Originally posted by Funkadelic
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/prince+piano/video/x18a6o_princeavalanche_events
I never said Prince couldn't play piano. I just said he wasn't as good as a pianist as Billy Joel.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7AXGIl1yHWA
Joel playing guitar; does that making him a better guirtist?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That ISN'T what I'm saying. "Better" is subjective when it comes to QUALITY. I'm saying he's not as successful as Prince, if you think he's better, then name him for this thread because of his SONGWRITING quality, not because of success. I'm not naming Prince because of success, I'm naming him because I believe his quality to be superior. YOU were the one who kept saying everyone was blind to agreeing Billy Joel is the best songwriter BECAUSE he has hits. If hits is how you decide, Prince wins. If it's QUALITY OF MUSIC, it's opinion.You see FIVE under the name PRINCE. He has had FIVE solo, TWO with The Revolution and ONE with The New Power Generation. They aren't all listed under "Prince". He did, however, write them.
Prince > Joel. Success = Objectively. Quality = Subjectively.
Yeah, like that time he got trashed for failing to hit the notes on the national anthem, Prince's half time show went down as the greatest half time show ever, one of the biggest watched televised events since the moon landing. Joel? No, Prince.
So you're saying that because American Idol, a show geared toward making corporate puppets to gain money, say something...it's true? How very stupid and desperate.
So what if NELLY FURTADO has performed Joel songs? Do I need to give you the list of how many people have not only performed Prince songs, but songs written BY Prince FOR them?
What are we discussing? Who makes better quality music? Who has more success or who is more influential? Prince is undeniably and factually the better skilled musician, when it comes to playing instruments. Joel being a "great" piano player doesn't make him more skilled at it.
The thread is "Best Songwriter." so I think we should just be discussing why we think the music itself is worthy of the accolade. YOU brought up hits, I countered you and now you're clutching at desperate straws.
-AC
And you are saying that Prince is better despite Joel having more top 40 hits. You keep trashing at me for saying Joel is better because he has more top 40 hits and YET YOU KEEPING DOING THE SAME by saying Prince is better because he has 5 number 1 hits. You named off Prince's top hits and I named all of Joel's and yet when I did you tried to come up with some BS.
You are saying that because Prince manages to come out with a new album basically he is the better song writer. Now you are saying Prince is the better muscian by naming all these people who call Prince a great guartist. Now that I do the same with Joel and the piano all of a sudden I'm the one getting off topic.
You say Joel messed up the Star Spangled Banner and yet I have never heard/seen someone saw it was a horrible perfomance like you claimed it. That gender confused artist you like so much isn't the better song writer.
Originally posted by ESB -1138
And you are saying that Prince is better despite Joel having more top 40 hits. You keep trashing at me for saying Joel is better because he has more top 40 hits and YET YOU KEEPING DOING THE SAME by saying Prince is better because he has 5 number 1 hits. You named off Prince's top hits and I named all of Joel's and yet when I did you tried to come up with some BS.
Ok, I'll say it ONE MORE TIME. Joel having more songs in the general top 40 does not mean the QUALITY of his songs is better, do you understand that? It doesn't make him MORE successful.
Quality of music cannot be judged by success, ok? Ok good.
I am saying Prince is better (As in, makes better music.) because I BELIEVE he does. NOT because of success, hits or amount of songs. YOU are saying everyone is blind cos they can't agree Joel is the best, purely because of "hits". IF hits is how you want to judge, PRINCE still wins. Why? Because Prince has been at the top of the charts more than Billy. Despite having slightly less top 40 hits, he has had more higher charting songs than Joel.
I am NOT saying Prince is a better songwriter because he has had more number ones, I'm saying he's more SUCCESSFUL as a CHARTED ARTIST because of it.;
WHAT are we discussing? Are we discussing quality of music or success? Stop confusing the two.
Originally posted by ESB -1138
You are saying that because Prince manages to come out with a new album basically he is the better song writer. Now you are saying Prince is the better muscian by naming all these people who call Prince a great guartist. Now that I do the same with Joel and the piano all of a sudden I'm the one getting off topic.
