Sephiroth vs. Shin Akuma

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Well, I never said that Cloud and friends didn't have superhuman endurance, only that it was possible to kill them with bullets or swords. You have officially made me shit myself. You are actually saying that Supernova not only has Solar System destroying power, but it actually MAKES the Solar System it destroys! This only helps the illusion theory. As far as DBZ goes, it's true Frieza's Death Beam cannot destroy a planet, and Vegeta at that time could, but thing is the Death Beam tho small has more powerful energy than what is needed to destroy a planet, the way beams in DBZ work is they are compacted down into smaller forms to be able to kill or injure people who can survive planet destroying attacks. In RPGs like FF when you are in a fight, the people take turns hitting eachother. Are you gonna tell me that's real too? I have theories of how mass destruction attacks work, they are highly exaggerated in gameplay, Cloud and friends when faced with an attack of such power dodge the lethality of the move, but still take damage from debries or a small part of the explosion. Also, Supernova is either an exaggeration, an illusion, or it never happened in canon.

Edit: And as far as "summons" go in FFVII, they for some reason just appear, do one attack, then leave. Yet in AC Bahamut stayed til it was defeated. So, maybe how summons work in gameplay is that they just show the summon doing an attack, and the opponents are actually fighting the summon, and the damage done is representative of what was done before it was killed.

Can you give me an example of Cloud being fatally wounded by a regular sword or gun? (Means you can't use the Sephiroths masamune, or a materia charged gun of any sort as an example.)

No i'm not saying it creates a solar system and destroys it(dunno where you got that from..)
What i pointed out is that summons are infact CANNON (AC bahamut proves that) yes during gameplay it shows the unrealistic things it attacking and leaving or whatever, and grounds surfaces reappearing without damage, etc, because the gameplay designers don't have the time and effort to create realistic cutscenes for every single battle in the game, which is why its like that for EVERY game, but the attack shows the damage the summon is able to do.

If anything, the summons are even more impressive when shown during a cutscene then in gameplay, i'd love to see how they would've made supernova during a cutscene.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Can you give me an example of Cloud being fatally wounded by a [b]regular sword or gun? (Means you can't use the Sephiroths masamune, or a materia charged gun of any sort as an example.)

No i'm not saying it creates a solar system and destroys it(dunno where you got that from..)
What i pointed out is that summons are infact CANNON (AC bahamut proves that) yes during gameplay it shows the unrealistic things it attacking and leaving or whatever, and grounds surfaces reappearing without damage, etc, because the gameplay designers don't have the time and effort to create realistic cutscenes for every single battle in the game, which is why its like that for EVERY game, but the attack shows the damage the summon is able to do.

If anything, the summons are even more impressive when shown during a cutscene then in gameplay, i'd love to see how they would've made supernova during a cutscene. [/B]

Don't you get that he is too stubborn to stop arguing?

Don't call people stubborn when they don't agree with others if there's no actual proof on either side and/or if they don't want to.

Don't tell me what to call people.

I can say whatever the **** I want.

I wasn't telling you what to call people.

131 weep

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Don't tell me what to call people.

I can say whatever the **** I want.

Me too.
****ing on a ***** during **** day in **** year, **** yeah, so **** yeah!
****in'!

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Well, I can't give you an example of Cloud being fatally wounded(cause if he was he'd be dead), but I can give you examples of Loz, another superhuman being, being wounded by Tifa's fists, or Seph being stabbed straight thru by Cloud in Nibelheim with the Buster Sword, and then thrown down a giant hole after Seoh stabbed him, this shows Seph can be cut by swords, and there is nothing that says Buster Sword at that time was nothing more than a normal big ass sword. Supernova is not a summon, so I have no idea why you refer to it as one. The Sin Bahamut in AC was a completely different summon than any other Bahamut, so it really proves nothing. Also, think about this, in FFVII summons just appear, do an attack, and leave, but in AC Sin Bahamut stays fighting the party til defeated. Why is it that summons in FFVII and AC are so different? Read my Edit on my last post for my answer. Many summons are actually optional and their canonicity is not known. Supernova is not a summon, and it's either an illusion, HIGHLY exaggerated, or it's not canon.

