Originally posted by Up In Flames
But you do... which is a doubt put forth by Satan
1) Also by God, due to his lack of effort to show himself to me for twenty something years.
2) So according to your statement, Satan is violating my free will by telling me what to think. God allows this, and then God will punish me for beleiving something a demon planted inside my head.
How logical.
Originally posted by NellinatorMetaphorical language which was used during that time period just as it used today to prove a point. Oh, and Jesus used it all he time.
"But God will redeem my life from Sheol" Psalm 49:15
Inferring more than bodily death.
"...who are filled with gladness when they reach the grave" Job 3:22
Again inferring more than physical connotations.
"... let's swallow them alive, like Sheol, and whole, like those that go down to the pit ." Proverbs 1:12
Sheol is not even necessarily physical death.
Then take all the references to God saving them from the grave when God does not spare us from physical death. No it is definitely a spiritual salvation.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
1) Also by God, due to his lack of effort to show himself to me for twenty something years.2) So according to your statement, Satan is violating my free will by telling me what to think. God allows this, and then God will punish me for beleiving something a demon planted inside my head.
How logical.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so if i plant the idea in your head to murder a bus full of nuns, am i guilty or are you guilty? if satan plants an idea in your head, its still up to you to carry it out.
How would you define "planting the idea in my head" ?
Simply by making a suggestion or by manipulating my emotions and rationality ?
Temptation, according to the Bible is not simply Satan suggesting you do something. If that were all, we wouldn't fall victim to it. Temptation is when Satan coerces you, mentally seduces you into doing something "bad".
For Satan to have any ability to seduce you into the "luxury" of evil is not only a violation of our free will, but also an irresponsibility on God's part of keeping us safe.
You cannot truly argue that God gives us free will and leaves everything up to us, if he allows Satan to manipulate us.
Free Will is only valid if NO ONE manipulates us and we get to make decisions ENTIRELY on our own.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen😂 This concept of free will is impossible, there is no way to make decisions without influence from the environment, past and present. Environment includes all individuals perceived at any given time. Your concept of free will described here is is absolutely invalid.
Free Will is only valid if NO ONE manipulates us and we get to make decisions ENTIRELY on our own.
Originally posted by Regret
😂 This concept of free will is impossible, there is no way to make decisions without influence from the environment, past and present. Environment includes all individuals perceived at any given time. Your concept of free will described here is is absolutely invalid.
READ IT AGAIN Regret.
I did not say lacking influence. I said lacking MANIPULATION. It is NOT Free Will if you are constantly manipulated by ONE SIDE.
According to the Bible, Satan is ALWAYS trying to get us to Sin, while God watches...
That is not Free Will if we are constantly being harassed by temptation from Satan. Good or Evil should be our OWN choice, and not a result of a more powerful force's manipulation.
Originally posted by ThePittman
God is to blame, he created us and he already knows what we will do even before we do it so his is the creator of all, the destroyer of all and at the very top. He made the rules and what we have to do to “serve” him so he is to blame; there is no “choice” that we have to make because God is all knowing and all seeing so even before we are born he will know what we will do.
Oh... Your a 5 point Calvinist!! Good for you... I hope your part of the Elect... and God hasn't predestined you to Hell....
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If he still loves me that's great. But if his love comes with the punishment of Hell for disobedience, then it's not a Love that I desire, and I will be better off without it.
Wow... that's a bold statement, but perhaps maybe God sent Jesus... for a sacrfice... to pay for your disobedience. Hell is not something God's love conjured up, however it was because God is Just, he laid down the law... and sometimes there's punishment... surely you can't deny that, we're surrounded by laws with punishment. This is not a new concept, it was at the time obviously. If you stay in the right "Following in faith after Jesus and confessing your sins" than you will avoid the punishment (jail for time on earth, or hell for eternity.
Hell was created because there was a demand for it. God created it only after Satan said "I pretty much don't want to follow God anymore, I'd rather be God" he asked for punishment because he disobeyed God. I'm pretty sure Satan knew there would be a punishment brought out if he didn't defeat God.
God did not create Hell because "He's a loving father, and he wants to discipline His children" NO!!! Discipline happens on earth, it is why people who are drunk get hangoves, it is why people who sleep around get STDs. WAKE UP to the world around you!!! There is war, there is famine, there is hatred because of sin and the desire to do wrong!!! We created a Hell on earth! WE'VE DEMANDED HELL!!! Can you not see this?
