Originally posted by Robtard
BlueDMighty, I am curious to you answer?
Let me ask you a question, which punishments (if any) should the six face, and why, in your opinion?' [/B]
GREAT question.
The boys should have been charged with assault and battery, and tried in a juvenile court.
If found guilty, they should have been placed in JV detention where they would at least be allowed to continue they're education.
It really is amazing to me how much race is influencing judgment.
This reminds me of an argument I heard about feminist movement in the Romantic era: If a woman can get an education but does not is her decision based on her own individuality or because she was cultivated to be a "lady?"
This is the sort of basis that race relations can be seen through.
Can you really blame racists or racial tension on the individual?
And can the opinion of those who have never experienced racism really be held as valid?
I keep seeing the words do not matter bullshit, but if I loved a woman and expressed that and she replied, "I do not love you," it would **** me up. It is not the words, duh. It is the meaning behind them and the intention of words.
To just say you should not care about what anyone says is negligent to social circumstances if EVERYONE is under tension of whatever situation.
For those that don't know, or haven't bothered to do any research BEFORE commenting.
Here is a detailed time line of the events that happened in Jena over the past year:
-August 31, 2006- A black student asks permission to sit under the "white tree." A school administrator replies, "you can sit wherever you want."
-September 1, 2006- Three nooses in school colors are found hanging from the "white tree."
-September 7, 2006- The three students responsible for hanging the nooses were found. The principal recommends them for expulsion.
-September 8, 2006- The superintendent overruled the Principal's decision, calling it a harmless prank. The responsible students were instead suspended.
-(no confirmed date available)- The District Attorney and several police officers came out to the school for an impromptu assembly after several reports of "trouble" at the school. The District Attorney told the students that if they didn't stop making a fuss about the "innocent prank… I can be your best friend or your worst enemy. I can take your lives away with a stroke of my pen."
-November 30, 2006- A fire burns down the main academic building of Jena High School. Investigators ruled that it was arson.
-December 1, 2006- A black student, Robert Bailey, attends a "white party," is beaten and has a bottle broken over his head. One person was later charged with simple battery for the beating and received probation.
-December 2, 2006- A fight is reported at the Gotta Go convenience store outside of Jena. Investigators say three students beat a man and took his shotgun. The students, one of whom was Robert Bailey- the victim of the beating at the party the previous night, say the man, who was also at the party, pulled a sawed off shot gun on the students. They wrestled the gun away from him and ran away. (The students were later charged with theft of the firearm, second-degree robbery, and disturbing the peace.)
-December 4, 2006- White student, Justin Barker, was allegedly with the students responsible for hanging the nooses, saying racial slurs and taunting Robert Bailey about being beaten up at the party on December first. Later, he was knocked unconscious (either by the first punch or from hitting the ground), punched, and kicked while he was down by a group of black students. An ambulance was called. Barker was conscious by the time it arrived. He was taken to the hospital, treated and released within three hours for injuries to his ears, face, and eyes. Barker was well enough to attend a school ring ceremony later that night.
December 5-6, 2006- Six black students are arrested and charged with aggravated second-degree battery. They were:
Robert Bailey Jr, age 17. Bail amount: $138,000.
Theo Shaw, age 17. Bail amount: $130,000.
Carwin Jones, age 18. Bail amount: $100,000.
Bryant Purvis, age 17. Bail amount: $70,000.
Mychal Bell, age 16. Bail amount: $90,000.
An unnamed minor.
-December 7, 2006- The District Attorney announces that the charges against all six have been upgraded to attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy to commit second-degree murder.
-December 15, 2006- It is announced that Mychal Bell, age 16, will be charged as an adult.
-January 3, 2007- Purvis, Jones, and the unnamed juvenile post bail and are released from jail.
-January 6, 2007- Relatives announced that all six students involved in the fight (dubbed the "Jena 6"😉 have been expelled from school.
-May 2, 2007- Robert Bailey Jr. is also released from jail. Mychal Bell and Theo Shaw remain incarcerated.
-May 10, 2007- The victim of the Dec. 4 fight, Justin Barker, is arrested for bringing a gun onto the Jena High School campus. The gun was found in his truck.
