Thanos(with individual Infinity Gems) vs Darkseid

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah that's my bad because it was actually Trickster who asked for an example, you just got hung up on the Power Set thing. But never the less, it's comparing the EXACT same power(telepathy) from two different characters. Unless DS was born as an adult with full knowledge of ALL his powers and never had to practice or learn a damn thing, a future version of himself with 10,000 years of additional experience being able to do something is no reflection on his current incarnation unless you're willing to apply the same standard to everyone with the same power in question.

He doesn't have to be all knowing for his call on the forum rules to be valid. Should I ask you or one of the other posters whether or not something constitutes bashing/flaming/spamming now, or is a mod's opinion on the matter a better way to go?

As I said before it is impressive, but nothing beyond some of the tp feats of other high level psychics, because they weren't Superman level beings when he took control, and if he could have reestablished control he would have.

Now how in the world was he going to reestablish control with all of them, the LSH, and HF on his tail? In a weakened state?

Originally posted by darthgoober
[B]Yeah that's my bad because it was actually Trickster who asked for an example, you just got hung up on the Power Set thing. But never the less, it's comparing the EXACT same power(telepathy) from two different characters. Unless DS was born as an adult with full knowledge of ALL his powers and never had to practice or learn a damn thing, a future version of himself with 10,000 years of additional experience being able to do something is no reflection on his current incarnation unless you're willing to apply the same standard to everyone with the same power in question.

Originally posted by darthgoober
He doesn't have to be all knowing for his call on the forum rules to be valid. Should I ask you or one of the other posters whether or not something constitutes bashing/flaming/spamming now, or is a mod's opinion on the matter a better way to go?

Originally posted by darthgoober
As I said before it is impressive, but nothing beyond some of the tp feats of other high level psychics, because they weren't Superman level beings when he took control, and if he could have reestablished control he would have.

Originally posted by starking
The way a certain character's power works, doesn't aply to all. Experiance? Ds isn't that type o character, that has to "practice" or "improve" his abilities, through experiance. This NEVER, NEVER, [b]EVER, been shown on panel. It's very pointless to argue over it, there is NO context that supports that theory. Nada! He's skyfather for godsakes, he should have full skill over his power. That's like saying Galactus in a certain point of time, should have better use of his cosmic power. Ds is a god, and gods tend to be naturally skilled.

I can agree with many of the forum rules, because they're fair standards to debate under. I can agree with pis/cis, bloodlust, and no crossovers, because the settings in comics tend to be shakey. However I can't agree with alternate timeline feats being invalid, just because a mod says so. The reason me and you follow the forum rules, is because they are logical points that make a debate a little more realistic. I disagree with alternate timeline feats being invalid, because in my eyes, I see that as illogical. The space time continuum is real, and it really does work that way. To say something is unusable, only because the mod said so, doesn't make it true. What if a mod told you we couldn't use real world examples in a debate? Would you agree with that?

Wel my take on that is, the Daxamites could've been controlled even without the presence of the red sun. If they never resisted the tp, then I don't see how they could do so, if he was directly effecting them. [/B]

case closed. u cant count a feat unless u do it. how is this so hard. ds hanst done it yet and wont. case closed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
well there are rules here right? and people call pis every five seconds right? who is the judge and jury on pis? no one. so if u want to honor kmc rules then u repsect ewhat u can use on these forums about ds feats.

case closed. u cant count a feat unless u do it. how is this so hard. ds hanst done it yet and wont. case closed.

Originally posted by starking
Stop responding to me, I want you OUT of my business.

a feat isnt a feat until one does it.

have a great night,ok.

🙂

Originally posted by quanchi112
i come here to prove points. i dont care what u say. im not imsulting im merely showing u the light. im really sorry if i hurt ur feelings and im just here to argue comics ok.

a feat isnt a feat until one does it.

have a great night,ok.

🙂

Originally posted by starking
I'm trying to be nice. When I tell you to back off DO IT. I don't feel like listening to what you have to say, it's like your a attention freak. Please keep to yourself, if I want to debate with you, I WILL.

i know i like ds to and i think its acool feat but to be honest he changed his powerset when he started stealing peoples powers. mordru is badass. im glad ds fooled him and stole it from him. it shows how sneaky and underhanded ds can be. hes better at sneaking around.

Originally posted by starking
The way a certain character's power works, doesn't aply to all. Experiance? Ds isn't that type o character, that has to "practice" or "improve" his abilities, through experiance. This NEVER, NEVER, [b]EVER, been shown on panel. It's very pointless to argue over it, there is NO context that supports that theory. Nada! He's skyfather for godsakes, he should have full skill over his power. That's like saying Galactus in a certain point of time, should have better use of his cosmic power. Ds is a god, and gods tend to be naturally skilled.

