Originally posted by Alfheim
My point is that if we were not colonised in the first place we would not have to pay a debt....and thats not our fault. 😐
Not sure that was your point as you made a point ot say "coverted to Christianity" as a negative implication, anyhow.
...if the first humans didn't wander out of Africa to populate the rest of the world "you", wouldn't probably be in debt either. You're making large assumptions.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but you wouldnt say that if you were the father, period. Eventhough the kids were stupid you would be pissed at the dealer for selling them the guns and making the situation worse.(for the sake of argument the gun dealer knew they used to argue violently)You can distance yourself because your not involved but in reality you would be pissed.
So we agree it is a bullshit argument and we disregard it in level headed debate, right?
We are sorry for his loss, but we, as objective observers realize that not the arms dealer is to blame.
Good.
Originally posted by Robtard
...and if the first humans didn't wander out of Africa to populate the rest of the world "you", wouldn't probably be in debt either. You're making large assumptions.
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt.asp
The legacy of colonialism — for example, the developing countries’ debt is partly the result of the unjust transfer to them of the debts of the colonizing states, in billions of dollars, at very high interest rates.
So this isnt true?
Originally posted by Alfheim
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt.aspThe legacy of colonialism — for example, the developing countries’ debt is partly the result of the unjust transfer to them of the debts of the colonizing states, in billions of dollars, at very high interest rates.
So this isnt true?
"Debt has crippled many developing countries. Often based on loans taken out by prior rulers and dictators (many of which various Western nations put into power to suit their interests), millions face poorer and poorer living standards as precious resources are diverted to debt repayment."
...and it goes back to what I said a few pages back when I entered the conversation. The African countries need to take the first steps, otherwise the West won't do a thing.
Originally posted by Bardock42
So we agree it is a bullshit argument and we disregard it in level headed debate, right?
No that just trying to deny that you wouldnt be pissed at the gun dealer the fcat of the matter is you would be pissed.
Originally posted by Bardock42
We are sorry for his loss, but we, as objective observers realize that not the arms dealer is to blame.
No the children are to blame and so is the dealer, why did he sell them arms knowing full well they would probably killl each other? Its wrong...hell you can go to jail for **** like that. So i guess the law is bull**** to in this instance.
Originally posted by Robtard
"Debt has crippled many developing countries. Often based on loans taken out by prior rulers and dictators (many of which various Western nations put into power to suit their interests), millions face poorer and poorer living standards as precious resources are diverted to debt repayment."...and it goes back to what I said a few pages back when I entered the conversation. The African countries need to take the first steps, otherwise the West won't do a thing.
Did I anywhere in my post say that African rulers were innocent? Does that change the fact that the transfer of debt at very high interest rates is wrong as well? Doesnt your post say that these rulesr were put there by the West as well?
Originally posted by AlfheimThen your argument about us owing them is bullshit.
My point is that if we were not colonised in the first place we would not have to pay a debt....and thats not our fault. 😐Yeah but it would help;
Doesnt change the fcat that Europe are partially responsible for the debt.
So what if we're responcible?! Vikings are responcible for rape and pillaging in the UK 1000 years ago but does that mean that every Norweigan, Swede and Dane should give us money? Oh, and what about the Romans, Saxons and Normans? Do France, Spain and Italy owe us aswell? COME ON!
Originally posted by AlfheimI would be. I am not denying it.
No that just trying to deny that you wouldnt be pissed at the gun dealer the fcat of the matter is you would be pissed.No the children are to blame and so is the dealer, why did he sell them arms knowing full well they would probably killl each other? Its wrong...hell you can go to jail for **** like that. So i guess the law is bull**** to in this instance.
There's a reason why judges look at cases objectively instead of letting the fathers of "victims" decide what's going to happen. Your argument wins NOTHING by me admitting that I would be pissed. You still disregard my point though.
He sold them because they wanted them. Free will. He has imo nothing to blame himself about. He is not responsible, he just did his job.