Originally posted by LFBC_Gir
Wow... that's a bold statement, but perhaps maybe God sent Jesus... for a sacrfice... to pay for your disobedience. Hell is not something God's love conjured up, however it was because God is Just, he laid down the law... and sometimes there's punishment... surely you can't deny that, we're surrounded by laws with punishment. This is not a new concept, it was at the time obviously. If you stay in the right "Following in faith after Jesus and confessing your sins" than you will avoid the punishment (jail for time on earth, or hell for eternity.Hell was created because there was a demand for it. God created it only after Satan said "I pretty much don't want to follow God anymore, I'd rather be God" he asked for punishment because he disobeyed God. I'm pretty sure Satan knew there would be a punishment brought out if he didn't defeat God.
God did not create Hell because "He's a loving father, and he wants to discipline His children" NO!!! Discipline happens on earth, it is why people who are drunk get hangoves, it is why people who sleep around get STDs. WAKE UP to the world around you!!! There is war, there is famine, there is hatred because of sin and the desire to do wrong!!! We created a Hell on earth! WE'VE DEMANDED HELL!!! Can you not see this?
WE didnt create:
STD's
Famine
Hurricanes
So who did ?-------- Maybe GOD ? 😱
You call giving someone HIV as punishment a discipline ? Wow....see my mom only spanks me when I'm a bad boy. She don't give me a fatal disease though...but your God does huh ? Because he loves me 🙂
Oh yes God is just. He sends us disease, famine, poverty, war, sickness, etc. HOW MERCIFUL THIS GOD IS !
You contradict yourself more and more.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
[b]WE didnt create:STD's
Famine
Hurricanes
So who did ?-------- Maybe GOD ? 😱
You call giving someone HIV as punishment a discipline ? Wow....see my mom only spanks me when I'm a bad boy. She don't give me a fatal disease though...but your God does huh ? Because he loves me 🙂
Oh yes God is just. He sends us disease, famine, poverty, war, sickness, etc. HOW MERCIFUL THIS GOD IS !
You contradict yourself more and more. [/B]
I'm pretty sure our sin was the result of these things. I'm just gonna throw this out there and I KNOW THIS IS TRUE...
I gotta use the Famous Jesus "TRULY, TRULY I SAY TO YOU"
TRULY TRULY I SAY TO YOU, If no one had ever sinned... LIFE WOULD NOT SUCK... THERE WOULD BE NO WAR, NO DISEASES, NO FAMINE, NO NATURAL DISASTERS" 💃
I am not contradicting yourself if you knew my context and really pulled our from my words what I was really saying. Your just throwing the word "contradiction" out there to make me look bad... If I have ever misjudged you than I apologize and take back that statement but when someone needs to belittle someone else in a debate... it's foolishness and I can't debate with children.
Ok, I have no interest in becoming involved in a heated debate that won't truly be settled until we die, so I'll just say my piece and leave it at that.
First off let me say that I am a Christian, though most other Christians would condemn me because my views on many subjects are unorthodox to say the least(for instance, I'm not sure if I agree with the classic view of Hell, because I don't see myself as more merciful/loving/forgiving than God, and there's not a single person that's ever been born that I would consider deserving of eternal burning).
Now that being said, if I HAD to argue for the reason behind the "classic" view of Hell, I would say that it justification behind would be one of choosing between extreme opposites. The polar opposite of the reward for faithful service. It would be justified for the simple reason that a choice was given between the two. Just because someone didn't like the choice wouldn't change the fact that it was there. Whether they agreed about their deserving Hell wouldn't change the fact that they choose that destination(by not seeking the other). Not liking a choice doesn't change the fact that you have one.
But as I said before, I don't fully agree with the ways things are viewed by the majority, and I think that it's all a lot more complicated than it's made out to be(as well as a lot less understood), but that would be my take on it.
Originally posted by ThePittman
No, you missed the point but that doesn’t surprise me at all. What scares me about you and the mentality of your vision is that you can not possibly conceive that you idea or faith could be wrong and not only that but believe it to the letter of the word. This type of fanatical belief leads to horrible acts under the name of God. However most atheist do not believe because we have been shown no proof that it exists, most of use understand that we “could” be wrong but refuse to believe until we have been shown sometime of evidence. Atheists are all about truth and facts.For me personally I would love to know one way or another, it doesn’t make a bit of difference if I was shown to be “wrong” and against my “beliefs”, I would rather know the answer to a question then to make one up.
mmm OK...haven't you seen the way nature works...simple as how you were conceived... I mean of a spermatozoon and an ovum united you got to be what you are now... imagine how wonderful and infinite is all knowledge (scientific and proven). For example how a plant is born... how each alive being in this planet gets to be what it is... it is not that I watch too much discovery channel... but if you put yourself to analyze and to think... you come to the conclusion >>> and ask yourself >>>Who could have done or handled all these situations???... and it is obvious that your conclusion is that: had to be somebody who's huge,, with an infinite power to have done it & keep on doing it,,, it does not matter if you believe or not in Jesus Christ or the bible or religion etc...it is obvious that behind all this creations on this planet in which we live is somebody who is mega powerful, one that knows how everything works and how to handle it either or another way...you've got to agree in it some way!!!
