Remember, Orochi is a tricky bastard, he agreed to the blood pact to eliminate the Yagami from the equasion, by pitting them against the Kusanagi.

And perhaps you FINALLY understand what I meant, Never did I claim that Riot Iori was the better fighter technically, but he is stronger, and wields more power and speed... Normal Iori is definitely more intelligent, and technically savvy than his Berzerker self... that would be very stupid of me to say that... But the way you worded it was that Iori was in every single way, weaker than normal, which makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Technique *Agreed*, Priority *Err?*, Intelligence and mind games *Agreed*, Balance *Thats a hard one to determine, even though Iori is more intelligent as normal, Riot Iori does not seem to forget his moves even as a berzerker...

Third The Flame techniquues are passed on through teachings, yes, however, the ability to SUMMON the magatama flames are directly inherited, is this not true, and is this not what I have been saying?

Now, as for weather or not the Orochi thing was technique or power based, Since it is said only those of the bloodline could ever defeat Orochi, I'm inclinded to say that it's the powers more than the techniques, otherwise anyone can beat Orochi, and that makes him the ULTMATE Jobber... Now even though Orochi's defeat was a case of Plot Device either way, which path do you want to take?

Another thing, that text you posted below even says that the Yagami flames are CORRUPTED, not taken over by his Orochi power, if what you said was true, and Iori could only wield the flames of Orochi, then how in the hell can he then wield ONLY the Magatama flames during his fight with Goenitz? This tells me that the Orochi power in Iori Transforms the flames into corrupted Magatama, but retains enough of it's original self to distinguish it from pure Orochi flames (Like those the Chris wields)

Anyways... I don't need this to run around in circles again...

Also when K' finally mastered flame control after KOF 2000, according to your theory he should have remade his whole style by example of Kusanagi-ryu. But that never happened.

By the way, "reverse gene" which gives Kula her icy powers, also has nothing to do with Kusanagi-ryu...as well as Kula's moveset which mirrors K'.

Techniques and powers are related, but not THE SAME THING. There are "bloodline-related" MA practicioners, who are not able to summon true flames but only their imitation created with their own chi.

I've heard the theory about Riot of Blood that says that the blood in those moments becomes "sentient", turning person for a short time into mindless berserker avatar of Orochi. That thing about avatar explains "Orochi poisoning" caused by Shermie to some Kusanagi bloodline members, by the way.

Didn't Kyo experience Blood Riot once??

the kims all trained with their father so why can't they have a lot of the same moves.

as for rock and adelheid, there's nowhere that says they never trained or tried to copy some of their moves. aldelheid could of just looked at his father's data and emulate his fighting style to pay homeage to him

Firstly you've already contradicted yourself by claiming that the Magatama flames are not hereditary. When you also claimed that K' inherited this socalled "Flame Gene" that doesn't exist.

Second, even though the Riot is technically a state of mind in all but the most basic sense, it's not brought on by emotion like a normal person... it's brought on by the Blood in him awakening, and becoming more active. Remember, Orochi is a tricky bastard, he agreed to the blood pact to eliminate the Yagami from the equasion, by pitting them against the Kusanagi.

And perhaps you FINALLY understand what I meant, Never did I claim that Riot Iori was the better fighter technically, but he is stronger, and wields more power and speed... Normal Iori is definitely more intelligent, and technically savvy than his Berzerker self... that would be very stupid of me to say that... But the way you worded it was that Iori was in every single way, weaker than normal, which makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Technique *Agreed*, Priority *Err?*, Intelligence and mind games *Agreed*, Balance *Thats a hard one to determine, even though Iori is more intelligent as normal, Riot Iori does not seem to forget his moves even as a berzerker...

Third The Flame techniquues are passed on through teachings, yes, however, the ability to SUMMON the magatama flames are directly inherited, is this not true, and is this not what I have been saying?

Now, as for weather or not the Orochi thing was technique or power based, Since it is said only those of the bloodline could ever defeat Orochi, I'm inclinded to say that it's the powers more than the techniques, otherwise anyone can beat Orochi, and that makes him the ULTMATE Jobber... Now even though Orochi's defeat was a case of Plot Device either way, which path do you want to take?

Another thing, that text you posted below even says that the Yagami flames are CORRUPTED, not taken over by his Orochi power, if what you said was true, and Iori could only wield the flames of Orochi, then how in the hell can he then wield ONLY the Magatama flames during his fight with Goenitz? This tells me that the Orochi power in Iori Transforms the flames into corrupted Magatama, but retains enough of it's original self to distinguish it from pure Orochi flames (Like those the Chris wields)

Anyways... I don't need this to run around in circles again

Also when K' finally mastered flame control after KOF 2000, according to your theory he should have remade his whole style by example of Kusanagi-ryu. But that never happened.

I've heard the theory about Riot of Blood that says that the blood in those moments becomes "sentient", turning person for a short time into mindless berserker avatar of Orochi. That thing about avatar explains "Orochi poisoning" caused by Shermie to some Kusanagi bloodline members, by the way.

as for rock and adelheid, there's nowhere that says they never trained or tried to copy some of their moves. aldelheid could of just looked at his father's data and emulate his fighting style to pay homeage to him

on top of all that is Rock's own words when he performs raging storm: he hunches over and whines "why does my evil blood boil?!"
are you convinced now?

~Sado

Rock & Iori are awesome