Iceman Vs. Magneto

Started by batdude12314 pages

Yeah, he could send Bobby to another dimension.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Dr Strange touched upon it when he conversed with Wanda. Wanda affects causality and reality, she makes unlikely things possible. Magneto's never shown that level of highly controlled power output before, and there's no sufficient mass to draw upon to create one.

So this is speculation at best. 😉

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
To levitate a few children. Nothing to suggest the control of gravitation force required for black hole or wormhole formation.

Your point? He affected gravity. The unified theory of energy applies to him.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, he could send Bobby to another dimension.
To which I asked which.
Originally posted by batdude123
So this is speculation at best. 😉
Like the whole unified field theory thing? SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities.
Originally posted by batdude123
Your point? He affected gravity. The unified theory of energy applies to him.
I think you mean unified field theory (see demi did it better...). Thus far I've seen no examples of him affecting strong and weak forces, and one relatively crappy example of him affecting gravity. On that basis he's living unified field theory and has sufficient gravitational control to create wormholes. ❌

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
To which I asked which.

Whenever... wherever... 😖

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Like the whole unified field theory thing? SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities.

Not really. Going all is how he was able to accomplish it. "Going all-out" is a plot device in comics as much as T-Vo is. 😖

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I think you mean unified field theory (see demi did it better...).

Whatever... 😂

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Thus far I've seen no examples of him affecting strong and weak forces, and one relatively crappy example of him affecting gravity. On that basis he's living unified field theory and has sufficient gravitational control to create wormholes. ❌

Yeah, 'cause he's done so before. 🤨

Originally posted by batdude123
Whenever... wherever... 😖
Weird things are important to me...
Originally posted by batdude123
Not really. Going all is how he was able to accomplish it. "Going all-out" is a plot device in comics as much as T-Vo is. 😖
It's vastly beyond any control of gravitational force he's ever achieved, it involves the creation of a wormhole from no mass, it qualifies pretty well as SvFL.
Originally posted by batdude123
Whatever... 😂
Yeah, 'cause he's done so before. 🤨
SvFL, why Storm can't create sun lasers on the forum.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Weird things are important to me...

Indeed. 😂

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's vastly beyond any control of gravitational force he's ever achieved, it involves the creation of a wormhole from no mass, it qualifies pretty well as SvFL.

It's not exactly SvFL. Electromagnetic energy is related to wormholes as well. And he was going all out with his powers. Shit in comics doesn't make sense. You're trying to add a hint rationality to it which I find hilarious (no offense).

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
SvFL, why Storm can't create sun lasers on the forum.

'Cause she's never done so before. 😂 And Magneto has created a wormhole before... 😂 💃

And anybody who can do this to Wolverine is AT LEAST skyfather level... 😖hifty:

http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magnetoripslogansadamantiumoutqy9.jpg
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=7186154

😛

Poor Wolverine.

Hmm I've more closely inspected and thought about the New Mutants scan. He says something like he "generates enough power to reverse gravity." which doesn't imply controlling gravity at all. It really means all he's doing is creating an opposite force to gravity, opposing gravitation with electromagnetic force. Gravity is the force of attraction between two bodies of mass, it's not a repulsive force that can be used to levitate.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Poor Wolverine.

Hmm I've more closely inspected and thought about the New Mutants scan. He says something like he "generates enough power to reverse gravity." which doesn't imply controlling gravity at all. It really means all he's doing is creating an opposite force to gravity, opposing gravitation with electromagnetic force. Gravity is the force of attraction between two bodies of mass, it's not a repulsive force that can be used to levitate.

doh

Originally posted by batdude123
doh
Care to elaborate?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Care to elaborate?

Real-world rationale used in comics? Need I say more? If it states he reversed gravity in the scans, then it can be implied that he manipulated the gravitational forces of the area. It's like when Superman or someone pushes a planet. They assume the handstand position, right? Well, all that requires is thrust and and flight speed. However, the author implies that it required a tremendous amount of strength, thus dubbing it as a strength feat. Comic book writers aren't scientists, really...

Originally posted by batdude123
Real-world rationale used in comics? Need I say more? If it states he reversed gravity in the scans, then it can be implied that he manipulated the gravitational forces of the area. It's like when Superman or someone pushes a planet. They assume the handstand position, right? Well, all that requires is thrust and and flight speed. However, the author implies that it required a tremendous amount of strength, thus dubbing it as a strength feat. Comic book writers aren't scientists, really...

"Behold what occurs when I generate enough power to effectively reverse gravity."

The implication is that he used electromagnetism to create an oppositional force to gravity effectively reversing it. Not that he actually manipulated gravity.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"Behold what occurs when I generate enough power to effectively reverse gravity."

The implication is that he used electromagnetism to create an oppositional force to gravity effectively reversing it. Not that he actually manipulated gravity.