If a person does not understand with a simple detention then there must be a double detention, and if still does not gets it then there's thousands of detentions and then JAIL.
I think it's just to keep an order & to have control, meaning PEACE & HARMONY, or in order to have it.
Some people just know that is not right to steal(example)... but some other even though they are warned...keep on disobeying and want to go the other way...so there must be a stop and if the only way its imposing fear on them then that is the radical way it has/needs to be done. Besides some of the biblical texts were written by the church in order to purposely do that: IMPOSE FEAR AMONG SOCIETY so they did not lose control over their domains (political matter).
oh dear!!!... yeah blame everything on a GOD who you don't believe in !!!
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
[b]WE didnt create:STD's
Famine
Hurricanes
So who did ?-------- Maybe GOD ? 😱
You call giving someone HIV as punishment a discipline ? Wow....see my mom only spanks me when I'm a bad boy. She don't give me a fatal disease though...but your God does huh ? Because he loves me 🙂
Oh yes God is just. He sends us disease, famine, poverty, war, sickness, etc. HOW MERCIFUL THIS GOD IS !
You contradict yourself more and more. [/B]
Haven't you think for a moment that for a fact in every situation every action has it or it's consequences>>>
If you have intercourse with lots of different people,chances are you get STD's
If you know and have the possibilities to do something about famine, poverty, war, why don't we all do it...I mean we waste money on thousands sometimes unnecessary stuff...
lookaround If you get informed, you should know about global warming...what and who is provoking it, what does it provokes and how we can prevent it...
I mean you are leaving everything to GOD... it is a relationship we should have here,,, and every relationship is made of two and must be corresponding ( one on one). That thought of you is just selfishness!!! no2 And I'm not sorry to say that because it is the truth.
Originally posted by LFBC_Gir
I'm pretty sure our sin was the result of these things. I'm just gonna throw this out there and I KNOW THIS IS TRUE...
I gotta use the Famous Jesus "TRULY, TRULY I SAY TO YOU"TRULY TRULY I SAY TO YOU, If no one had ever sinned... LIFE WOULD NOT SUCK... THERE WOULD BE NO WAR, NO DISEASES, NO FAMINE, NO NATURAL DISASTERS" 💃
I am not contradicting yourself if you knew my context and really pulled our from my words what I was really saying. Your just throwing the word "contradiction" out there to make me look bad... If I have ever misjudged you than I apologize and take back that statement but when someone needs to belittle someone else in a debate... it's foolishness and I can't debate with children.
I agree that if we were all moral people, then there would be no wars or conflict between us.
However, there would still be natural disasters, disease, and famine, because those things are beyond our human control.
Earth's natural disasters have a scientific explanation, and there is no evidense what-so-ever that your God has anything to do with it. So you are basically shooting empty blanks calling things such as Hurricane Katrina, and San Franciso's Earthquakes a "result of our sin".
That is total bullshit. These are random events that occur because of the physical structure of our world. These things happen all over our universe, the sun releases energy and pressure the same way our Earth does, the same way all stars do.
You really aren't displaying much knowledge in your posts, as all you are pressing is mythology and not empirical or scientific fact of ANY kind.... ❌
Let us just say for ARGUMENTS SAKE that your God and mythology DOES EXIST.....then by that logic, natural disasters, famine, disease, etc. are HIS CREATIONS because they are "punishment for our sins".
We as human beings, in both scientific/factual scenario, and religious/mythological scenario, LACK the ability to create things such as earthquakes, hurricanes, floods, most disease, etc.
* i tend to believe, mr.urizen, that this is all a big misunderstanding about different interpretations of several religious denominations on earth...
* these examples:
1) They don't obey you
2) They don't beleive everything you say
3) They are Gay
4) They hit another kid
5) They cursed at you...whatever the case..... are NOT reasons enough for any person to be casted to hell...
* these examples you believe to be somewhat grave enough, are not Biblically sound... God will NOT send anyone just because of these shallow examples, my friend...
* hell is for the evil... and people who repent and ask for God's forgiveness will attain forgiveness... God will NOT send good people to hell, that's for sure... 😉