Super Buu vs Thanos

Originally posted by Soljer
You're basing all this off of calculations and a GAME. We have no evidence that physical strength increases at a linear rate with power level, and we also have no real evidence of the 'multiplier' that Super Saiya-jin delivers.

Also, the weights in his base form were TWO tons.

They were increased to fourty, and Goku couldn't move in his base form. He HAD to go to Super Saiya-jin. And that's two tons - total. Not two tons per limb....

And as far as the circling the earth thing, I believe they did it five times in twenty nine minutes.

The 'nap' part was an overconfident joke on Gotenks' part - you can see him JUST arrive from circling the earth when he tells piccolo "You just got here? Cmon!"

Can't light circle the earth like seven times per second?

Five times, twenty nine minutes....

Seven times, one second....

Hmm.

King Kai states 2 tons each... so ok its 8 tons...

and I know what I was basing it off, I said, I did also say (at least I think I did and if didn't I meant to that I'm speculating trying to get something to compare Buu to with comic characters) So you don't need to have a go at me I was only trying to make a rough comparison so we could actually debate about something instead of well very inconsistent feats.

As for the Gotenks thing there was a small panel indicating that some time had passed after he landed, could have been 10 mins could have been 30 secs, I know I'm speculating again but this is the fastest travel in DBZ there is, so I know its not light speed but it at least proves that at their best they are what on quicksilvers level?

Originally posted by Sparkz
King Kai states 2 tons each... so ok its 8 tons...

and I know what I was basing it off, I said, I did also say (at least I think I did and if didn't I meant to that I'm speculating trying to get something to compare Buu to with comic characters) So you don't need to have a go at me I was only trying to make a rough comparison so we could actually debate about something instead of well very inconsistent feats.

As for the Gotenks thing there was a small panel indicating that some time had passed after he landed, could have been 10 mins could have been 30 secs, I know I'm speculating again but this is the fastest travel in DBZ there is, so I know its not light speed but it at least proves that at their best they are what on quicksilvers level?

He doesn't say two tons each...The coversation goes as follows;

West Kaiou: HOw much weight is he holding?

King Kai: Oh, not that much, only about two tons.

West Kaiou: EH?! Two Tons?!

<<omit bullshit about west Kaiou's competitor>>

King Kai: Gokou! Want something heavier?

Gokou: What? Oh, okay, how much more?

King Kai: How about....ten tons?

West Kai: Ten...ten tons...!!! You've gotta be kidding!

Gokou: Ten tons? No way! That's too much - it's impossible!

West Kai: Haha...that's right, It's not possible. North Kaiou can be such a joker at times.

King Kai: You can turn into a Super Saiya-jn.

Gokou: Really? That's no problem then.

West Kaiou: What?

King Kai: Hey...Go ahead and change it to ten tons.

West Kaiou: Okay, I'll make it ten tons. Heck, I'll make it fourty tons - I'm not joking, either.

King Kai: Just do it.

West Kaiou: I'm not responsible for any injuries. There!

*changes*

Gokou: Ooh!

Goku is weighed down, cannot move. He changed to a Super Saiya-jin and begins shadow boxing.

Gokou: This is a piece of cake!

No where does it say two tons each.

And I wasn't having a go at you, I'm just saying - you can't use evidence from a friggin video game and mathematics that we don't even know are accurate!

Further, with Gotenks, one panel shows him circling the earth five times, the next panel shows him skidding to a stop, as picollo arrives. There is no 'break' panel.

Originally posted by Soljer
He doesn't say two tons each...The coversation goes as follows;

West Kaiou: HOw much weight is he holding?

King Kai: Oh, not that much, only about two tons.

West Kaiou: EH?! Two Tons?!

<<omit bullshit about west Kaiou's competitor>>

King Kai: Gokou! Want something heavier?

Gokou: What? Oh, okay, how much more?

King Kai: How about....ten tons?

West Kai: Ten...ten tons...!!! You've gotta be kidding!

Gokou: Ten tons? No way! That's too much - it's impossible!

West Kai: Haha...that's right, It's not possible. North Kaiou can be such a joker at times.

