Originally posted by masterbrucethat's funny last time i check both herc and thor were way stronger than than and superman needed help just to move the moon a little bit
Really?We know Superman can easily lift a couple quintillion tons (1 quintillion = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000)
Now let's look at Thor. He is pretty close in strength to Hercules, who probably maxes out at 250 tons. So Thor is nowhere near Superman's level of power.
Originally posted by masterbruce
Really?We know Superman can easily lift a couple quintillion tons (1 quintillion = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000)
Now let's look at Thor. He is pretty close in strength to Hercules, who probably maxes out at 250 tons. So Thor is nowhere near Superman's level of power.
Er that sounds like All-Star Superman who is stronger than regular superman. Yeah and he doesnt max out at 250. Thor has strength feats that go into millions or even billions of tons.
Originally posted by lando005
or it was pure brute strength
Well it was strength amped by the Odinforce.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
I wouldnt really expect much in the way of rational thinking from someone named "supermanluv" here, but come on.An Amateur Thor inexperienced with the Odin force remade the moon through force of will. How many moons has superman willed into existance again? none? fantastic! superman is nowhere close to the levels this incarnation of Thor was capable of.
Youre an idiot ! First of all my name has an ironic twist that you would probably get if you werent 15 years old. Second he didn't will it into existence, he repaired it Telekinetically. Its obvious that using energies on this level are too much for the King (dagarden) Thor to handle. Deal with it ! Superman displays powers on this level regularly.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Let me sum this up for you in a manner that you might understand. Thor is close to Supes strength WITHOUT the Odin Force(Supes is stronger, but not by a lot), so WITH the Odin Force I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption that he's stronger than Supes by a decent amount.Deal with it!
Is he really that close on his own though ? I mean he's struggled on various ocassions with weight FAR inferior to the masses Superman has moved ever since OWAW (Read Avengers and you'll see him struggling with buildings, million ton islands e.t.c.). And if you read his current respect thread, his greatest feat (WITHOUT Moljnir) was apparently creating enough pressure to knock a so called planet (That could have been smaller than Pluto for all we know) out of orbit. Not only was the feat performed with Hercules, the so called planet destroying pressure only destroyed a Plateau (How does that make any sense?). Also the feat was recognised by a narrator, not by a character making the feat even less cannocial.
His next greatest strength feat was lifting the Midguard Serpent, that wasn't even heavy enough to break through the crust, therefore could only weigh as much as the surface of the planet, which if you look up doesn't come close to the mass of objects the size of the moon, that also have the force of Solar gravity acting upon them, making them even harder to dislodge. The problem is when it comes to moving something as heavy as the moon out of its current orbit, you need enough force to send its entire mass (That is many times greater than the surface of the planet and therefore the midguard serpent) into Orbital Velocity. This literally increases its mass (therefore its weight) by over a factor of 100.
Thor has never really justified the claim that he is as strong as Post OWAW Superman. Moljnir has been shown to be on par, but not Thor himself. I doubt Thor is any stronger that Wonder Woman, who many agree is inferior to Superman.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Let me sum this up for you in a manner that you might understand. Thor is close to Supes strength WITHOUT the Odin Force(Supes is stronger, but not by a lot), so WITH the Odin Force I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption that he's stronger than Supes by a decent amount.Deal with it!
Another thing !!!! If you want to be a good debator dont ignore on pannel evidnce to satisfy a claim that supports your oppinion.
Let me show you in laymans terms ;
This is a claim:
Originally posted by darthgoober
Thor is close to Supes strength WITHOUT the Odin Force
This is on pannle evidence:
Originally posted by Supermanluv
Read the series the guy ko's himself by remaking the moon. That means he's nowhere near 'Galaxy shaking' power levels.
Obviously the two don't support each other, but which one do think a rational person would disregard. The On PANNEL evidence or the claim ? Hmmm let me think ???
😉
Originally posted by masterbruce
Really?We know Superman can easily lift a couple quintillion tons (1 quintillion = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000)
Now let's look at Thor. He is pretty close in strength to Hercules, who probably maxes out at 250 tons. So Thor is nowhere near Superman's level of power.
Where do you get the 250 tons max out from for Herc???
Immortal Herc is listed as incaluable strength and has never shown a limit even Mortal Herc has been shown lifting a bomb that was over a hundred tons and remarking that when he had all his power he would have hefted it with ease.
