Superman vs. Captain America's Shield

Originally posted by Hercules
Look at my above post and check his respect thread, then come back to me, he is a lot stronger than Thing and Iron man and Colossus as is Thor.

See you are arguing with on panel and consistant evidence of both Thor and Herc lifting things far in excess of the three you just mentioned, when you consider that for the longest time Thing was a class 85 and now is a low class 100 and Colossus and Iron man are probably low to mid class 100's too, then Thor and Hercules have always far outweighed them in strength.

Thing has stood toe to toe with Hulk and Herc based on his fighting ability and durability and never say die attitude, he has never been on a par with them strength wise.

If you continnue to argue otherwise with no actual facts to back you up then that my friend is your look out not mine.

EDIT: as for my opinion of Herc strength level, Marvel say incalcuable and thats good enough for me. Now as I said, back to the debate at hand.

i would have to agree with hercules here. if it is stated on panel then there is no sence in arguing that it isnt so coz its on panel. and as for the writer saying that her was just boosted, unless retconed on panel it means nothing.

you guys are arguing things that have been proven on panel. its like me saying that superman cant really do that coz that would mean that all of the heavy slugers who have busted him some are around that level also. that would also mean that wounderwoman was also near that level coz many are saying that she can hang with supes a bit. all you guys are doing are being biased and fanboyish.

with that said, superman isnt doing squat to that shield. he's just gona break his hand 😆

Originally posted by Hercules
Look at my above post and check his respect thread, then come back to me, he is a lot stronger than Thing and Iron man and Colossus as is Thor.

See you are arguing with on panel and consistant evidence of both Thor and Herc lifting things far in excess of the three you just mentioned, when you consider that for the longest time Thing was a class 85 and now is a low class 100 and Colossus and Iron man are probably low to mid class 100's too, then Thor and Hercules have always far outweighed them in strength.

Thing has stood toe to toe with Hulk and Herc based on his fighting ability and durability and never say die attitude, he has never been on a par with them strength wise.

If you continnue to argue otherwise with no actual facts to back you up then that my friend is your look out not mine.

EDIT: as for my opinion of Herc strength level, Marvel say incalcuable and thats good enough for me. Now as I said, back to the debate at hand.

look, I have no problem with Herc and Thor being incalculable strength level...that's fine.

The problem is that then many of their fights don't make sense unless we are to believe people they fight against (think any class 100 character) are pretty close to incalculable strength levels themselves.

that's my only point. If you want Hercules to be a guy capable of towing the city of Manhattan, don't have him expound more than 1% or effort fighting guys like Thing or Colossus...lest you insult the intelligence of comic book readers.

Onpanel feats isn't the word of god....especially if its inconsistent.

Any bad writer without care for consistency can write up a ridiculous onpanel feat for a character...but that should not be the way that character is defined if the character is regularly not shown to be of such power.

Originally posted by masterbruce
look, I have no problem with Herc and Thor being incalculable strength level...that's fine.

The problem is that then many of their fights don't make sense unless we are to believe people they fight against (think any class 100 character) are pretty close to incalculable strength levels themselves.

that's my only point. If you want Hercules to be a guy capable of towing the city of Manhattan, don't have him expound more than 1% or effort fighting guys like Thing or Colossus...lest you insult the intelligence of comic book readers.

Thor has hefted a serpent that was close to the weight of the Earth. Hercules has towed manhattan with chains, held up the Earth on his back. Both of them have planet moving strength levels. Thor wouldn't have to expend much strength fighting Thing or Colossus, that would be a cakewalk. He holds himself back half the time when fighting on Earth.

Originally posted by Hercules
A writer of handbook, saying it is one thing, it being stated in a comic is another thing entirely.

Show me an issue number and a title with the retcon and I will take a look, as it is, he dragged Manhatten and then later bragged that he actually lifted it.

So he bragged about bragging? doesn't make sense to me and I need more proof than someone who writes handbooks saying it on an internet site.

It was not in the handbooks, but the writer of most of the handbook entries stated it's the general consensus of Marvel that it was Hercules bragging

I didn't say it was in an issue, but a Marvel employee a fairly important one stated it

http://forum.alphaflight.net/viewtopic.php?t=1158&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105

Originally posted by Loki
I'll check out the respect thread, but remember, the Handbooks have to factor in things like consistency and hyperbole - e.g. Hercules was once seen pulling the entire island of Manhattan into place using two chains from his back. This has been written off as a case where the comic was showing Herc's boastful account exaggerating his own feat (apart from anything else, even if Herc were that strong, where's he going to find chains that won't break, and where would he anchor them?)