King Kai: You can turn into a Super Saiya-jn.

Gokou: Really? That's no problem then.

West Kaiou: What?

King Kai: Hey...Go ahead and change it to ten tons.

West Kaiou: Okay, I'll make it ten tons. Heck, I'll make it fourty tons - I'm not joking, either.

King Kai: Just do it.

West Kaiou: I'm not responsible for any injuries. There!

*changes*

Gokou: Ooh!

Goku is weighed down, cannot move. He changed to a Super Saiya-jin and begins shadow boxing.

Gokou: This is a piece of cake!

No where does it say two tons each.

And I wasn't having a go at you, I'm just saying - you can't use evidence from a friggin video game and mathematics that we don't even know are accurate!

Further, with Gotenks, one panel shows him circling the earth five times, the next panel shows him skidding to a stop, as picollo arrives. There is no 'break' panel.

I must have a different dub mine goes like this:

south "I didn't know people still trained that way"

North " "well lord of southern worlds"

south "so thats son goku one of the top fighters of the north, heh heh how heavy are those weights?"

North "oh not much only 2 tons each"

South " Tuh! Two tons!"

North "ho ho suprised?"

South "Hardly in the southern planets theres a mighty fighter named papoye! he'll eat this guy for breakfast"

North "really? you know goku's going to a tournament on a northan planet called earth why dont you enter your great papoye too?"

south "all right i will your pipsqueak will never know what hit him"

north "hey goku want to go heavier?"

Goku "sure how much?"

north "wellll how about ten tons?"

south "10!! no way!"

Goku " 1o tons? dont you think thats abit much i wont be able to move"

South "ha i knew it you still love your stupid jokes"

North "i'll let you go super saiyan"

Goku "oh in that case fine"

South "huh"

North "go ahead run them up to 10"

South "10 tons each? thats 40 tons you'd better be sure about this"

North "just do it"

South "dont blame me if you break something, there!"

Goku goes super saiyan "this is easy"

And there is a break panel or maybe its a line but the same pic...looks like a seperate panel to me but hard to tell, any way we still dnt know how long it took him.

And yeah maybe I can't use that as evidence but we still can't compare DBz and comics really without some sort of common ground

Not each 40 tons amazes them.
Each 160 tons amazes them.

Either case pretty low number.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Because it's not an important post. It doesn't matter if he worked on the "filler" or not. It happened in the anime so is canon to the anime.

Such as? As was pointed out, most marvel street levelers can "move too fast for the human eye" thus rendering them invisible in the same bursts that DBZ chracters have shown. Their flying /running away speeds weren't enough to give Babidi windburn, or even have him lose his grip. And we know that he relies on magics and mind control no physical cpabilities of his own.

So What does that leave? a few characters have IT but that really is a teleportation ability, not actual travel.

Simple

Early on in DBZ (the exact instance is uneccessairy)
Goku was moving so fast that though his attackers were trying to strike him, over and over, he appeared motionless -- they were passing through him as if here were a ghost. Not through perpsective (such as in a black hole), but raw speed.

An object moving this fast stems into the realm of Warp Mechanics, which if im not mistaken is a pseudoscience in nature. Obviously, goku has never shown the ability to travel at this speed, but has clearly displayed the ability to do so in combat, or rather over short distances. And by that speed, i mean an incredibly fast one; i dont want you to think im sayan goku fights at warp speed. Ive never seen cyclops, Gambit, spiderman, Venom, captain america etc replicate such a feat. Spiderman doesnt move great distances in such a way, no one is able to detect his movements -- nither does he slam his enemy a half a mile away only to be standing behind them WELL before they lose there momentum, and ide say hes pretty top tier when it comes to combat speed. To coorelate the speed of heros on marvel earth to that of a Z warrior, with a complete understanding of the way they fight is absurd in itself.

Where the hell does one hundred and sixty each come from?!

Anywho - Regardless of the difference between the two or eight tons(not a huge difference), it's fourty (total) after Super Saiya-jin, which would be been IMPOSSIBLE for Goku before changing.

And, as far as common ground goes, that's CERTAINLY not going to be found in a video game that's completely non-canon for both companies....