I can agree with many of the forum rules, because they're fair standards to debate under. I can agree with pis/cis, bloodlust, and no crossovers, because the settings in comics tend to be shakey. However I can't agree with alternate timeline feats being invalid, just because a mod says so. The reason me and you follow the forum rules, is because they are logical points that make a debate a little more realistic. I disagree with alternate timeline feats being invalid, because in my eyes, I see that as illogical. The space time continuum is real, and it really does work that way. To say something is unusable, only because the mod said so, doesn't make it true. What if a mod told you we couldn't use real world examples in a debate? Would you agree with that?

Wel my take on that is, the Daxamites could've been controlled even without the presence of the red sun. If they never resisted the tp, then I don't see how they could do so, if he was directly effecting them. [/B]

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

"This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed."

So now Alternate Timelines are specifically(and officially) covered in the forum rules. That means that unless the thread starter specifically specifies GDS Darkseid, DS's feats from that arc are invalid under forum rules.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I decided to hold off my response to save us both a lot of time and unnecessary discussion on the matter. But here you go, a special addition to the forum rules(it's the last sentence under the Non Cannon Sources section)...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

"This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, [B]alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed."

So now Alternate Timelines are specifically(and officially) covered in the forum rules. That means that unless the thread starter specifically specifies GDS Darkseid, DS's feats from that arc are invalid under forum rules. [/B]

nice work darthgoober.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I decided to hold off my response to save us both a lot of time and unnecessary discussion on the matter. But here you go, a special addition to the forum rules(it's the last sentence under the Non Cannon Sources section)...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

"This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, [B]alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed."

So now Alternate Timelines are specifically(and officially) covered in the forum rules. That means that unless the thread starter specifically specifies GDS Darkseid, DS's feats from that arc are invalid under forum rules. [/B]

GDS DS was a pussy.

Originally posted by TheEyesoGOD
GDS DS was a pussy.

he stole powers like nobodys business.

Originally posted by quanchi112
no he wasnt. im sick of people treating darkseid like hes nothing. he wasnt all powerful but he was by no means a pussy. that version of ds was impressive.

he stole powers like nobodys business.

He sucked to me. I like the DS in Seven soldiers better. He pwned everybody. And was bitchn anyone who got in his way. He is way more powerful than GDS DS.

Originally posted by TheEyesoGOD
He sucked to me. I like the DS in Seven soldiers better. He pwned everybody. And was bitchn anyone who got in his way. He is way more powerful than GDS DS.

hmmmmmmmm

i just dont like it when people insult the gds darkseid. sure he needed an army and to steal powers to accomplish dominance but give him a break.

seven soldiers looks lame to me although i havent read it. darksied as darkside. makes me sick.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I decided to hold off my response to save us both a lot of time and unnecessary discussion on the matter. But here you go, a special addition to the forum rules(it's the last sentence under the Non Cannon Sources section)...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

"This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, [B]alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed."

So now Alternate Timelines are specifically(and officially) covered in the forum rules. That means that unless the thread starter specifically specifies GDS Darkseid, DS's feats from that arc are invalid under forum rules. [/B]

Originally posted by starking
That's not fair and in my eye, weak way to debate. Digi bailed you out on that one and NOT yourself. I told you what I thought and you basically did, was got Digimark to change the rules for you. I hope your proud of yourself, you got the moderator on YOUR side, to give you a hand. That's very sad that you had to do all of that, just to prove your point to a [b]15 year old. And I know this is what you did, you even told me you have spoken to Digi before. But thanks anyways for bumping this thread, just to have the last word. 🙂 [/B]

Originally posted by darthgoober
What do you mean a weak way to debate? The only question was whether or not the GDS fell under the heading of an alternate reality under forum rules and now we know. I knew that it DID in fact fall under that exact heading but YOU wanted it to be directly stated so that it would be "Official". Digi didn't "bail me out", he just clarified the forum rules because SOME people are to dense to understand what they mean exactly. Don't get all pissy with me because you were wrong...

Originally posted by starking
Now I wasn't getting "pissy" with you and didn't call you anything like "dense". Tell me this and be honest. Did you have a say so in Digi's decesion. Because I believe this new forum rule, may have something to do with your influence. The reason I see this ruling as unfair, is I believe it should be further debated instead of thrown out the window, just because someone gave a mod an ideal, that it should "invalid". There are probaly better explanations than mine, to why those feats should be canon. But if I'm wrong about you having something to do with this, then you have my humble apologies. The reason I felt you copped out, is I always thought you where a respected debator around here, and I would think someone of your level, would be able to "simply" direct me to how I'm wrong, and make the point for yourself, rather than ask for a mods opinion.

