Motherbox + Apokalips Tech Superman V Silver Surfer

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
He wasn't willing at all..and Lois and Lex certainly didn't want to be in it.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
The other scans I posted are in the Superman respect thread which has gotten pretty huge now. If you are willing to search..my scans are all there.

Originally posted by Priest
so the whole "you can pick the battle field" from Dominus suggests that he wasn't willing to engage in Asteral fighting? 😕

He wasn't giving Clark the option of choosing the battlefield, he was mocking him as to say "no matter that you have the advantage...I'm still going to win."

Nobody has ever "broken" out of T-vo..including Superman himself when Kem-EL used it on him.

Originally posted by Priest
and Louis certainly doesn't count as opponents that has mental defenses, so that was a bad example.

Not at all. Those 2 are pretty strongwilled and were still sucked in..along with the robots around them.

Originally posted by Priest
if i have time later ill take a browse thru the thread.

Enjoy. It's massive now.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah. he could wrap ss in a bubble that stops him from absorbing ambient energy. he could nullify his own weakness to k-nite entirely.

it's a crazy-uber power that like i said, i still am not comfortable with, but with which he's done some crazy sh!t. 😬

The k-nite thing is correct as he's used it before to heal himself from kryptonite poisoning and even to negate magic.

Then there is the illusions, reality altering, battlefield control, and dominance over others powers.

I would use it to explain one thing away... how glasses make it so that nobody can recognize him. A little T-vo to make his face look different as Clark and a more believable concept comes to fruition.

😂

that might actually be a pretty cool, and harmless retcon. they could say he has been unsing the ability unconsciously all along. hehe. makes some sense. 🙂

The problem with T-Vo, is that it's not used as often as some of the things being written off by Surfer.
Surfer has used his combat speed more than T-Vo, and yet, Surfer's speed isn't admissible in battle, but T-Vo is?

but like the surfer guys want to say he can use combat-style speed, (allowable by forum rules) so too is it allowable for supes to utilize FULLY the abilities of a motherbox.

😬

anyway, i'd wager good cash that avy could come up with more scans of t-vo being used than ss fans could come up with scans showing ss using his speed the way you and i mean, ty.

there are prolly a half-dozen different examples of t-vo being used. off-hand, i can think of exactly 2 scans that MIGHT support combat-style (i.e. -- attacking/dodging in close quarter combat a la superman or spiderman) speed from ss, and one of them is a bit wishy-washy . . .

again, i'm not disallowing his use of speed that way. logically speaking, it seems he SHOULD be able to use it like that. i just find it odd surfer fans scream about it when it is questioned DESPITE the OVERWHELMING dearth of evidence against it. 😬

I know there was a few arcs of Superman where he used it one or more times, and iirc, he used it in an issue of Spectre not in a fight, but was using it to the scan the surroundings or something.
He's even used it or something similar since the Crisis. Although he didn't call it by name- in the OMAC mini-series, he was creating mental projections and duplicates and stuff.

Originally posted by leonidas
now, there is one point i will partially concede (and something i think goob was getting at) -- i wasn't looking at h/p when considering how this fight might go. i simply went looking back at feats performed by a motherbox. a motherbox HAS accomplished all the feats i (and others) have said and more. did supes use all these abilities in h/p? no. but like the surfer guys want to say he can use combat-style speed, (allowable by forum rules) so too is it allowable for supes to utilize FULLY the abilities of a motherbox. so if you (or anyone else) wants to claim supes could not fully USE all these powers, that again is your perogative and one that is hard to counter because he didn't. but for the purposes of a forum battle, i see no reason why he COULDN'T.

Originally posted by leonidas
and . . . just how would ss avoid being taken out by torquasm-vo? 😕

Originally posted by darthgoober
That IS actually what I was getting at. And I actually don't see Surfer using combat speed as being in the same category as Supes using the full abilities of the Motherbox. After all, even you admit that there are a couple of scans that indicate Surfer has significant combat speed/reflexes, but how many are there to suggest that Supes can use the Mother Box to accomplish every feat every preformed by a Mother Box?

Leave the Astral Plane(which he can enter/exit at will), absorb all the psychic energy Supes uses to pull him onto the Astral Plane(which would halt the process), etc.. What's more, there's not even a guarantee that Supes will win via T-Vo if he uses it successfully given Surfer's track record against Mephisto within Mephisto's domain(which he has complete control of, similar to Supes using T-Vo) and on the Astral Plane(which is where they'd be fighting) and against reality warpers.

Surfer winning against Mephisto is a Jobber aura. hasn't mephisto stood up to better than Surfer?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Surfer winning against Mephisto is a Jobber aura. hasn't mephisto stood up to better than Surfer?

Originally posted by darthgoober
That IS actually what I was getting at. And I actually don't see Surfer using combat speed as being in the same category as Supes using the full abilities of the Motherbox. After all, even you admit that there are a couple of scans that indicate Surfer has significant combat speed/reflexes, but how many are there to suggest that Supes can use the Mother Box to accomplish every feat every preformed by a Mother Box?

Originally posted by darthgoober
And Supes winning against Dominus or Blaze with T-Vo isn't?

Originally posted by Juntai
Naturally, the reponse to this will just be, that Superman doesn't need to know how to, because the Motherbox does. The motherbox knows it's own capabilities and will PING PING PING it to him. Certainly more viable than just pretending Supes will do nothing with it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And Supes winning against Dominus or Blaze with T-Vo isn't?

That was the ULTIMATE jobber. Superman Sucks monkey balls.

Originally posted by Juntai
I don't remember him using Tvo on Blaze?
Last time I recall him fighting Blaze was way back in the mid-90s.
I may be forgetting an arc though.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Leave the Astral Plane(which he can enter/exit at will), absorb all the psychic energy Supes uses to pull him onto the Astral Plane(which would halt the process), etc.. What's more, there's not even a guarantee that Supes will win via T-Vo if he uses it successfully given Surfer's track record against Mephisto within Mephisto's domain(which he has complete control of, similar to Supes using T-Vo) and on the Astral Plane(which is where they'd be fighting) and against reality warpers.

Surfer is just going to leave where a multiversal reality warper couldn't..especially when Superman's will is superimposing on Surfers powers?

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Surfer is just going to leave where a multiversal reality warper couldn't..especially when Superman's will is superimposing on Surfers powers?

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not saying that Supes will do nothing with it, I'm asking what he HAS done with it? After all, GL rings are at least semi sentient and can tell inform their users about their abilities or work on their own, but there's a big difference between Green Arrow using a GL ring and Hal Jorden using the same ring. So what has Supes personally accomplished?

Originally posted by Juntai
Not applicable and a bad example. When people make threads with so and so character with the IG or the Ultimate Nullifier or another power-up, we don't pretend they're just useless objects. Why would we do it with one that communicates and does a lot of actions by itself? Unless we want to go into all those IG threads and pretend it's nothing more than a powerless glove some guy is wearing because they have no feats with it, and are unproven.
The Motherbox knows it's own capabilities, and can use them itself, or inform Superman about them and it's 100 percent applicable here.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure why not? Surfer can traverse dimensions(including the Astral Plane) pretty much at will, and it's not as if the Dominus thing is completely legit if he's REALLY a multiversal being.

Not only can Dominus do the same at leagues higher than Surfer can..he can create new ones on a whim from a single stray thought.

I know you want SS to win, but absurdities is not the way to go. SS isn't teleporting out of T-vo.