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Simple

Early on in DBZ (the exact instance is uneccessairy)

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Goku was moving so fast that though his attackers were trying to strike him, over and over, he appeared motionless -- they were passing through him as if here were a ghost. Not through perpsective (such as in a black hole), but raw speed.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
An object moving this fast stems into the realm of Warp Mechanics,

No warp mechanics needed. 🙄

rest of the post dsiscarded because it was founded on an invalid premise.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Simple

Early on in DBZ (the exact instance is uneccessairy)
Goku was moving so fast that though his attackers were trying to strike him, over and over, he appeared motionless -- they were passing through him as if here were a ghost. Not through perpsective (such as in a black hole), but raw speed.

An object moving this fast stems into the realm of Warp Mechanics, which if im not mistaken is a pseudoscience in nature. Obviously, goku has never shown the ability to [b]travel at this speed, but has clearly displayed the ability to do so in combat, or rather over short distances. And by that speed, i mean an incredibly fast one; i dont want you to think im sayan goku fights at warp speed. Ive never seen cyclops, Gambit, spiderman, Venom, captain america etc replicate such a feat. Spiderman doesnt move great distances in such a way, no one is able to detect his movements -- nither does he slam his enemy a half a mile away only to be standing behind them WELL before they lose there momentum, and ide say hes pretty top tier when it comes to combat speed. To coorelate the speed of heros on marvel earth to that of a Z warrior, with a complete understanding of the way they fight is absurd in itself. [/B]

Captain America/Spiderman/Whoever SIDE STEP attacks without their opponent noticing. Just because they don't move back to the exact same spot doesn't mean they couldn't - if their opponent would retract his arm fast enough.

Furthermore, I've seen Quicksilver himself pull of the EXACT same trick.

Meaning there is still no evidence, in combat or out, of movement that greatly surpasses quicksilver - much less approaches C.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Oh god, extrapolation and thus conjecture in which case nothing concretely proven alert...

Of him moving faster than their eyes could see...

No it doesn't, and I really should just cut off your post right here. As it was shown all that would be happening is him moving out of the way of the punch and then back into position before their brains could register he moved.

No warp mechanics needed. 🙄

rest of the post dsiscarded because it was founded on an invalid premise.

Allright, ill continue then

You are correct, they do need to be moving faster than the eye can track (and these are warriors whos eyes transcend that of a human, yet they still could not comperehnd it)

Motion perception must ultimately fail for the onlooker, yes, but pattern recognition must succeed. That a sequence of very rapidly translating images can provide the perception of a stable, motionless object is the product of extremely rapid movement. Not a blurred movement or fuzzy movement (which is too, another phenomena) But Complete Motion standstill, a clear image as depicted in the event. Again, im not sure which combatnant on marvel earth can replicate that.

I think you guys are going to extreme lengths to belittle Goku. He's clearly depicted as being in the class of Superman and other heavyweights, and he's clearly exponentially faster than Spiderman. I know it's against the Comic Code to admit it, but come on now.

I'd also so like to point out that the Z warriors don't use their eyes to track people in battle they sense their chi, Piccolo and Vegerot both explain this...

Originally posted by Soljer
Captain America/Spiderman/Whoever SIDE STEP attacks without their opponent noticing. Just because they don't move back to the exact same spot doesn't mean they couldn't - if their opponent would retract his arm fast enough.

Furthermore, I've seen Quicksilver himself pull of the EXACT same trick.

Meaning there is still no evidence, in combat or out, of movement that greatly surpasses quicksilver - much less approaches C.

They do, without their opponent noticeing. But does thier opponents fist go right through a still object, like a ghost? I dont think spiderman has done it in his 400 year history. Same for cap.

As for quicksilver? Im not denying hes done it, infact im sure he has. But that only supports what i am getting at, Quicksilver had to be moving very fast to do so -- as is goku.

