Motherbox + Apokalips Tech Superman V Silver Surfer

Originally posted by illadelph12
Also, I'm of the school of thought that Surfer, like any intelligent GL, has what it takes to put regular Supes down, it's simply not depicted like that on panel due to Supes standing in the DCU (top dog/icon). He's got the perpetual "Hulk Hogan of the 80s" thing going (Doomsday was Undertaker).

i disagree. that's an old card, played too often, my friend. looking at purely feats and their regularity you cannot simply call it a consistent version of CIS. 😬

And the whole battle speed versus motion speed argument is hilarious. As we all know, if a character performed at full capacity all storylines would be meaningless. Just because Surfer doesn't bash every opponent in the first picosecond of battle doesn't mean he hasn't shown on numerous occasions to be capable.

that's the thing -- there have NOT been numerous occasions. in fact, there have been next to NONE. i've asked repeatedly for proof of his combat-style speed. can he use his speed a la superman, in close combat? probably. has it ever been shown in the same way? no. or at least very very rarely. again, the VAST bulk of evidence says he can travel huge distances instantly. bringing that speed to bear in close quarters is not necessarily the same thing.

It's threads like this one that made me retire from active debating. You have the band-wagoneers who feel secure in their numbers though they've provided no evidence to support their claims, and then when someone calls them on it somehow they are mistaken and ignorant.

i'd hardly call juntai, tyrant 'grok or myself band-wagoners . . . otoh you have a guy named SURF's up and quanchi (whom i like but whom i have never seen take a dc side in a debate . . .) arguing the other side. 😬

now, there is one point i will partially concede (and something i think goob was getting at) -- i wasn't looking at h/p when considering how this fight might go. i simply went looking back at feats performed by a motherbox. a motherbox HAS accomplished all the feats i (and others) have said and more. did supes use all these abilities in h/p? no. but like the surfer guys want to say he can use combat-style speed, (allowable by forum rules) so too is it allowable for supes to utilize FULLY the abilities of a motherbox. so if you (or anyone else) wants to claim supes could not fully USE all these powers, that again is your perogative and one that is hard to counter because he didn't. but for the purposes of a forum battle, i see no reason why he COULDN'T.

and . . . just how would ss avoid being taken out by torquasm-vo? 😕

there was a time i thought that ability was one that shouldn't really be considered, however, he has shown it numerous times and has used it to take out bigger guns than ss. dominus being the most obvious. no ss fan i have ever seen has ever really been able to counter the t-vo argument. 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
i disagree. that's an old card, played too often, my friend. looking at purely feats and their regularity you cannot simply call it a consistent version of CIS. 😬

that's the thing -- there have NOT been numerous occasions. in fact, there have been next to NONE. i've asked repeatedly for proof of his combat-style speed. can he use his speed a la superman, in close combat? probably. has it ever been shown in the same way? no. or at least very very rarely. again, the VAST bulk of evidence says he can travel huge distances instantly. bringing that speed to bear in close quarters is not necessarily the same thing.

i'd hardly call juntai, tyrant 'grok or myself band-wagoners . . . otoh you have a guy named SURF's up and quanchi (whom i like but whom i have never seen take a dc side in a debate . . .) arguing the other side. 😬

now, there is one point i will partially concede (and something i think goob was getting at) -- i wasn't looking at h/p when considering how this fight might go. i simply went looking back at feats performed by a motherbox. a motherbox HAS accomplished all the feats i (and others) have said and more. did supes use all these abilities in h/p? no. but like the surfer guys want to say he can use combat-style speed, (allowable by forum rules) so too is it allowable for supes to utilize FULLY the abilities of a motherbox. so if you (or anyone else) wants to claim supes could not fully USE all these powers, that again is your perogative and one that is hard to counter because he didn't. but for the purposes of a forum battle, i see no reason why he COULDN'T.

and . . . just how would ss avoid being taken out by torquasm-vo? 😕

there was a time i thought that ability was one that shouldn't really be considered, however, he has shown it numerous times and has used it to take out bigger guns than ss. dominus being the most obvious. no ss fan i have ever seen has ever really been able to counter the t-vo argument. 😬

Originally posted by quanchi112
i have argued plenty of times for a dc character. but i wont argue for anyone whom i dont believe in. in this matchup i feel that surfer still has enough to beat superman,. the mb makes it closer but doesnt affect the outsome. norrin for a close win.

cool. i disagree, but cool. 🙂

but maybe you can answer how he doesn't get taken out by torquasm-vo?

Originally posted by leonidas
cool. i disagree, but cool. 🙂

but maybe you can answer how he doesn't get taken out by torquasm-vo?

Originally posted by Priest
hey leo, can u explain wat T-Vo actually does. I know its some sort of Kyriptonian meditation technique..Ive been hearing that Supes can control reality to a certain degree, but on the other hand i've been hearing that its used as a TP attack causeing illustions and such..