-June 25, 2007- Mychal Bell's trial begins. The District Attorney reduced the charges against Bell to second-degree aggravated battery and conspiracy to commit aggravated battery, both of which are still felonies. (In the state of Louisiana, for something to be considered aggravated battery a deadly weapon must be used. The District Attorney said the deadly weapons in this case were the shoes he was wearing.)
-June 26, 2007- None of the 50 people who show up for jury duty are black. The 6 person jury selected is an all-white jury. There are allegations that all of the jury members knew a witness expected to be called during the trial. One jury member was a high school classmate of the District Attorney, another is friends with the mother of the victim, Justin Barker.
-June 27, 2007- The prosecutor called 17 witnesses, who all had varying testimonies. Some said they didn't see Bell hit Baker. Some said they saw Bell kick the victim. The victim, Justin Barker, said he didn't see anything and didn't know if Bell was one of the people who hit him.
-Bell was represented by a court appointed public defender, Blane Williams. The public defender did not call a single witness.
-Bell's parents were not allowed to be in the courtroom during the proceedings because they were listed as potential witnesses by their son's attorney. They were never called to testify.
-June 28, 2007- The jury deliberated for fewer than three hours and found Bell guilty on the charges of second degree battery and conspiracy to commit second degree battery. With this sentence, he could face up to 221/2 years in prison.
-August 2007- Civil rights groups and activists such as the American Civil Liberties Union, Rev. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Martin Luther King III get involved. They visited Jena, held rallies, and helped Bell get new representation for an appeal before he is supposed to be sentenced.
-August 15, 2007- Bell's attorneys file a motion to void his conviction.
-August 16, 2007- One of Bell's attorneys says the case should be tried in juvenile court instead of adult court.
-August 24, 2007- A judge denies Mychal Bell bond because of four previous incidents, including two previous simple battery charges, he has on his record.
-August 29, 2007- "Free the Jena 6" T-shirts are banned from being worn at Jena High School.
-September 4, 2007- A judge vacated the conspiracy to commit aggravated battery charge against Bell. It will be handled in juvenile court. The second-degree aggravated assault charge remains. Bell will now only face a maximum of 15 year in prison rather than 221/2.
-The charges against Carwin Jones and Theo Shaw were also reduced to second-degree aggravated battery and conspiracy to commit second-degree aggravated battery.
-September 14, 2007- A state appeals court in Louisiana throws out the only remaining conviction against Mychal Bell, saying that he should not have been tried as an adult on the charge of aggravated battery.
Originally posted by chithappensGee thanks...
And can the opinion of those who have never experienced racism really be held as valid?
Originally posted by BlueDMighty
-August 31, 2006- A black student asks permission to sit under the "white tree." A school administrator replies, "you can sit wherever you want."
As far as I'm concerned, this is where the problem began. (figuratively, rather than literally) Obviously, the fact that only white students were sitting under the tree was a topic of debate, disgust and outrage among the black students. While I can understand that most people will think the black student did the "responsible" thing by asking, I have a problem with him feeling he had to ask, before they sat under the tree. It's apparent, to me at least, that the school official, when asked, answered the question with a little bit of suprise. But I'm not sure if he was suprised the student asked or if he was suprised the student felt the need to ask for permission. But, given everything that has transpired in the situation since that point, I can't imagine the school officials weren't aware of the racial tension that, apparently, permeates the whole damned town.
I'd have preferred they walked over to that tree and sat down, without asking. If that meant a full-on race brawl as a result, then so be it. It's a hell of a lot better than the long and drawn out, back-and-forth, gang-on-gang mentality that has been demonstrated. It might be a stretch in comparing the two events, but I seriously doubt Rosa Parks asked permission before she refused to sit in the back of the bus.
And it's appallingly clear that the deck seems to have been seriously stacked against the black students in this entire situation.
Terms like Racist and Bigot
Are used and thrown around alot in here (guilty as charged)
However,
I think the good majority of people around here are actually decent people, That genuinely want a better world.
We may not all agree at times but I think that, overall, understanding should be our real goal.