Among his feats is supporting heaven and earth on his shoulders, towing Manhatten island, walking along with an entire Quinjet full of people on his shoulders and not showing any effort etc etc.
So I'm interested at where you get this 250 ton max from, as hes never been observed to show a max?
Originally posted by Supermanluv
Another thing !!!! If you want to be a good debator dont ignore on pannel evidnce to satisfy a claim that supports your oppinion.Let me show you in laymans terms ;
This is a claim:
This is on pannle evidence:
Obviously the two don't support each other, but which one do think a rational person would disregard. The On PANNEL evidence or the claim ? Hmmm let me think ???
You do realise that Thor was inexperienced with this power and thus was overwhelmed by the difficulty it took to re-create the Moon
Heres an example
Mister Bloggs is given a GL Ring , his ring is identical to every other ring in every way/shape/form. Yet he can't stop time nor can he contain a supernova (which a GL ring has done before) he can fly (and get sick from never having flown before) but cannot do any of the previous feats.
Why ?
Because he is INEXPERIENCED !
Originally posted by Hercules
Where do you get the 250 tons max out from for Herc???Immortal Herc is listed as incaluable strength and has never shown a limit even Mortal Herc has been shown lifting a bomb that was over a hundred tons and remarking that when he had all his power he would have hefted it with ease.
Among his feats is supporting heaven and earth on his shoulders, towing Manhatten island, walking along with an entire Quinjet full of people on his shoulders and not showing any effort etc etc.
So I'm interested at where you get this 250 ton max from, as hes never been observed to show a max?
Iron Man is about 100 ton max. Now Hercules seems to be at most 2 or 3 times stronger than Iron Man, so I put him around 200 - 300 tons max.
Those feats you mentioned are absolutely ridiculous...having the strength to tow an island would literally mean that his pinky could lift more than a billion tons....with ease.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Thor has strength feats that go into millions or even billions of tons.
So are you saying Thor's strength is in the billions? Even so, he would be a trillion times weaker than Superman, whose strength is in the quintillions, or maybe just slightly less (ASS can do 200 quintillion, so I'm assuming regular supes can do 1 quintillion).
Also, you do realize that if you are saying THor is capable of trillion ton strength, that would mean that guys he regularly struggles against are also close to that level of power, which would not make sense.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Odin listed at like class 50. So do we really know it would increase his strength drastically?
EDIT: Just for clarifacation, I was talking to one of the Handbook writers about the feat of Hercules towing New York and he proclaimed it was simply Hercules just boosting. It's not canon. Need be, I can dig up the quote at alphawaves.com
Originally posted by masterbruce
So are you saying Thor's strength is in the billions? Even so, he would be a trillion times weaker than Superman, whose strength is in the quintillions, or maybe just slightly less (ASS can do 200 quintillion, so I'm assuming regular supes can do 1 quintillion).
Bro I get the feeling thats All Star Superman.....really.
Originally posted by masterbruce
Also, you do realize that if you are saying THor is capable of trillion ton strength, that would mean that guys he regularly struggles against are also close to that level of power, which would not make sense.
Like who and why not?
Please try to keep from letting the debate become an argument.
Rather than stating "Prove it or go home," you could instead say "I can disprove your statement by this, that, and the other." Otherwise, whoever says the former statement will just sound like a smarmy git.
If there seems to be a bias, then fight the bias with logic.
And if you're going to say something that won't be swallowed easily, try to at least provide evidence or a source...
Please continue with the debate with these things in mind.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Odin listed at like class 50. So do we really know it would increase his strength drastically?EDIT: Just for clarifacation, I was talking to one of the Handbook writers about the feat of Hercules towing New York and he proclaimed it was simply Hercules just boosting. It's not canon. Need be, I can dig up the quote at alphawaves.com
No actually he claimed to have LIFTED Manhatten when he was boasting, he did actually tow it.
Its in his respect thread I believe (both the towing and him claiming to have lifted it)
Originally posted by masterbruce
Iron Man is about 100 ton max. Now Hercules seems to be at most 2 or 3 times stronger than Iron Man, so I put him around 200 - 300 tons max.
Those feats you mentioned are absolutely ridiculous...having the strength to tow an island would literally mean that his pinky could lift more than a billion tons....with ease.