The person utilizing this technique, can fight their opponent on a mental/astral plane.

Originally posted by Priest
hey leo, can u explain wat T-Vo actually does. I know its some sort of Kyriptonian meditation technique..Ive been hearing that Supes can control reality to a certain degree, but on the other hand i've been hearing that its used as a TP attack causeing illustions and such..

it's not tp. it's a . . . mental reality superman can create. within that reality, he CAN control what happens, so in that sense he can manipulate reality -- of the construct. thing is -- he can pull people into thios world, and once there, he can basically do anything he wants. i used to hate the ability -- it seemed like so much pis, and he basically comes across as invincible in this little world -- but he has used it several time.

avalon is the one who seems to know the power best. he's got (and has shown me) numerous scans of superman using the power. it is really impressive. i still don't like that they gave him someting like that, but he DOES have it, and it is something that is really difficult to argue against. and i should know cuz i've tried many times in ss v supes thread. 😬

Originally posted by Galan007
In short,

The person utilizing this technique, can fight their opponent on a mental/astral plane.

Originally posted by Galan007
In short,

The person utilizing this technique, can fight their opponent on a mental/astral plane.

pretty much -- except superman has the ability to utterly control the environment/reality in which they fight.

Originally posted by leonidas
it's not tp. it's a . . . mental reality superman can create. within that reality, he CAN control what happens, so in that sense he can manipulate reality -- of the construct. thing is -- he can pull people into thios world, and once there, he can basically do anything he wants. i used to hate the ability -- it seemed like so much pis, and he basically comes across as invincible in this little world -- but he has used it several time.

avalon is the one who seems to know the power best. he's got (and has shown me) numerous scans of superman using the power. it is really impressive. i still don't like that they gave him someting like that, but he DOES have it, and it is something that is really difficult to argue against. and i should know cuz i've tried many times in ss v supes thread. 😬

Torquasm vo basically would give him access to all the surfers powers. He could also cut the Surfer off from them. It's more than the astral plane.

Originally posted by leonidas
pretty much -- except superman has the ability to utterly control the environment/reality in which they fight.

Originally posted by Ranger Smith
Torquasm vo basically would give him access to all the surfers powers. He could also cut the Surfer off from them. It's more than the astral plane.

yeah. he could wrap ss in a bubble that stops him from absorbing ambient energy. he could nullify his own weakness to k-nite entirely.

it's a crazy-uber power that like i said, i still am not comfortable with, but with which he's done some crazy sh!t. 😬

Originally posted by Priest
Hmm interesting, u said that Avy out some scans up in the big Superman vs Surfr thread, right? Ill probally try to find some stuff.

i'll pm him. i don't think he'd mind showing off some of his knowledge. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah. he could wrap ss in a bubble that stops him from absorbing ambient energy. he could nullify his own weakness to k-nite entirely.

it's a crazy-uber power that like i said, i still am not comfortable with, but with which he's done some crazy sh!t. 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
i'll pm him. i don't think he'd mind showing off some of his knowledge. 🙂

Originally posted by Priest
so superman can forcefully make the opponent fight him in a Asteral Plane?
I still can picture that happnening to Surfer since he has high mental deffenses.

great, i know he wont mind, esspecailly if it makes Superman look good. 😉

he'll do a better job of answering your question than i will AND he'll have scans to support stuff. hopefully he's around at some point today. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
pretty much -- except superman has the ability to utterly control the environment/reality in which they fight.

I guess DC had to make him more unbeatable somehow, lol.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'll pm him. i don't think he'd mind showing off some of his knowledge. 🙂

He's just another fanboy.

j/k 😛

Originally posted by Galan007
j/k 😛

Originally posted by Priest
no your not 😛

evillaugh

Originally posted by Ranger Smith
Torquasm vo basically would give him access to all the surfers powers. He could also cut the Surfer off from them. It's more than the astral plane.

Pretty much. You bastids made me crack open the book to add a new scan.

Here is Superman controlling the environment (Dominus admits it) and even Luthor notices that Supes will has control of Dominus ability.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Pretty much. You bastids made me crack open the book to add a new scan.

Here is Superman controlling the environment (Dominus admits it) and even Luthor notices that Supes will has control of Dominus ability.

Originally posted by Priest
nice scan, but it looks like Dominus is willing to fight Superman in Asteral form...
Do u have anything that suggests that Superman can force a opponent to engage in Asteral fighting, a opponent with high end mental deffensses would be helpfull.

He wasn't willing at all..and Lois and Lex certainly didn't want to be in it.

The other scans I posted are in the Superman respect thread which has gotten pretty huge now. If you are willing to search..my scans are all there.