Mixed Genre & Comic Tier Reference Guide

Originally posted by Placidity
What do you mean name showings? Just watch the anime, its evident.

Person A can move faster than Person B can see.
Person C can move faster than Person A can see.
Person D can move faster than Person C can see.
Person E can move faster than Person D can see.
Person F can move faster than Person E can see.
Goku can move faster than Person F can see.

You do the math. But if you even thought about it rationally, its quite impressive.

And when I say "move", I don't mean just flying at full speed, they are fighting constantly at the same time.

Anyway, this is probably a waste of time. Most people are either Superman or DBZ fanboys which hates the other character no matter what. I happen to have great respect for both characters. Until recently, when I decided to watch the whole anime again due to nostalgia, I thought superman would win, but now I think its in the favor of DB fighters.

Also, one of the main powers of Saiyans that would warrant a high herald classification is their ability to improve substantially after each battle. Their power is potentially limitless. After a fight with someone like superman, even if you think Goku would get beaten up, he can just teleport away, recuperate and come back strong enough to win (or if not just repeat).

Zarbon vs Vegeta is a simple example. Vegeta was getting his ass kicked left right and center. After healing from that one fight, he could destroy Zarbon with one blast.

If people weren't so anti-DBZ they'd realize how powerful this ability really is, its definitely up there, maybe even Transcendent.

And isn't tier ranking based on what they are capable of and not what they actually do?Otherwise wouldn't surfer and thor and superman be lower?Wouldn't that be why DBZ should be ranked as heralds and above.

The anime where he needed Picollo's and Gohans help to beat Raditz? Or Gohan, Krillin, and Yajirobe's help to beat Vegeta?
Or Gohan and Piccolo's help to beat Frieza?
Or Vegeta's help to beat Kid Buu.

If Batman or Captain America meets someone ten time stronger than them they beat them with superior skill. If Goku meets someone twice as strong as him he's in trouble.

Name a time G0oku has used skill to beat someone.

Person A can move faster than Person B can see. Person C can move faster than Person A can see. Person D can move faster than Person C can see. Person E can move faster than Person D can see. Person F can move faster than Person E can see. Goku can move faster than Person F can see. You do the math. But if you even thought about it rationally, its quite impressive.

Okay lets have person A at 90 m/s per second which is the amount needed to move faster than a human can see. From then on each person is ten times faster. At ten times human speed I could beat any human on the planet with ease, which give you the difference you want.

Goku can move at 9000 km/s then. Superman has a number of lightspeed and above reaction feats. The speed I quoted is 0.03% of lightspeed. Math isn't on your side.

You're also ignoring the fact normal humans were able to perceive fights in the Cell games and the Buu saga.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I wouldn't say its that fast.But when goku SS1 and cell were fighting even the other Z fighters couldn't see them.

And isn't tier ranking based on what they are capable of and not what they actually do?Otherwise wouldn't surfer and thor and superman be lower?Wouldn't that be why DBZ should be ranked as heralds and above.

No because we can actually provide scans of Superman Thor or the surfer doing those things where as all DBZ has is supposition through power scaling and not actual feats.

Btw, Gotenks SSJ ONE (much weaker than Goku) flies around the world 9 times (in different directions mind you), in under 5 seconds.

Thats roughly 1/5th the speed of light.

However, note:

- he changed directions at every revolution.
- the circumference was actually greater since he revolved around it in space.
- He was only at SSJ 1.
- Arguably he wasn't even trying given its freaking Gotenks.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw

Okay lets have person A at 90 m/s per second which is the amount needed to move faster than a human can see. From then on each person is ten times faster. At ten times human speed I could beat any human on the planet with ease, which give you the difference you want.

Goku can move at 9000 km/s then. Superman has a number of lightspeed and above reaction feats. The speed I quoted is 0.03% of lightspeed. Math isn't on your side.

Where do you get this 90 m/s figure from?