Now did I have something to do with it? Absolutely. As for what that something was, all I did was point out that people(never gave a specific name) were still trying to use feats from versions of characters from several thousand years into the future, and said that they would continue to do so until it was "Officially" addressed in the rules. Now I TRIED to convey the reasoning and spirit behind the rule to you numerous times, but you just wouldn't listen because it wasn't written in black and white. So rather than waste another couple of months going around in circles with you while you demanded proof that it was against the rules, I went to the source and had it addressed. Sorry but I just don't have the patience to beat my head against a wall when I know for a fact that I'm right when I can have the situation resolved with a PM or two.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You seem to be misunderstanding something, Digi didn't change the rules just to invalidate the GDS. The change is to address and clarify a standard on the subject. There's no need to further debate the subject because trying to include DS's feats from the GDS while excluding feats for characters in similar situations constitutes a double standard that's unacceptable if you're trying to retain any degree of impartiality. DS isn't a special case just because of who he is, as I said before either everyone is allowed to drink from the same water fountain or their not, and now DS is in line with everybody else.

Now did I have something to do with it? Absolutely. As for what that something was, all I did was point out that people(never gave a specific name) were still trying to use feats from versions of characters from several thousand years into the future, and said that they would continue to do so until it was "Officially" addressed in the rules. Now I TRIED to convey the reasoning and spirit behind the rule to you numerous times, but you just wouldn't listen because it wasn't written in black and white. So rather than waste another couple of months going around in circles with you while you demanded proof that it was against the rules, I went to the source and had it addressed. Sorry but I just don't have the patience to beat my head against a wall when I know for a fact that I'm right and I can have the situation resolved with a PM or two.

This why I felt dissapointed in you, if I was so wrong about what I was saying, then why could'nt you just counter my points, with your opinion? I'm not fond of that ideal because I don't see it as a rational standard, but instead a rule made because of ones influence over a moderator. And I don't recall asking for the rule being written in black in white.

Like I said, everything is not made equally, no matter what type of similarities they have.

Originally posted by starking

Here goes the character comparison again. You have to look at the fact that version of the character, was SPECIFICALLY stated to be weaker than himself in the past. Darkseid is no Silver Surfer, or even a Thanos. His character is very unique, in that certain events, such as the Crisis on infinite earths and zero hour, DID NOT effect him. He's doesn't even reside with the rest of the Dcu. You can't complain because you don't like the way things work for certain characters. All character's, rather their a Dc or a Marvel, are NOT made the same. While some have similar powersets, they work differently than others. For example Superman and Gladiator. While their abilities are almost identicle, they have orgins that differ from one another. Gladiator doesn't have the krptonite, or the red sun weakness. It's not a "double standard", because not all characters are made equally.[/B]

As for the rest of this...

Originally posted by starking
And that's exactly what's wrong with your argument. You only have the "it took place in another period of time, thus it's against rules", going for you. It would have been better for you to have taken a more scientific approach, to the debate that's in discussion. The problem with your theory is, very similar to what I've adressed above. Not all alternate history characters are the same. There are different circumstances for the matter. Such as the future incarnation of the character being WEAKER than his past self. Tell me this, if your supposed to be weaker in the future, and you peform a feat of great power, would you say your younger self COULDN'T do the same or even better? Is that even logical?

This why I felt dissapointed in you, if I was so wrong about what I was saying, then why could'nt you just counter my points, with your opinion? I'm not fond of that ideal because I don't see it as a rational standard, but instead a rule made because of ones influence over a moderator. And I don't recall asking for the rule being written in black in white.

Like I said, everything is not made equally, not matter what type of similarities they have.

Originally posted by darthgoober
We're not talking about the character's abilities, we're talking about the standard used to determine those abilities, and that standard SHOULD be the same regardless of the company or character in question. The rules are in place to keep things FAIR for all the characters involved with any specific debate.

As for the rest of this...

Makes sense to me.

Tough. Darkseid has lost his "Special Status" that his fans tried to give him. No matter WHAT the circumstances, the same standard and format of rules should be applied to ALL characters, that's just the way it is. You wanted it official before you'd accept it and now it is, so further discussion over it is unnecessary. I'm not going to go on and on justifying my actions, when all I did was to have an "unwritten" rule specifically addressed to avoid future confusion and bickering among forum members. If you have a problem with the "No Alternate Time Lines" thing than you've ALWAYS had a problem with the rule, you just didn't know it at the time because it wasn't specifically mentioned. The rules haven't actually changed at all, just the wording.

As for your little "bickering" statement, no one was doing such a thing. What I thought I was doing with you, was debating. I was being respectful towards you and I thought you where doing the same. You getting Digi to specify the alternate timeline rule, felt like a cheap blow to me. How would you like to think you had the upper hand in a debate, only to have some kind of random and baseless rule, rubbed in your face after like 5 days? Would you like for someone to bump a thread just to do that? I fell that you of all people having to go to those lengths, is just sad. What if your trying to push a rule on people, that's kinda.....FLAWED? What if someone comes along, and make some very good points on this subject? This discussion had some good potenial, and there are many ways to make a case for both sides. You let me down when you gave your take on something, to a person with authority over me. Like I said, if I was so wrong about what I was saying, then couldn't you counter me, with DIFFERENT examples rather than the "moderator said this" excuse? What if this rule turns out to be flawed?

And Goober, please don't put words in my mouth. I never asked for those to be official, or even specified.