About him: "And for the record, Loki=Stuart Vandal. I've just been Loki online (except where others have already claimed the name) since I started on the internet. Where plain old Loki is already taken, I'm either lokiofmidgaard or just plain Stuart".
===
You kidding? Hercules brags about everything he is always in a drunken stuper.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Onpanel feats isn't the word of god....especially if its inconsistent.

Any bad writer without care for consistency can write up a ridiculous onpanel feat for a character...but that should not be the way that character is defined if the character is regularly not shown to be of such power.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Onpanel feats isn't the word of god....especially if its inconsistent.

Any bad writer without care for consistency can write up a ridiculous onpanel feat for a character...but that should not be the way that character is defined if the character is regularly not shown to be of such power.

lol...honestly..if it was in a comic....Supes could probably rip the shield clean in half.

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
lol...honestly..if it was in a comic....Supes could probably rip the shield clean in half.

Originally posted by masterbruce
look, I have no problem with Herc and Thor being incalculable strength level...that's fine.

The problem is that then many of their fights don't make sense unless we are to believe people they fight against (think any class 100 character) are pretty close to incalculable strength levels themselves.

that's my only point. If you want Hercules to be a guy capable of towing the city of Manhattan, don't have him expound more than 1% or effort fighting guys like Thing or Colossus...lest you insult the intelligence of comic book readers.

Bro its a comicbook. I think Collosus and Thing have feats that go into 100,000s anyway. Furthermore if both Hercules and Thor had incalcubale strength they could both jump out of orbit at supersonic speed...neither of them can and they would probably shake the ground with every step they took....they dont.

....and yes if they had incalcuable strength the pressure waves caused by their muscles woudl be able to generate pressure waves that could knock people over.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
It was not in the handbooks, but the writer of most of the handbook entries stated it's the general consensus of Marvel that it was Hercules bragging

I didn't say it was in an issue, but a Marvel employee a fairly important one stated it

http://forum.alphaflight.net/viewtopic.php?t=1158&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105

About him: "And for the record, Loki=Stuart Vandal. I've just been Loki online (except where others have already claimed the name) since I started on the internet. Where plain old Loki is already taken, I'm either lokiofmidgaard or just plain Stuart".
===
You kidding? Hercules brags about everything he is always in a drunken stuper.

Like I said, I need more evidence than some guy on the internet who works for Marvel.

If its in a comic, its a retcon, if its not then it hasn't been retconed.

Again though you are missing the point, that was one of half a dozen feats I listed that puts Hercules over the 250 cap that masterbruce put on him.

Even if Marvel OFFICIALY retconned it in an issue, he still has the other feats and many more that put him over a 250 ton limit.

For instance we all know Sasquatch is over the class 90 odd that Marvel ranks him at because his feats speak for themselves and they are consistant.

Thats what I'm saying here, Herc has dozens of feats that put him over a 250 ton max. That was my one and only point until you started saying that it had been retconned because someone who works for marvel said so.

Give me on panel evidence in an issue and I will conceed, after all Hercules has lots of other feats to draw off and it was one in a list not the only one. 😉

Originally posted by Hercules
Like I said, I need more evidence than some guy on the internet who works for Marvel.

If its in a comic, its a retcon, if its not then it hasn't been retconed.

Again though you are missing the point, that was one of half a dozen feats I listed that puts Hercules over the 250 cap that masterbruce put on him.

Even if Marvel OFFICIALY retconned it in an issue, he still has the other feats and many more that put him over a 250 ton limit.

For instance we all know Sasquatch is over the class 90 odd that Marvel ranks him at because his feats speak for themselves and they are consistant.

Thats what I'm saying here, Herc has dozens of feats that put him over a 250 ton max. That was my one and only point until you started saying that it had been retconned because someone who works for marvel said so.

Give me on panel evidence in an issue and I will conceed, after all Hercules has lots of other feats to draw off and it was one in a list not the only one. 😉

Were not calling you out on Whether Herc is over 250 Hercules, just that the Manhatten feat is bunk.

Originally posted by masterbruce
look, I have no problem with Herc and Thor being incalculable strength level...that's fine.