That's certainly open to different interpretations. 😬

Originally posted by batdude123
That's certainly open to different interpretations. 😬
Well, I don't really expect to convince you that the one and only possibly gravity affecting feat may just be another electromagnetic feat. 😬

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Well, I don't really expect to convince you that the one and only possibly gravity affecting feat MAY just be another electromagnetic feat. 😬

You said it... leftright

Originally posted by batdude123
I'll deal with Blair Wind's post later, but for now I'll deal with yours.

When?? 🙄

Originally posted by Roldz
Mags would have complete control over all forms natural disaster killing the planet, splitting it in half (EM field) then wormhole out of there to say Shiar.. I dont think Bobby could survive on a dead planet.. Of course this is way out of his Char..

Magneto doesnt have enough power to effect the WHOLE planet without a external powerup (Exodus, or tech)

Iceman on the other hand can coalesce loads of water vapor in one place and freeze it, the humidity all along the Eastern Seaboard would drop dramatically, we'd have wildcat lightning storms all over the place, cats and dogs living together, it would be anarchy, you see my point. (again for those who didnt understand he can coalesce all the water vapor in an area into a superdense solid, dropping the humidity rapidly, resulting in chaotic weather effects, mass electrical storms, hurricanes, tsunami's, tornados, ect.) Iceman CAN affect the planet since he can freeze as much water vapor as he wants. And all he has to do is hitch a ride in magnetos water supply, freeze him from the inside out and he dies 😬 )
Either way Iceman wins 😬

Originally posted by Blair Wind
When?? 🙄

Tomorrow, ass. mhm

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Magneto doesnt have enough power to effect the WHOLE planet without a external powerup (Exodus, or tech)

Iceman on the other hand can coalesce loads of water vapor in one place and freeze it, the humidity all along the Eastern Seaboard would drop dramatically, we'd have wildcat lightning storms all over the place, cats and dogs living together, it would be anarchy, you see my point. (again for those who didnt understand he can coalesce all the water vapor in an area into a superdense solid, dropping the humidity rapidly, resulting in chaotic weather effects, mass electrical storms, etc.) Iceman CAN affect the planet since he can freeze as much water vapor as he wants. And all he has to do is hitch a ride in magnetos water supply, freeze him from the inside out and he dies 😬 )
Either way Iceman wins 😬

I didn't post that. 🤨

Originally posted by batdude123
Tomorrow, ass. mhm

Chicken 😈

Originally posted by batdude123
I didn't post that. 🤨

No one said you did 😕

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Chicken 😈

Not really. I'm waiting for the scans you wanted. 😬 That, and I'm tired.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
No one said you did 😕

Switcheroo. 😛

Originally posted by batdude123
Not really. I'm waiting for the scans you wanted. 😬 That, and I'm tired.

Even WITH the scan (and it may or may not exist, and if it does it may or may not be the exactly what you want it to be) it would not prove that Iceman stopping Eric's complete molecular motion would power him up since an Ice shard is much less efficient offensively and is a more "physical" way of hurting someone. It is also different in terms of what it the event is actually doing.

Option A:

Physical confrontation with Ice Shard COULD POTENTIALLY (if the scan is accurate in your description) power Magneto up. What is the ice shard however? A physical object piercing flesh and making the persons insides cold because IT is cold. Not exactly all that great in terms of Comic Book "weapons".

Also freezing the environment in hopes that Magnetos internal temp would go down. Magneto DOES have a shield and in that way he could break free. Hell if your right the cold emanating from it MIGHT even power him up. However that is because his internal temp was not DIRECTLY affected. Thus we go on to Option B

Option B:

-Freezing his very molecules (We know Iceman doesn't "project cold", so then he must absorb or dissipate the heat. By the laws of thermodynamics, energy is constant, it cannot be created or destroyed. However, let's go to another scientific principle. Heat is a measurement of the internal kinetic energy of an object. The more those atoms and molecules are buzzing around, the hotter it is. Therefore he just efficiently and instantly STOPS those atoms and molecules thus "freezing" the object, or person)

-transmuting his very water supply into water vapor (wonder how fast that would kill him??)

-transmuting his head into water vapor (as shown that he can turn others into water vapor as well)

-rip all the water from Eric's body (completely dehydrating him into nothing but sand, and just making Iceman more powerful)

-freeze his water supply (flash freeze, ala legion)

-coalesce all the water vapor in an area into a superdense solid, dropping the humidity rapidly, resulting in chaotic weather effects, mass electrical storms, hurricanes, tsunami's, tornado's, etc.

All these effects do NOT need to go through Magnetos shield as they can directly effect his very self, and simply bypass it.

It seems to me the physical confrontations would be pathetic and much more limited compared to the more efficient ways to win. Also seems like they are two VERY different events, and such that even IF that scan that you like to use too much is accurate in your description it would have no bearing on the debate as is 😬

Well, it makes sense.

If a magnet is heated alot, it loses it's magnetism.
And, if it's cooled, it increases the magnetism.

It's not the first time it's happened in comics. I think it was an episode of JLU, but it still held it's relevance, when Fire blasted Dr. Polaris, and temporarily cut out his powers