Stop being ignorant, I am not saying that at all. I've never said that. Prince ISN'T a better songwriter because he comes out with new albums or whatever. Here, I'll explain it ONE MORE TIME;
I personally believe Prince is the better songwriter because I personally believe he writes better music. Ok? Good. Secondly, YOU were the one who suggested Joel was better because of HITS and success. So then I simply said he wasn't more successful, and proved such. If hits are how you judge "better songwriter", then my point was that Prince still wins because he's still the more SUCCESSFUL songwriter.
We can either discuss quality, or we can discuss success. I am not saying he's better for having more songs or more hits, I'm simply saying he does have more successful hits. No more, no less.
Prince is factually a better player, a better skilled musician than Joel. Prince is amazing at piano, one of the best guitarists ever, an amazing drummer, an incredible bassist and a very versatile vocalist. He is massively skilled in many areas. Joel is a "very good" pianist and a poor live singer, as proven by his Superbowl show. He's not a highly skilled technical player.
Originally posted by ESB -1138
You say Joel messed up the Star Spangled Banner and yet I have never heard/seen someone saw it was a horrible perfomance like you claimed it. That gender confused artist you like so much isn't the better song writer.
Billy Joel famously got panned for singing it out of tune, I'm not sure what more can be said. You can deny it, but it happened.
Oh...oh, what a way to truly invalidate your argument, how sad. Gender confused? What does that have to do with ANYTHING? He's not gender confused in any case. Even if he was, the "gender confused" artist would still be the more skilled, successful musician.
Whether or not he writes better songs or whether or not Joel writes better songs is OPINION.
So I'll say again; if your next reply is more bs with you totally confusing the points I've made, despite me clearing it up, I will just reply to whatever's relevant.
Recap; I think Prince is better cos in my opinion he writes better music, not because of hits or success, BUT, he DOES have more successful hits and has been the more successful musician. So if that is how YOU decide who is better, Prince would still win, by YOUR rationale.
-AC
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Solo or The Smiths?Johnny Marr wrote The Smiths' songs.
I was unsure what the question related to, so, I assumed lyrical content or otherwise composition. Sort of a choose between the two.
Though, Johnny Marr would obviously be close to taking the same title, for different reasons, in my book. I answered Morrissey.
Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I was unsure what the question related to, so, I assumed lyrical content or otherwise composition. Sort of a choose between the two.Though, Johnny Marr would obviously be close to taking the same title, for different reasons, in my book. I answered Morrissey.
Lyricism isn't songwriting. Songwriting is songwriting.
Morrissey doesn't write his own songs. Contribute maybe, but it's either his band or it was Marr.
-AC
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Well, you assume that being a technical instrumentalist is synonymous with being a great overall musician . If you were more specific and said he is a better "instrumentalist" or that he plays more musical instruments skillfully, you might have a point. Objectively a better musician? You have not proven that.
2D, if I may...
Prince is as skilled a musician as there ever has been in the history of music. The greatest accolade is to be known as such by your industry...those who dwell in it....appreciate and compete against him.....acknowledged by peers, past & present; and I will assume future. 😐
Something that I wonder about is:
How, if at all, are people considering this differently to the question 'Who is your favourite artist?', and why?
Are people just naming their favourite artists, and using that as the justification, or are they considering the concept of skilled songwriting in some other way?
Originally posted by Victor Von DoomI guess they have to, at least, ignore bands that create their songs in a combined effort, and people that don't write their songs...though, apparently they don't. Should though, bastards.
Something that I wonder about is:How, if at all, are people considering this differently to the question 'Who is your favourite artist?', and why?
Are people just naming their favourite artists, and using that as the justification, or are they considering the concept of skilled songwriting in some other way?
Originally posted by Bardock42
I guess they have to, at least, ignore bands that create their songs in a combined effort, and people that don't write their songs...though, apparently they don't. Should though, bastards.
Yeah, I didn't mean so much in the collaboration sense, more in the sense of 'what makes a good songwriter?', and whether that's the same as 'the person who makes the songs I like best'.