You guys are are makeing goku sound like Iron man, and its truely baffeling. I can honestly say, i now know what Nvr felt like when people were seriously underratieng half of the DC roster

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Allright, ill continue then

You are correct, they do need to be moving faster than the eye can track (and these are warriors whos eyes transcend that of a human, yet they still could not comperehnd it)

Motion perception must ultimately fail for the onlooker, yes, but pattern recognition must succeed. That a sequence of very rapidly translating images can provide the perception of a stable, motionless object is the product of extremely rapid movement. Not a blurred movement or fuzzy movement (which is too, another phenomena) But Complete Motion standstill, a clear image as depicted in the event. Again, im not sure which combatnant on marvel earth can replicate that.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Wolverine, Quicksilver, Spiderman... People not that high in level.

Add superman to that list.

Would you cooeralte him to anyone you just listed?

Not only that, wolverine, and spiderman have never evaded hundreds of jabs while appearing Absolutely still. Never.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I think you guys are going to extreme lengths to belittle Goku. He's clearly depicted as being in the class of Superman and other heavyweights, and he's clearly exponentially faster than Spiderman. I know it's against the Comic Code to admit it, but come on now.

I'm not, I'm just trying to do the same for him as we do for every other comic character - go by feats. NOT by conjecture or hyperbole.

Are his chi blasts High Herald (Superman) level?

Certainly.

Is his speed, or his strength? Most definitely not.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
They do, without their opponent noticeing. But does thier opponents fist go right through a still object, like a ghost? I dont think spiderman has done it in his 400 year history. Same for cap.

As for quicksilver? Im not denying hes done it, infact im sure he has. But that only supports what i am getting at, Quicksilver had to be moving [b]very fast to do so -- as is goku.

You guys are are makeing goku sound like Iron man, and its truely baffeling. I can honestly say, i now know what Nvr felt like when people were seriously underratieng half of the DC roster [/B]

Spiderman can only not do the 'return to original place' part because his opponent will not retract his arm quickly enough after the punch.

If his opponent did so, returning to the original location before his opponent could register the movement would be child's play.

I'm NOT saying Goku is Spiderman level, I'm saying the "OMG AMAZERING FEATZZ!" that you brought up isn't so OMG AMAZERING!

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Add superman to that list.

Would you cooeralte him to anyone you just listed?

Not only that, wolverine, and spiderman have never evaded hundreds of jabs while appearing Absolutely still. Never.

Hmm... I'm not so sure about that.

How many lifting feats does Thanos or Darkseid have compared to Superman? And how many fights have Spiderman or Quicksilver been involved in when witnesses couldn't see any points of the combat.

I'm not exactly a rookie guys...

Goku's speed is at the least in multiples of Mach considering on the effects he's depicted having on the landscape.

Originally posted by Soljer
I'm NOT saying Goku is Spiderman level, I'm saying the "OMG AMAZERING FEATZZ!" that you brought up isn't so OMG AMAZERING!

Originally posted by Soljer
I'm not, I'm just trying to do the same for him as we do for every other comic character - go by feats. NOT by conjecture or hyperbole.

Are his chi blasts High Herald (Superman) level?

Certainly.

Is his speed, or his strength? Most definitely not.

Spiderman can only not do the 'return to original place' part because his opponent will not retract his arm quickly enough after the punch.

If his opponent did so, returning to the original location before his opponent could register the movement would be child's play.

I'm NOT saying Goku is Spiderman level, I'm saying the "OMG AMAZERING FEATZZ!" that you brought up isn't so OMG AMAZERING!

Which essentially finalizes my point. Spiderman is not quick enough to replicate what goku did, but it is clear that goku is so fast, his oppoment was unable to register a fluid motion and instead saw an inanimate object. A failure of preception, and a success of motion. Goku's speed eclipses everyone on marvel earth, save the few high level beings, and perhaps quicksilver at one time. And this is strictly speed.

On the other hand, its a great feat. It was great when superman
did it, and its great when goku did it.

Im glad we cleared this up

Originally posted by illadelph12
Hmm... I'm not so sure about that.

How many lifting feats does Thanos or Darkseid have compared to Superman?

If the Z fighters themselves aren't all that strong then the shots they take from each other, or put them down, wouldn't be that heavy.

Thanos at one point in time was taking shots from class 100ers and backhanded them easily. Showing that Thanos's durability would be high enough to take the less strong hits from the DBZ characters.