Again, you use the word "seems" that doesn't make it fact. If the feats are in print and can be read then no matter what your opinion is of them, doesn't negate the fact that they happened.
Hercules has been consistantly shown with feats that put him well in excess of most class 100's and Thor has been stated as his equal in strength, the two of them have shattered mountains arm wrestling each other.
So the 250 ton max is just your opinion, there is no fact to back it up and both Hercules and Thor have feats that put them well in excess of your 250 max theory.
Originally posted by Captain REX
Please try to keep from letting the debate become an argument.Rather than stating "Prove it or go home," you could instead say "I can disprove your statement by this, that, and the other." Otherwise, whoever says the former statement will just sound like a smarmy git.
If there seems to be a bias, then fight the bias with logic.
And if you're going to say something that won't be swallowed easily, try to at least provide evidence or a source...
Please continue with the debate with these things in mind.
Damn wish they had mods like this earlier on. Could have done with mod like this in some debates ive had.
Originally posted by Hercules
Again, you use the word "seems" that doesn't make it fact. If the feats are in print and can be read then no matter what your opinion is of them, doesn't negate the fact that they happened.Hercules has been consistantly shown with feats that put him well in excess of most class 100's and Thor has been stated as his equal in strength, the two of them have shattered mountains arm wrestling each other.
So the 250 ton max is just your opinion, there is no fact to back it up and both Hercules and Thor have feats that put them well in excess of your 250 max theory.
so...what do you think Hercules' strength is?
because if you truly believe he is capable of towing Manhattan, then you're in effect saying he is thousands of times stronger than Iron Man, Thing, or Colossus, or any other power guy. In fact, do you think all of those guys together could even budge Manhattan? No, they can't...no even close. So are you really telling me that Hercules is thousands of times stronger than these heavy weights?
Originally posted by Hercules
No actually he claimed to have LIFTED Manhatten when he was boasting, he did actually tow it.Its in his respect thread I believe (both the towing and him claiming to have lifted it)
No it was retconned to simply be him boosting, where he dragged it with the chain was stated by the writer of the handbook to be him boosting and didn't actually happened.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
No it was retconned to simply be him boosting, where he dragged it with the chain was stated by the writer of the handbook to be him boosting and didn't actually happened.
A writer of handbook, saying it is one thing, it being stated in a comic is another thing entirely.
Show me an issue number and a title with the retcon and I will take a look, as it is, he dragged Manhatten and then later bragged that he actually lifted it.
So he bragged about bragging? doesn't make sense to me and I need more proof than someone who writes handbooks saying it on an internet site.
Irregardless of that feat Hercules and Thor are both over a 250 ton max, Hercules has managed to lift Godzilla's foot and flip him, depending on incarnation Godzilla's weight is between 20,000 - 60,000 tons, he has also lifted a Giant Sequoia tree, the largest of which is said to weigh 1488 tons.
Hercules has also lifted a huge cylinder of Bedrock to rescue Thor,which made him seem like and ant underneath it and I could go on but this thread isn't for debating Hercules.
My point still stands, that Hercules has plenty of feats that put him well over a 250 ton max, as has Thor and stating that Herc and Thor have a 250 ton max when feats prove otherwise is false.
Now lets get back on topic shall we?
Originally posted by masterbruce
so...what do you think Hercules' strength is?because if you truly believe he is capable of towing Manhattan, then you're in effect saying he is thousands of times stronger than Iron Man, Thing, or Colossus, or any other power guy. In fact, do you think all of those guys together could even budge Manhattan? No, they can't...no even close. So are you really telling me that Hercules is thousands of times stronger than these heavy weights?
Look at my above post and check his respect thread, then come back to me, he is a lot stronger than Thing and Iron man and Colossus as is Thor.
See you are arguing with on panel and consistant evidence of both Thor and Herc lifting things far in excess of the three you just mentioned, when you consider that for the longest time Thing was a class 85 and now is a low class 100 and Colossus and Iron man are probably low to mid class 100's too, then Thor and Hercules have always far outweighed them in strength.
Thing has stood toe to toe with Hulk and Herc based on his fighting ability and durability and never say die attitude, he has never been on a par with them strength wise.
If you continnue to argue otherwise with no actual facts to back you up then that my friend is your look out not mine.
EDIT: as for my opinion of Herc strength level, Marvel say incalcuable and thats good enough for me. Now as I said, back to the debate at hand.