Actually Loz just got right back up and KO'd her.

Since when were there illusion attacks in Final Fantasy VII? Is there any other characters in that game who uses an "illusion" attack?

Let me explain to you how FFVII battling gameplay is, there are 3 types of attacks(besides limit breaks) Regular attack, Magic, and Summons,

When you use Attack, You just charge at the opponent and hit them, same thing as the enemy when they regular attack on you.

When you use Magic, The name of the spell appears at the top, and a quick magic attack launches at the enemy, same thing as when an enemy does an attack on you.

When you use Summon, The name of the summon appears overhead like magic; however, the character who uses the summon, fades out, and a little cutscene happens, and at the end the all of the opponent gets attacked.

Now which category does Supernova fall into? When Sephiroth does Supernova, the name appears overhead "Supernova", Sephiroth then fades out and a cutscene happens, and at the end your whole party gets attacked, i think common sense tells us that is a summon.

Now of course alot of gameplay things are unrealistic, so stop trying to compare it with reality, that is like the 15th time i've said it, of course some small creatures cannot survive a bahamut blast, but they do anyway, but AC proves that summon is cannon, the reason why it seems different in AC is because its not during gameplay, so the designers make it much more realistic.

Yes bahamut flies around around and does things during AC, but thats because its not during gameplay, yet the summon still exists and is not an illusion.

Here's another example:
FFIX Bahamut summoned during gameplay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD_ZQ1PpDEA

Now, FFXI Bahamut summoned during a cutscene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdYMtPf1NY4

Final Fantasy IX, Bahamut is just a regular summon; however, when they used him during a cutscene, he seems more realistic, not just using a single attack, but flying around the town destroying things much like FFVII AC.

So heres my point, YES Supernova IS a summon, YES it is unrealistic, YES Cloud and party can survive it if strong enough (just like little creatures can survive big bahamut blasts), if bahamut was used during a cutscene, i doubt that little creature can survive a bahamut blast, and i doubt clouds party can survive supernova, they would probably try to stop it before it's summoned, and NO it's not an illusion.

Ok WE ****ING KNOW SUMMONS EXIST.

HOWEVER THAT DOES NOT PROVE THAT SUPER NOVA WILL BE BUSTING SOLAR SYSTEMS.

GOD ****ING DAMN IT.

*Leaves this shithole of a forum for a while.*

Jesus Christ can we all just shut up about whether or not Supernova is an illusion?

I'll put this in big bold letters..

THERE'S NO ACTUAL PROOF WHETHER OR NOT SUPERNOVA IS AN ILLUSION. Whether or not it is is just speculation that can be backed up with points; there's no actual evidence. Trust me only Nomura, the creator of the game would know this unless there's an official source describing what the Supernova actually is.

And like it even matters. Sephiroth wins with or without the friggin attack.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Ok WE ****ING KNOW SUMMONS EXIST.

HOWEVER THAT DOES NOT PROVE THAT SUPER NOVA WILL BE BUSTING SOLAR SYSTEMS.

GOD ****ING DAMN IT.

*Leaves this shithole of a forum for a while.*

Watch the summon, and itll show what supernova is capable of. Your not understanding, every summon is capable of doing what is shown in the summon, if anything the summons are even MORE impressive outside of gameplay, not the opposite.

THERE'S NO ACTUAL PROOF WHETHER OR NOT SUPERNOVA IS AN ILLUSION. Whether or not it is is just speculation that can be backed up with points; there's no actual evidence. Trust me only Nomura, the creator of the game would know this unless there's an official source describing what the Supernova actually is.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
Jesus Christ can we all just shut up about whether or not Supernova is an illusion?

