Toguro vs. Colossus

Originally posted by jinzin
I don't think it had to be said to be clearly displayed...

Again how are you going to try and rationalize his fight with Yusuke then?

Are you under the impression that Yusuke just moves far faster while he's messing around with Hiei than he would in a life or death fight? 🤨

Normally? No..

During fights? Yes...
😐

It's like Shin said about the whole DBZ style of power levels...
These character's always use energy when they fight, it stands to reason that they would be doing so in a fight here so I fail to see what point you're trying to make here. 😬

It certainly didn't seem that way, what with him getting his tale kicked an' all. 😬

And then we've got Kierrok, who also rocked Colossus to the point that he knocked him unconcious.

Here's my thing.

Teguro's easily strong enough to compete with Colossus - We see this when he carries the new ring into the Dark Tournament, a rock that size would on average easily weigh WELL OVER 100 tons lest it was made from Pummice which I think we can all agree that it wasn't...
And Teguro wasn't even powered up there... he was at what 30%? 40 maybe?

Teguro's easily far superior to Colossus in sheer speed - Aside from the comparisons of saga vs saga, you can clearly see an incredible display of speed in the last pic that SHin posted... It's rather adsurd to think that he won't have an immense speed advantage here unless you're trying to ignore logical steps for the sake of bias.

Teguro's argueably more skilled than Colossus in h2h combat - being an age-old demon who trained alongside the likes of Gen-Kai for years in martial arts... I would think he would have a considerable experience advantage over Colossus as well.

Teguro has the durability to take shots from Colossus - The man shrugged off an incredibly powerful Spirit Gun attack that leveled half an island and arena... A few class 100 shots should be nothing for this guy...

What else is there to say that Colossus would win this fight past some exaggeration to a magical defense he doesn't have to protect his soul?
I think people are coming into this thread thinking "Colossus is metal and the other guy isn't so Colossus wins" when nothing could be further from the truth.

So I'm under the impression you can not actually prove Teguro's speed above whee a normal low-meta beings is unless you would say Teguro is faster than Wolverine which I haven't seen.

Except it did when Colossus upgraded handed Sym his butt for an entire fight.

And yes Teguro has the strength to compete but then again Colossus has Teguro in spades on durability so it doesn't matter what he throws out he can take it for entire fight and the problem with their energy is the more they use the weaker they become unlike Colossus who always is that durable.

Originally posted by jinzin

It certainly didn't seem that way, what with him getting his tale kicked an' all. 😬

Originally posted by jinzin

And then we've got Kierrok, who also rocked Colossus to the point that he knocked him unconcious.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
You must be talking about their first fight. Obviously you're not referring to the last two fights they had.
Where was this shown?

I was under the impression tat Sym's had a sever powerdown since then, what with being beaten by Cable in hand to hand and killed with a stick an' all.

- it was shown in uncanny 106 (I think), and later reiterated in X-men Unlimited.

Originally posted by jinzin
I was under the impression tat Sym's had a sever powerdown since then, what with being beaten by Cable in hand to hand and killed with a stick an' all.

- it was shown in uncanny 106 (I think), and later reiterated in X-men Unlimited.

He had a large power-up in that fight.

Originally posted by jinzin
I was under the impression tat Sym's had a sever powerdown since then, what with being beaten by Cable in hand to hand and killed with a stick an' all.

- it was shown in uncanny 106 (I think), and later reiterated in X-men Unlimited.

As far as Kierrok Colossus punched him in the gut then in the face which sent Kierrok flying, then Kierrok gets up and throws a large slab of metal at Colossus then I think Nightcrawler started his assault. Basically there was no magic involved in the fight that I recall.

And actually S'ym had Cable on the ropes before he was distracted by some chic or something.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Actually S'ym was growing stronger as he mentioned before they started fo fight.

As far as Kierrok Colossus punched him in the gut then in the face which sent Kierrok flying, then Kierrok gets up and throws a large slab of metal at Colossus then I think Nightcrawler started his assault. Basically there was no magic involved in the fight that I recall.

And actually S'ym had Cable on the ropes before he was distracted by some chic or something.

The Kierrok reference wasn't really to illustrate magic so much as demons.

And C'mon, Sym got beaten by Excalibur, the fact that he had trouble putting Cable down with punches, was effected by Cables own fists and got killed by a broken stick... I mean you're seriously going to tell me that's in the same league as a guy that was beating both Colossus and Wolverine.. 😕

Originally posted by Newjak
So the fact that Wolverine can hit Northstar means he can now move at 99.9 % speed of light.