The problem is that then many of their fights don't make sense unless we are to believe people they fight against (think any class 100 character) are pretty close to incalculable strength levels themselves.

that's my only point. If you want Hercules to be a guy capable of towing the city of Manhattan, don't have him expound more than 1% or effort fighting guys like Thing or Colossus...lest you insult the intelligence of comic book readers.

Its a COMIC book!

Colossus at class 70 when he was a teen gave Gladiator a tussle, the same Gladiator who tows freakin planets!

Thor has a rogues gallery of guys no where near his strength level who have given him trouble, Thing has hurt Cyborg Superman in a crossover, it makes a good story.

So lets see, you would like to see a comic book fight go like this..."Hercules knocks the bozo out with one shot" [/endfight]

Why you are fixating on the towing of Manhatten thing is beyond me, its one feat of many that puts him over the limit you placed on him.

You put a limit on a character based on your opinion and stated it like it was a fact, I simply pointed out that Herc has dozens of feats that puts him over that limit, hell as Alf has said, Thing and Colossus both have feats that put them close or over that limit you placed on Hercules and Thor.

Class 100 = people who can lift in excess of 100 tons, all class 100's are not the same.

Artistic licence plays a big part in comic book fights, thats why we have a set of KMC rules that try to be more grounded.

Onpanel feats isn't the word of god....especially if its inconsistent.

Any bad writer without care for consistency can write up a ridiculous onpanel feat for a character...but that should not be the way that character is defined if the character is regularly not shown to be of such power.

Well, Hercules feats are not inconsistant, when you consider Marvel has confirmed that Hercules is the ancient God of myth, the same one that held up Heaven and earth, Hercules WHOLE deal is that he has amazing strength.

Thats it, thats his power, thats ALL he does, Manhatten may be a high end feat but he has low end feats that blow your 250 ton limit out of the water, you have nothing to base you limit on other than he "seems" to be 2 or 3 times stronger than Iron Man in your opinion.

So instead of conceeding that there is consistant on panel evidence to suggest he is way above your cap, you fixate on one feat and then blame bad writing.

Lots of different writers have written Hercules and most of them have shown him with strength feats that place him as a very high class 100 who has feats that do put him into the thousands of tons strength wise.

How is that either bad writing or inconsistant? one feat you can write off as PIS but how many does he have to have before you consider it not PIS?

two, three, ten, how many?

Thor and Hercules have feats that put them over the limit YOU placed on them, accept that and move on!

Originally posted by grey fox
Were not calling you out on Whether Herc is over 250 Hercules, just that the Manhatten feat is bunk.

I like I said, if it has been retconned in Marvel continuity, I will conceed the feat.

So far the only evidence I have been shown is someone on a forum, it was one in a list of feats I posted.

At any rate even if you want to drop the Manhattan feat Thor and Hercules fighting each over and causing world wide tremors is even worse. Hell I think it even said that they could have made the planet go out of orbit. *shrug* Its a comicbook dont really care.

No one, I mean No messes with Caps Shield.

Originally posted by Hercules
Like I said, I need more evidence than some guy on the internet who works for Marvel.

If its in a comic, its a retcon, if its not then it hasn't been retconed.

Again though you are missing the point, that was one of half a dozen feats I listed that puts Hercules over the 250 cap that masterbruce put on him.

Even if Marvel OFFICIALY retconned it in an issue, he still has the other feats and many more that put him over a 250 ton limit.

For instance we all know Sasquatch is over the class 90 odd that Marvel ranks him at because his feats speak for themselves and they are consistant.

Thats what I'm saying here, Herc has dozens of feats that put him over a 250 ton max. That was my one and only point until you started saying that it had been retconned because someone who works for marvel said so.

Give me on panel evidence in an issue and I will conceed, after all Hercules has lots of other feats to draw off and it was one in a list not the only one. 😉

Uuuuuh...what? I'm not debating if Hercules can lift 250 tons, I know he can do more..far more and never did I say otherwise. Hell Sasquatch has tossed 250 tons 1000 feet with ease.

My point was what grey fox said

Originally posted by grey fox
Were not calling you out on Whether Herc is over 250 Hercules, just that the Manhatten feat is bunk.

Originally posted by masterbruce
maybe it was more his magic that effected the shield's properties

Tell these idiots that you don't know me please.

IMO, if anyone can physically destroy that shield...it would be Superman.

Originally posted by KMC_Drifter
IMO, if anyone can physically destroy that shield...it would be Superman.

sups has a better chance of denting admantium than he ever has of doing anything to that shield