Also, why do you assume the base figure is 90 m/s? Thats just the minimum speed required to be invisible to the human eye (or so you claim), doesn't mean thats where they start off at. For example, Person A could've started off at the speed of light (not making this claim, just to demonstrate something).

So yea, Math isn't on your side.

Again, they aren't simply moving, they are fighting at the same time, big difference.

Also, you are assuming for example Person B is only 10x faster than Person A. This may be true in some cases, but in others, his power levels are much higher, so he was probably more than 10x faster each time.

There's been a huge amount of debate on how long Gotenks took to go round the world. But even if we take as you've said as true.

It's also nothing compared to Superman's speed feats. He's been shown to be able to fly to other star systems in minutes. So still slower than Superman.

Care to name any things that Goku's actually done that warrant him being transcendent level?

Originally posted by Galvaclaw

Care to name any things that Goku's actually done that warrant him being transcendent level?

Ability to improve without limit.

Substantial improvements, more than double in some cases, in strength, speed, durability, and energy output.

This ability would make him the strongest physical force.

And yes, when talking about classification, its about capability, its not a vs fight.

Thats one reason why Amazo and Doomsday is Transcendent.

All DBZ hating aside, Placidity makes a very valid point.

Originally posted by Placidity
Ability to improve without limit.

Substantial improvements, more than double in some cases, in strength, speed, durability, and energy output.

This ability would make him the strongest physical force.

And yes, when talking about classification, its about capability, its not a vs fight.

Thats one reason why Amazo and Doomsday is Transcendent.

I imagine Doomsday and Amazo are transcendent because they can engage and defeat multiple high heralds at once. Comicbook Amazo does not have the ability to improve he merely possesses the power of whoever is in the justice league. He was once defeated by disbanding the justice league.

And if we did by potential Superman would be skyfather. What with sundipping and his #1,000,000 incarnation.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
The anime where he needed Picollo's and Gohans help to beat Raditz? Or Gohan, Krillin, and Yajirobe's help to beat Vegeta?
Or Gohan and Piccolo's help to beat Frieza?
Or Vegeta's help to beat Kid Buu.

If Batman or Captain America meets someone ten time stronger than them they beat them with superior skill. If Goku meets someone twice as strong as him he's in trouble.

Name a time G0oku has used skill to beat someone.

Okay lets have person A at 90 m/s per second which is the amount needed to move faster than a human can see. From then on each person is ten times faster. At ten times human speed I could beat any human on the planet with ease, which give you the difference you want.

Goku can move at 9000 km/s then. Superman has a number of lightspeed and above reaction feats. The speed I quoted is 0.03% of lightspeed. Math isn't on your side.

You're also ignoring the fact normal humans were able to perceive fights in the Cell games and the Buu saga.

Pretty much everyone as a kid.In DBZ is more about energy then martial arts.And MA is all batman and cap have so all of their defeats are due to MA.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
The anime where he needed Picollo's and Gohans help to beat Raditz? Or Gohan, Krillin, and Yajirobe's help to beat Vegeta?
Or Gohan and Piccolo's help to beat Frieza?
Or Vegeta's help to beat Kid Buu.

If Batman or Captain America meets someone ten time stronger than them they beat them with superior skill. If Goku meets someone twice as strong as him he's in trouble.

Name a time G0oku has used skill to beat someone.

Okay lets have person A at 90 m/s per second which is the amount needed to move faster than a human can see. From then on each person is ten times faster. At ten times human speed I could beat any human on the planet with ease, which give you the difference you want.

Goku can move at 9000 km/s then. Superman has a number of lightspeed and above reaction feats. The speed I quoted is 0.03% of lightspeed. Math isn't on your side.

You're also ignoring the fact normal humans were able to perceive fights in the Cell games and the Buu saga.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
No because we can actually provide scans of Superman Thor or the surfer doing those things where as all DBZ has is supposition through power scaling and not actual feats.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
There's been a huge amount of debate on how long Gotenks took to go round the world. But even if we take as you've said as true.