That's a TRULY poor example to be using.
The only times that Wolverine's tagged Northstar have been when Northstar's tried to hold onto Logan for a ride (non-canon), or when he surprised him... the only other chances he has of touching Northstar in a fight are through sheer luck, or by leading him while he's not traveling near lightspeed. 😐

"The Fact" is that the Teguro example differs GREATLY from yours since Teguro was not only able to consistently keep pace with Yusuke but he had Yusuke completely baffled by his own speed at the end of the fight.

If there were examples where Wolverine was outpacing Northstar before Northstar could even launch an attack, then you would have a point... but if he did, it would make him a character who uses super speed...
Like...Teguro... 😐

Originally posted by Newjak
Face it you have no real speed feats for Teguro just him fighting Yuske where Yuske was using his energies for bigger attacks then boosting his speed.

And again, Teguro's feats eminate both from his ability to keep up with Yusuke as well as baffle him using his speed... AND from a saga vs saga comparison and analysis.

And again I draw on the question:
Why would Yusuke use an incredible amount of speed while just messing around with Heie but not use it against an opponent in a life or death battle?

It makes no sense.. Especially when you consider that Teguro was the bigger, stronger, more powerful opponent.. you don't fight someone like that head on unless you're out of options... it goes against some of the most basic fighting principles as well as even MORE basic principles of logic...

Why are you under the impression Yusuke WASN'T using his speed? 😕

Originally posted by Newjak
So I'm under the impression you can not actually prove Teguro's speed above whee a normal low-meta beings is unless you would say Teguro is faster than Wolverine which I haven't seen.

Again the fact that you think Teguro is at a level of speed that slow compared to Yusuke is simply absurd.. if that was the case, there wouldn't have even been a fight between the two so much as a farce.

I would think it's obvious that Teguro's faster than Logan...

Did you even read Shins post?

Originally posted by Newjak
Except it did when Colossus upgraded handed Sym his butt for an entire fight.

As I said to snoop.

Originally posted by Newjak
And yes Teguro has the strength to compete but then again Colossus has Teguro in spades on durability so it doesn't matter what he throws out he can take it for entire fight and the problem with their energy is the more they use the weaker they become unlike Colossus who always is that durable.

"Face it" the only way you can give Colossus a win here is by giving Colossus the ben of the doubt in matters he hasn't proven while stripping Teguro of the feats he DOES have...
😐

Colossus would lose this fight.. and lose it badly..

Originally posted by Newjak
So I'm under the impression you can not actually prove Teguro's speed above whee a normal low-meta beings is unless you would say Teguro is faster than Wolverine which I haven't seen.

He ran through every support pillar of a parking lot in seconds. He had to turn several time and must have been slowed down by going though each pillar.

In combat he was close to Yuske during the DarkTournament or at the very least didn't seem to have much of a problem with someone that fast.

Originally posted by jinzin
The Kierrok reference wasn't really to illustrate magic so much as demons.

And C'mon, Sym got beaten by Excalibur, the fact that he had trouble putting Cable down with punches, was effected by Cables own fists and got killed by a broken stick... I mean you're seriously going to tell me that's in the same league as a guy that was beating both Colossus and Wolverine.. 😕

Except Sym is a demon and Colossus beat him down badly. No but beating Magik in Limbo where she is almost God is very impressive which is what Sym did 😛

Originally posted by jinzin
That's a TRULY poor example to be using.
The only times that Wolverine's tagged Northstar have been when Northstar's tried to hold onto Logan for a ride (non-canon), or when he surprised him... the only other chances he has of touching Northstar in a fight are through sheer luck, or by leading him while he's not traveling near lightspeed. 😐

"The Fact" is that the Teguro example differs GREATLY from yours since Teguro was not only able to consistently keep pace with Yusuke but he had Yusuke completely baffled by his own speed at the end of the fight.

If there were examples where Wolverine was outpacing Northstar before Northstar could even launch an attack, then you would have a point... but if he did, it would make him a character who uses super speed...
Like...Teguro... 😐

This argument doesn't work either... You set up this fallacy that Yusuke can only focus on his power or his speed, but focusing on one while be at the cost of the other.. that's not how those powerups work though. They're relative to everything; speed, power, durability...

And again, Teguro's feats eminate both from his ability to keep up with Yusuke as well as baffle him using his speed... AND from a saga vs saga comparison and analysis.

And again I draw on the question:
Why would Yusuke use an incredible amount of speed while just messing around with Heie but not use it against an opponent in a life or death battle?

It makes no sense.. Especially when you consider that Teguro was the bigger, stronger, more powerful opponent.. you don't fight someone like that head on unless you're out of options... it goes against some of the most basic fighting principles as well as even MORE basic principles of logic...

Why are you under the impression Yusuke WASN'T using his speed? 😕

😐

Again the fact that you think Teguro is at a level of speed that slow compared to Yusuke is simply absurd.. if that was the case, there wouldn't have even been a fight between the two so much as a farce.

