Mixed Genre & Comic Tier Reference Guide

Originally posted by Creshosk
If he were to accept the facts as given he'd have to merge alot that he's separated out simply to have goku be the best. Some pweople separate out "combat speed" from other movement speeds, such as bullet catching and even Superman's speed reading.

This is not allowed because then he'd have to accept that maybe, just maybe, goku isn't as powerful as he thinks.

Because Goku revolves around fighting and as he said that's all goku has, and he has to be the best.

for me, combat speed is reflexes and the speed you can move your limbs at to perform complex tasks, all of which superman has in spades.

Originally posted by carver9
I'll post them later, I'm about to head to work.

I know how strong Hulk is but again, its kind of hard to judge how hard Hulk is punching you since, well, people like Cap, Spiderman, and Wolverine have survived punches from him. Hell, Wolverine has withstood punches from one of the strongest incarnations of the Hulks (WWH). All of these people would explode from a punch from Goku.

Like I said before and will continue to say, NO ONE has taken everything Goku has taken in one fight and lived to talk about it. No one has demenstrated the kind of speed during combat like Goku has. It is very rare to find people that has demonstrated the kind of punching power Goku have. This isnt even including his output of power. Goku is on another level but again, this is my opinion.

Originally posted by -Pr-
eh, no it wasn't. his fastest one is FAR faster.

but go on, what one are you referring to?

catching a bullet is a combat speed feat. we've been over this.

I know we have been through this and I'm not disagreeing with you. I never said that Superman was slow and I also agree, Superman has shown plenty of times that he is faster than the speed of sound, even combat wise, so I dont know why you brought that up.

I agree, catching a bullet is a combat speed feat and Superman have some of the best bullet catching feats, thats why I think he would get the first three to four hits on Surfer, Thor, Hulk, almost anyone in or below his class before they get the chance to draw a punch.

YuYu character's have faster combat speed than DBZ-ers.

estahuh

Originally posted by -Pr-
for me, combat speed is reflexes and the speed you can move your limbs at to perform complex tasks, all of which superman has in spades.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Are you saying that goku has better strength then WWH?I like DBZ and I argue for it but goku(even SS4)isn't close to WWH in strength.I'd barley put anyone in that strength category.

Naah, they are not stronger than WWH. This is a guy that was punching so hard that he destroyed a big ass island.

Originally posted by carver9
I know we have been through this and I'm not disagreeing with you. I never said that Superman was slow and I also agree, Superman has shown plenty of times that he is faster than the speed of sound, even combat wise, so I dont know why you brought that up.

I agree, catching a bullet is a combat speed feat and Superman have some of the best bullet catching feats, thats why I think he would get the first three to four hits on Surfer, Thor, Hulk, almost anyone in or below his class before they get the chance to draw a punch.

then why did you say his best combat speed feat was at the speed of sound?

Originally posted by -Pr-
for me, combat speed is reflexes and the speed you can move your limbs at to perform complex tasks, all of which superman has in spades.

I know this... Goku as a child has more impressive bullet catching feats than Superman. The guy slapped machine gun fire (as a child) from 6 different shooters out of the air.

Originally posted by carver9
I know this... Goku as a child has more impressive bullet catching feats than Superman. The guy slapped machine gun fire (as a child) from 6 different shooters out of the air.

superman has better feats than that.

Originally posted by -Pr-
then why did you say his best combat speed feat was at the speed of sound?

I never said his best, I said his only combat speed showing that we can basically tell how fast he was going is at the speed of sound BUT we have showings of Superman moving at 2000mps which is far above the speed of sound and that is something that I brought up as well.

Originally posted by carver9
So you are basing them off of versatility?

I cant see a GL standing up to Goku let alone Superman.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Tier placements are supposed to be based on overall ability, not just fighting competence, though that does play a part.

Goku's abilities are pretty much all offensive and one dimensional, which is why I don't rank him higher. Just like why I don't think much of Hulk.

And yes, I think some GLs can beat Supes using their brains and the abilities of their rings. Supes is stronger and faster, but their powers, used properly, easily trump his. Maybe not Ch'p, but I'd give odds to Hal, Sinestro, or Alan, and possibly current Guy and Kilowog, etc.

Originally posted by -Pr-
eh, no it wasn't. his fastest one is FAR faster.

but go on, what one are you referring to?

catching a bullet is a combat speed feat. we've been over this.

Originally posted by -Pr-
superman has better feats than that.

Well, the last time Superman was put into a situation like that, Flash had to assist him at catching the bullets. I'm just comparing both and thats what made me bring up Goku bullet catching feat because Superman was put in the same situation and needed aid from Flash at stopping the bullets. Then you have the Equus feat where he even admitted that he was unable to stop ALL of the bullets.

Originally posted by carver9
I never said his best, I said his only combat speed showing that we can basically tell how fast he was going is at the speed of sound

no, it's not.

he has other showings where it's stated that he's moving faster than sound in a combat setting.

Originally posted by carver9
Well, the last time Superman was put into a situation like that, Flash had to assist him at catching the bullets. I'm just comparing both and thats what made me bring up Goku bullet catching feat because Superman was put in the same situation and needed aid from Flash at stopping the bullets. Then you have the Equus feat where he even admitted that he was unable to stop ALL of the bullets.

when?

equus was a low showing, you KNOW this. it's contradicted by DOZENS of better feats.

Originally posted by carver9
Naah, they are not stronger than WWH. This is a guy that was punching so hard that he destroyed a big ass island.

Originally posted by carver9
I'll post them later, I'm about to head to work.

Gone to work yet?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Wait...are you talking about goku or WWH?

WWH, I admit that WWH is stronger.

Originally posted by -Pr-
no, it's not.

he has other showings where it's stated that he's moving faster than sound in a combat setting.

when?

equus was a low showing, you KNOW this. it's contradicted by DOZENS of better feats.

Well, gee, then what do we have for goku? Because that "moving faster than the eye can see" thing is something the street level characters can do.

i just want to see the flash feat...

Originally posted by -Pr-
no, it's not.

he has other showings where it's stated that he's moving faster than sound in a combat setting.

when?

equus was a low showing, you KNOW this. it's contradicted by DOZENS of better feats.

LOL, when I get back tonight (9 hrs from now), I will post the scans for you.

Originally posted by carver9
WWH, I admit that WWH is stronger.

Originally posted by carver9
LOL, when I get back tonight (9 hrs from now), I will post the scans for you.

if you name the issue, that would be enough.