Hell

Well, many would consider Hell to be a completely illogical concept.

Which is why your argument makes more sense than debbiejo's.

ok then. I wasnt here.

Originally posted by Nellinator
And what would you say Sheol is peejayd?

* it is a "GRAVE", according to Hebrew and Greek manuscripts... 🙂

Originally posted by Alliance
Well, many would consider Hell to be a completely illogical concept.

It was created for two reasons:

1) To inspire fear and control.

2) To satisfy one's personal vengeance.

Hell is only what we beleive it to be. 😉

It makes for wonderful literature though.

Originally posted by peejayd
* it is a "GRAVE", according to Hebrew and Greek manuscripts... 🙂

Originally posted by Alliance
It makes for wonderful literature though.

It does, it does indeed.

Originally posted by Nellinator
My argument is simply this: debbiejo argues that scripturally there is no Hell, only Sheol. She also argues that Sheol is not an undesirable place. She has clearly been shown otherwise on both accounts, but still argues that the Bible does not support the existence of Hell. She is not using logic to support her claims.

Originally posted by debbiejo
But I am using the Hebrew language in the original. This is why Jews don't believe in hell. Because there is no place of torment. And again why didn't Moses mention it? As far as Jesus teaching a place of torment. Why believe he was talking about a future place? Hell could be your life now with its grievances...The weeping and gnashing of teeth are your sorrows here and now if you let it be that way.......There are many ways to interpret verses....

That interpretation would be consistent with Buddhism.

Originally posted by Nellinator
But it is described as a place of torment and is also distinguished from heaven as seperate places of afterlife. Sheol is translated as grave, but its Hebrew meaning is different. The Jewish faith would show it to be some much like the idea of Purgatory (BTW I don't believe in Purgatory as described in Dante's inferno).

* then why not call it, "Sheol"? purgatory is not in the Bible, so it does not exist, Biblically speaking... in the Bible, there is Sheol, but we should call it, "Sheol" and not "purgatory"... 😉

Originally posted by debbiejo
But I am using the Hebrew language in the original. This is why Jews don't believe in hell. Because there is no place of torment. And again why didn't Moses mention it?

* surely you know how near Moses lived from the first couple, Adam and Eve? why on earth will Moses or even God talk about Hell, Judgment Day, Death, Torment, etc., in a very early stage of life of mankind?

Originally posted by debbiejo
As far as Jesus teaching a place of torment. Why believe he was talking about a future place? Hell could be your life now with its grievances...The weeping and gnashing of teeth are your sorrows here and now if you let it be that way.......There are many ways to interpret verses....

* then you obviously do not believe in the Jesus stated in the Bible... my question is: what kind of "jesus" do you believe in?

^^ The real Jesus??? 😑 😛

* surely you know how near Moses lived from the first couple, Adam and Eve? why on earth will Moses or even God talk about Hell, Judgment Day, Death, Torment, etc., in a very early stage of life of mankind?

Originally posted by peejayd
* surely you know how near Moses lived from the first couple, Adam and Eve? why on earth will Moses or even God talk about Hell, Judgment Day, Death, Torment, etc., in a very early stage of life of mankind?

In what sense was Ancient Egypt temporally/spatially near the Garden of Eden and or Adam/Eve? Egypt, with it's three thousand + year history. Theoretically it is believed that if Moses existed and led the Jews out of Egypt it would have been sometime during the New Kingdom - meaning Egypt had already been around and dominant for well over a thousand year (or was it two thousand?) And there was no Garden of Eden known of in Egypt - and it should have known, it has strong connetctions to all the surrounding cultures, as well as those that predated it (Sumerians, also with very long history) - if the Garden did exist, it was long gone by the time Moses popped up.

But anyway - depending on who you believe, "Hell" was about since Satan got himself evicted from Heaven, so by rights Hell would have existed. And since people without God go to Hell, by rights Hell should have been really relevant. I mean, where did all those Egyptians God killed go when they died? And all the others? It is a question I often ask what chance did people have prior to Jesus to escape hell? Seeing as Jesus is the only path to salvation, and there were millions that lived before his time - what happened to them? Usually the response it a kind of nervous: "there were servants of God around before Jesus, so people knew about God..." but apparently not. Why wouldn't Moses talk about Hell? Hell, I'd think it would be fairly important for his people to know if they didn't obey there was a little pit of flame with their name on it waiting. But, apparently not. Hell only becoming relevant much later.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
But anyway - depending on who you believe, "Hell" was about since Satan got himself evicted from Heaven, so by rights Hell would have existed. And since people without God go to Hell, by rights Hell should have been really relevant. I mean, where did all those Egyptians God killed go when they died? And all the others? It is a question I often ask what chance did people have prior to Jesus to escape hell? Seeing as Jesus is the only path to salvation, and there were millions that lived before his time - what happened to them? Usually the response it a kind of nervous: "there were servants of God around before Jesus, so people knew about God..." but apparently not. Why wouldn't Moses talk about Hell? Hell, I'd think it would be fairly important for his people to know if they didn't obey there was a little pit of flame with their name on it waiting. But, apparently not. Hell only becoming relevant much later.

^ hell is in your head. 😛

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
^ hell is in your head. 😛

Originally posted by Nellinator
But maybe its only in my head in your head.

That almost made sense, but I get it.

How do you know that it being in my head, isn't just in your head?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That almost made sense, but I get it.

How do you know that it being in my head, isn't just in your head?

Originally posted by Nellinator
All I will say on this matter is that even in the OT there are two places to go after death. One is heaven the other is Sheol. Heaven is desirable, Sheol is not.
"The cords of death entangled me, the anguish of Sheol came upon me; I was overcome with trouble and sorrow. Then I called on the name of the Lord: 'O Lord save me!' The Lord is gracious and righteous; our God is full of compassion. The Lord protects the simplehearted; when I was in great need, he saved me. Be at rest once more, O my soul, for the Lord has been good to you. For you, O Lord, have delivered my soul from death, my eyes from tears... Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints... you have freed me from my chains." Psalm 116:3-16
Sheol is clearly not a nice place to be, but God can and sometimes does save us from it.

O Lord, have delivered my soul from death,

It's about life and death of a body.

"Because you will not abandon me to Sheol, nor will you let your Holy One see decay. You have made know to me the path of life; you fill me with joy in your presence, with ETERNAL PLEASURE AT YOUR RIGHT HAND" Psalm 16:10

"Heaven is my throne" Isaiah 66:1

This clearly indicates that by being spared from Sheol and being shown the path of l leads to eternal pleasure with God who is in heaven.