I'll put this in big bold letters..

THERE'S NO ACTUAL PROOF WHETHER OR NOT SUPERNOVA IS AN ILLUSION. Whether or not it is is just speculation that can be backed up with points; there's no actual evidence. Trust me only Nomura, the creator of the game would know this unless there's an official source describing what the Supernova actually is.

And like it even matters. Sephiroth wins with or without the friggin attack.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear

[b]THERE'S NO ACTUAL PROOF WHETHER OR NOT SUPERNOVA IS AN ILLUSION. [/B]

When you use Attack, You just charge at the opponent and hit them, same thing as the enemy when they regular attack on you.

When you use Magic, The name of the spell appears at the top, and a quick magic attack launches at the enemy, same thing as when an enemy does an attack on you.

When you use Summon, The name of the summon appears overhead like magic; however, the character who uses the summon, fades out, and a little cutscene happens, and at the end the all of the opponent gets attacked.

Now which category does Supernova fall into? When Sephiroth does Supernova, the name appears overhead "Supernova", Sephiroth then fades out and a cutscene happens, and at the end your whole party gets attacked, i think common sense tells us that is a summon.

Now Supernova as some kind of "illusion" attack is preposterous and far-fetched, because first of all there have not been any illusion attacks in the whole game, and i have already disproven all your reasons on it.

I agree with you, and all my reasons were supporting that it wasn't an illusion. I think you have me mistaken with V2D.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Actually Loz just got right back up and KO'd her.

Since when were there illusion attacks in Final Fantasy VII? Is there any other characters in that game who uses an "illusion" attack?

Let me explain to you how FFVII battling gameplay is, there are 3 types of attacks(besides limit breaks) Regular attack, Magic, and Summons,

When you use [b]Attack, You just charge at the opponent and hit them, same thing as the enemy when they regular attack on you.

When you use Magic, The name of the spell appears at the top, and a quick magic attack launches at the enemy, same thing as when an enemy does an attack on you.

When you use Summon, The name of the summon appears overhead like magic; however, the character who uses the summon, fades out, and a little cutscene happens, and at the end the all of the opponent gets attacked.

Now which category does Supernova fall into? When Sephiroth does Supernova, the name appears overhead "Supernova", Sephiroth then fades out and a cutscene happens, and at the end your whole party gets attacked, i think common sense tells us that is a summon.

Now of course alot of gameplay things are unrealistic, so stop trying to compare it with reality, that is like the 15th time i've said it, of course some small creatures cannot survive a bahamut blast, but they do anyway, but AC proves that summon is cannon, the reason why it seems different in AC is because its not during gameplay, so the designers make it much more realistic.

Yes bahamut flies around around and does things during AC, but thats because its not during gameplay, yet the summon still exists and is not an illusion.

Here's another example:
FFIX Bahamut summoned during gameplay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD_ZQ1PpDEA

Now, FFXI Bahamut summoned during a cutscene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdYMtPf1NY4

Final Fantasy IX, Bahamut is just a regular summon; however, when they used him during a cutscene, he seems more realistic, not just using a single attack, but flying around the town destroying things much like FFVII AC.

So heres my point, YES Supernova IS a summon, YES it is unrealistic, YES Cloud and party can survive it if strong enough (just like little creatures can survive big bahamut blasts), if bahamut was used during a cutscene, i doubt that little creature can survive a bahamut blast, and i doubt clouds party can survive supernova, they would probably try to stop it before it's summoned, and NO it's not an illusion. [/B]

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
I know Loz beat her, only that her punches were hurting her. And what about Seph being run through by Cloud at Nibelheim? Why is it you avoid questions that would hurt your argument and only answer ones you can? I never said all their were illusion attacks genius, the only attack I said may of been an illusion is Supernova. I know how FFVII gameplay works, don't talk to me like I'm friggin 5. Summons also summon a creature to do an attack, something Supernova does not and Bosses and enemies aren't limited to the same move types players are. More evidence to Supernova being an illusion is that the background appears to be all heavenyly and crap, when it's really just the inside of a cavern, and don't say Seph warped them there, cause if he did, why is it right after the fight they are back in the cavern? Next thing you know you'll be telling me that the characters in the game really level up.