It's also nothing compared to Superman's speed feats. He's been shown to be able to fly to other star systems in minutes. So still slower than Superman.

Care to name any things that Goku's actually done that warrant him being transcendent level?

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
I imagine Doomsday and Amazo are transcendent because they can engage and defeat multiple high heralds at once. Comicbook Amazo does not have the ability to improve he merely possesses the power of whoever is in the justice league. He was once defeated by disbanding the justice league.

And if we did by potential Superman would be skyfather. What with sundipping and his #1,000,000 incarnation.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Slower then supermans flight speed.Not combat speed.

Influenced by carver? Silly.

Originally posted by amnesia
Influenced by carver? Silly.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Those are really cheap shots.Because raditz was 10 times stronger then both of them.And vegeta only beat goku because he became a great ape.

Pretty much everyone as a kid.In DBZ is more about energy then martial arts.And MA is all batman and cap have so all of their defeats are due to MA. And they also weren't when they were fighting at high speed. No feats huh.GTFO.No your just makin up complete bullshit. Slower then supermans flight speed.Not combat speed. But superman needs an outside source to do that.Goku just needs himself.

^

No, i have no desire to discuss dumb shows with you, I'm off.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
I imagine Doomsday and Amazo are transcendent because they can engage and defeat multiple high heralds at once. Comicbook Amazo does not have the ability to improve he merely possesses the power of whoever is in the justice league. He was once defeated by disbanding the justice league.

And if we did by potential Superman would be skyfather. What with sundipping and his #1,000,000 incarnation.

No, as stated by many, its not enough to just be strong/fast/durable, you must have some other very powerful or potent ability.

About Superman sundipping, theres nothing to say you can't make that argument. But the problem is he would need to be constantly sundipping, and if the sun was destroyed that option wouldn't be viable. The main thing is that its not innately part of him, he relies on the sun. But, based purely on ranking, because of that potential powerup, I would put him above others which would otherwise be in the same league.

Goku also has the potential to learn new techniques with ki manipulation. Just look at what gotenks came up with in 6 hours, all sorts of shit beyond just firing blasts.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I've still been waiting for glava to posts supes average combat speed feats.Can you?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He's right BB. No one in DBZ has ever successfully beaten anyone with a higher power level without some kind of help. Skill means little in DBZ.

If there were more enemies they could do it like that but if it weren't then sagas in DBZ would be very short.From cell to buu skill does mean little.Doesn't change the fact that he is a top MAer.

No feats huh.GTFO.No your just makin up complete bullshit.

Right... Care to name any transcendent level feats from Goku?

Those are really cheap shots.Because raditz was 10 times stronger then both of them

Actually 3.6 times.

But superman needs an outside source to do that.Goku just needs himself.

How does source of powers have anything to do with who's more powerful?

I've still been waiting for glava to posts supes average combat speed feats.Can you?

You can look at the Superman respect thread as easily as I can. That's where I'd get them.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
You mean with the 3 enemies in DBZ?Its about them advancing to the next power level and thats how they beat them.

If there were more enemies they could do it like that but if it weren't then sagas in DBZ would be very short.From cell to buu skill does mean little.Doesn't change the fact that he is a top MAer.

Bullshit is Goku a Top Tier MA. If he were depowered to human stats Batman would make Goku his little ***** in a sparring match.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Right... Care to name any transcendent level feats from Goku?

Actually 3.6 times.

How does source of powers have anything to do with who's more powerful?

You can look at the Superman respect thread as easily as I can. That's where I'd get them.

What?Just because his power level was 3.6x higher doesn't equate to only being 3.6x stronger.Sometimes more sometimes less.In this case more.

You were talking about him sundipping for growing in power.The sun is an outside source.

Bring supermans average combat speed feats.Then I'll bring gokus.