By the way in case anybody missed it,
"Excessive Force" has just "Crossed Over".
No JUSTICE
Don't SLEEP ❌
Originally posted by Devil King
As far as I'm concerned, this is where the problem began. (figuratively, rather than literally) Obviously, the fact that only white students were sitting under the tree was a topic of debate, disgust and outrage among the black students. While I can understand that most people will think the black student did the "responsible" thing by asking, I have a problem with him feeling he had to ask, before they sat under the tree. It's apparent, to me at least, that the school official, when asked, answered the question with a little bit of suprise. But I'm not sure if he was suprised the student asked or if he was suprised the student felt the need to ask for permission. But, given everything that has transpired in the situation since that point, I can't imagine the school officials weren't aware of the racial tension that, apparently, permeates the whole damned town.I'd have preferred they walked over to that tree and sat down, without asking. If that meant a full-on race brawl as a result, then so be it. It's a hell of a lot better than the long and drawn out, back-and-forth, gang-on-gang mentality that has been demonstrated. It might be a stretch in comparing the two events, but I seriously doubt Rosa Parks asked permission before she refused to sit in the back of the bus.
And it's appallingly clear that the deck seems to have been seriously stacked [b]against
the black students in this entire situation. [/B]
don't you realize that if it wasn't black vs. white, it would be black vs. black or white vs. white, if you doubt that, look at the history of both africa and europe.
you act as if whites were never lynched...
and look at this pic of a public hanging in Iran, do you think the man that's alive really cares? do you think the ones hung care if it was racial or related to family name or religion?
there are so many reasons to execute ppl or crucify them, it doesn't have to be black/white..and history proves it.
Originally posted by Robtard
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there (also) a strong sentiment that the "6" should be set free and the charges be dropped?
Indeed there was. A very strong sentiment. In fact, it was the first side to garner major public attention. (a lot of people in this country would say that's the "liberal media" at work, but it's more a matter of ratings than it is true media attention) But, in this case, at least, I feel it was because the most people saw it for the total circus it was at that moment. Maybe that has something to do with race, maybe not. But these charges need not be dropped. Leveled fairly, perhaps; but not dropped. Their motivation or outrage doesn't justify what they did. But, that goes for the white kids, too.
Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
don't you realize that if it wasn't black vs. white, it would be black vs. black or white vs. white, if you doubt that, look at the history of both africa and europe.you act as if whites were never lynched...
and look at this pic of a public hanging in Iran, do you think the man that's alive really cares? do you think the ones hung care if it was racial or related to family name or religion?
there are so many reasons to execute ppl or crucify them, it doesn't have to be black/white..and history proves it.
No, I don't act. What history proves is that humans are willing to gang up and kill each other for any number of banal reasons. What ever point you have to make with this persona of being black and hating it or soul switching, is wasted on me. Race wasn't the motivating factor of my comments or of my opinion of the situation as it stands. The situation really kind of speaks for itself.
I'm sure there are any number of people who will address your irrelevant comments under the presmise that they don't get your mindless bable, but I'm not interested in feeding the troll.
Originally posted by Devil King
One could almost ask the same question of this:We can't assume there's only one race involved in this fiasco of a situation.
Im not saying we should. I dont want to piss Robtard off again but I just get the impression some people think that the blacks were not hard done by and it seems that they are eager to prove if they can that everything is fair.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Im not saying we should. I dont want to piss Robtard off again but I just get the impression some people think that the blacks were not hard done by and it seems that they are eager to prove if they can that everything is fair.
I understand you weren't. But my point is simply that, in such an obvious racial situation, one can't discount the "institutionalized" culpability of one system v. another. What either would consider an affront to their "values" is at the root of the issue; and neither would like to consider the fact that their value systems broke down and allowed for such stupidity.
Originally posted by Devil King
I understand you weren't. But my point is simply that, in such an obvious racial situation, one can't discount the "institutionalized" culpability of one system v. another. What either would consider an affront to their "values" is at the root of the issue; and neither would like to consider the fact that their value systems broke down and allowed for such stupidity.
Yeah ok thats true but at the end of the day the institution should have done what they were supposed to do in the first place.