I'm not avoiding your question, its just ive been explaining for the last 800 times that cutscenes r more realistic then gameplays, id figure ur brain can answer ur own question.

The Black Materia SUMMONS meteor does it not? Is Meteor a creature?

Just because the background is heavenly doesn't mean all his attacks are illusions, ur really getting carried away with trying to create a "supernova = illusion theory"

Well if you say leveling up is getting stronger, then yes characters really level up/get stronger.

To be honest, you're just being stubborn, if you have read everything i have said, it is alot more then enough to make anyone realize that supernova really is a summon, you are either a) too stubborn to admit defeat or b)hate sephiroth's supernova so much you can't stand it being real.

Originally posted by Terryc250
I'm not avoiding your question, its just ive been explaining for the last 800 times that cutscenes r more realistic then gameplays, id figure ur brain can answer ur own question.

The Black Materia SUMMONS meteor does it not? Is Meteor a creature?

Just because the background is heavenly doesn't mean all his attacks are illusions, ur really getting carried away with trying to create a "supernova = illusion theory"

Well if you say leveling up is getting stronger, then yes characters really level up/get stronger.

To be honest, you're just being stubborn, if you have read everything i have said, it is alot more then enough to make anyone realize that supernova really is a summon, you are either a) too stubborn to admit defeat or b)hate sephiroth's supernova so much you can't stand it being real.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
What I have been trying to explain is that you can't trust everything you friggin see in gameplay, especially when it contradicts a more canon source, like a cutscene. If we go by gameplay the friggin characters take turns hitting eachother and when dodging a move their body just slides a few inches to the side. Black Materia is a unique kind of materia, as is holy, and like I told you enemies are not as restricted move-wise as the player. Also, Black Materia is never shown in gameplay, we were talking about the gameplay attacks the player can do, so there was no point in bringing up Black Materia. When I mentioned the background it was to show that Safer Seph does have some kind of illusionary powers, which means Supernova may also be one. My main reason for saying Supernova is either A)An illusion, B) HIGHLY exaggerrated, or C)Not canon at all. Leveling up is definately a gameplay mechanic to just make the game more fun and challenging, I won't even argue for this since the answer is so obvious. My reason for saying Supernova is an illusion is that less has been shown to be able to kill or injure Cloud and friends, and don't bring up that "Seph can do it but he probably couldn't cause they stopped him" crap. Summons and spells can be done instantly and if they would be able to stop him, he would fly far over their heads where they could not reach him and do it.

I swear you dont even read my posts but you just skim through it or something.

Black Materia summons Meteor, hence its a summon materia, say whatever u want about it but it's still a summon materia as is holy, so this proves that summons r not just for summoning creatures.

A)An illusion, B) HIGHLY exaggerrated, or C)Not canon at all.

My reason for saying Supernova is an illusion is that less has been shown to be able to kill or injure Cloud and friend

faint

Originally posted by Terryc250

Supernova IS a summon, and the few people or should i say Violent2Dope who have tried to make a theory of supernova being an illusion have made points that are INVALID, and disproven by me.

If his supernova attack(as in the comet flying) can destroy a planet 20 times the size of earth within seconds(jupiter) why the fcuking hell would he even need to use the black materia in the first place to summon the meteor which takes a hell long time to even reach the planet? Yet the meteor being so small?

Common sense and logic really elude some people.

And its ironic if its an actual attack, how does he destroy the solar system the same way twice? How does he destroy the same planet twice after it getting destroyed for the first time?

And please dont act as if what you say is 100% true because you have yet to form a cogent arguement of why it is an actual attack. All you are giving is more and more speculation