I would think it's obvious that Teguro's faster than Logan...

Did you even read Shins post?

As I said to snoop.

I don't see where you're getting this from...
Teguro shrugged off a forest incinerating Island quaking/leveling blast like it was a rough gust of air... he wasn't even near full power...

"Face it" the only way you can give Colossus a win here is by giving Colossus the ben of the doubt in matters he hasn't proven while stripping Teguro of the feats he DOES have...
😐

Colossus would lose this fight.. and lose it badly..

You like talking about speed feats you do remember he couldn't chase down a pick-up truck even on a bicycle and that was after the Dark Tournament Saga and that was trying to save his best friends life so you know he was going as fast as he could.

Saga to saga got to love it 😐

So your entire post has become crap 😉

By the way Colossus has taken punches from Gladiator for an extended period of time so I think Teguro will be like a kitten.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He ran through every support pillar of a parking lot in seconds. He had to turn several time and must have been slowed down by going though each pillar.

In combat he was close to Yuske during the DarkTournament or at the very least didn't seem to have much of a problem with someone that fast.

Originally posted by Newjak
You mean the same thing Rouge could have done as well 😉

The parking lot? Sure.

Not having a problem with Uuske's speed? No.

Originally posted by Newjak
Except Sym is a demon and Colossus beat him down badly. No but beating Magik in Limbo where she is almost God is very impressive which is what Sym did 😛

Originally posted by Newjak
Except to use more power in one aspect like say charging up a super powered Spirit Gun will obviously prevent Yuske from using his full on speed which by the way isn't that good.

I can't believe you're actually saying that Yusuke's speed isn't that good... Yusuke.. the guy who routinely matches up with Heie.. 😐

And, obviously Yusuke will be more planted while shotting off his SG but his speed wasn't hindered in the h2h combat, especially after dispatching the spirit cuffs.. after Teguro went 100% it didn't matter though.

Originally posted by Newjak
You like talking about speed feats you do remember he couldn't chase down a pick-up truck even on a bicycle and that was after the Dark Tournament Saga and that was trying to save his best friends life so you know he was going as fast as he could.

Fighting speed vs. travel speed?

Originally posted by Newjak
Saga to saga got to love it 😐

So your entire post has become crap 😉

And we've been so civil thus far.

Originally posted by Newjak
By the way Colossus has taken punches from Gladiator for an extended period of time so I think Teguro will be like a kitten.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The parking lot? Sure.

Not having a problem with Uuske's speed? No.

Yeah that screams speed Colossus hasn't dealt with before 😉

Originally posted by jinzin
granted.

I can't believe you're actually saying that Yusuke's speed isn't that good... Yusuke.. the guy who routinely matches up with Heie.. 😐

And, obviously Yusuke will be more planted while shotting off his SG but his speed wasn't hindered in the h2h combat, especially after dispatching the spirit cuffs.. after Teguro went 100% it didn't matter though.

Fighting speed vs. travel speed?

This coming from the guy who's ignoring evidence and making wild speculations?

And we've been so civil thus far.

He also got handled like a rag doll by the likes of Kierrok, a calm Juggernaught, Moses Magnum, and Sasquatch... You'll have to forgive me if I disagree.

So I'm sorry but compared to everyother speed feat you can muster for Yusuke and Teguro is at best Wolverine Level You'll have to forgive me if I disagree Teguro is too fast for colossus.

I'm not the one making speculations fact teguro isn't faster than Wolverine and there is no evidence to suggest such.

Colossus can fight Wolverine just fine. Colossus has taken everything Teguro has shown to be able to dish out before in spades. Colossus is also a very good fighter and isn't a slouch in speed either. They may be roughly equal in strength but Colossus' durability feats speak for themselves.

By the way he never got handled by Sas and a Calm Juggernaut would still tear Teguro limb from limb

Originally posted by Newjak
You mean the same superpowered being that could barely catch a pickup truck probably doing at best 100 mph on a bike aiding him.

Yeah that screams speed Colossus hasn't dealt with before 😉

No I mean the superpowered being who punches fast enough that the shockwave can knock a adult man several feet back 😐

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No I mean the superpowered being who punches fast enough that the shockwave can knock a adult man several feet back 😐

Originally posted by Newjak
Or you know it could be the fact the guy can you know hit really hard 😐

It could be. But he charged the guy and he didn't touch him. That speaks to speed not strength 😬

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It could be. But he charged the guy and he didn't touch him. That speaks to speed not strength 😬

Originally posted by Newjak
It speaks of force not speed and force would coronate with both speed and strength 😛

B-b-but Force = Mass x Acceleration. That wouldn't make any sense.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
B-b-but Force = Mass x Acceleration. That wouldn't make any sense.