Alfheim, I am in no way shape or form, responsible for the actions of my forefathers. I will NOT pay for things that I did not do...case closed...end of story...not if, ands, or buts about it.
Like I said, aids is actually increasing in Sub-Saharan Africa despite education, and resource efforts being pushed. I am very sure that if you asked any random person in Chad how to avoid HIV infection, they would give you some sort of correct answer. Why can't this be natural selection? Why can't mother nature run its course? We ARE educating them...AND giving resources to them such as condoms. SHouldn't anything that happens after that take its natural course? (Meaning if the societal norms are impeding their survival, then mother nature is eliminating the weak...their specific weakness is social in origin.)
My point earlier is that we can "try" to help a people all we want, but until the people pull their heads out of their ass and stop being so barbaric and immature, they deserve everything they get. Case in point, Iraq. I am sure more money has been poured into Iraq these last 5 years than Africa...maybe. (I don't have the African numbers) Yet Iraq's situation hasn't improved. That is same the same for ANY country.
Robtard is right, Africa has plenty of resources but dictators and evil men from other countries have control over that so the people remain poor.
Like I said before, the people have to go in business for themselves to survive because there are places that no resources or farming can be had.
Again, I will NOT pay for the things that my forefathers did, my ancestors owned NO slaves. (All the way back to the 17th Century, even my Colonial Ancestor did not own slaves.)
Originally posted by lord xyz
Then your argument about us owing them is bullshit.So what if we're responcible?! Vikings are responcible for rape and pillaging in the UK 1000 years ago but does that mean that every Norweigan, Swede and Dane should give us money? Oh, and what about the Romans, Saxons and Normans? Do France, Spain and Italy owe us aswell? COME ON!
Thats a bullshit argument because people arent affected by it today. Crap.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I would be. I am not denying it.There's a reason why judges look at cases objectively instead of letting the fathers of "victims" decide what's going to happen. Your argument wins NOTHING by me admitting that I would be pissed. You still disregard my point though.
He sold them because they wanted them. Free will. He has imo nothing to blame himself about. He is not responsible, he just did his job.
Well not its not just that you would be pissed, by law you can go to jail for **** like that if somebody sells somebody a product knowing full well they can die if they buy it. I think they call **** like that manslaughter.
Hell isnt there a law against selling guns to certain types of people...whys that?
Originally posted by dadudemon
Alfheim, I am in no way shape or form, responsible for the actions of my forefathers. I will NOT pay for things that I did not do...case closed...end of story...not if, ands, or buts about it.
Thats good because I never asked you to.
Originally posted by AlfheimDid I anywhere in my post say that African rulers were innocent? Does that change the fact that the transfer of debt at very high interest rates is wrong as well? Doesnt your post say that these rulesr were put there by the West as well?
...and from the very start I have agreed that the West has ****ed over and continues to **** over many a African nation. But my point is, Africa needs to stop it, or at least take the first steps, not the West.
Originally posted by Robtard
...and from the very start I have agreed that the West has ****ed over and continues to **** over many a African nation. But my point is, Africa needs to stop it, or at least take the first steps, not the West.
Ok I agree, but im getting the impression some people believe that they dont have to do anything regardless.
Originally posted by Robtard
...and from the very start I have agreed that the West has ****ed over and continues to **** over many a African nation. But my point is, Africa needs to stop it, or at least take the first steps, not the West.
That isn't the answer either. Corruption has to be squelched as well. Remove the criminal activities on "our" end and then add a dash of positive influence and resources and IF the people chose to, they would improve themselves.
Originally posted by dadudemon
That isn't the answer either. Corruption has to be squelched as well. Remove the criminal activities on "our" end and then add a dash of positive influence and resources and IF the people chose to, they would improve themselves.
I also agree with this.
Originally posted by Robtard
Then why do you continue to spout off that the West needs to and has an obligation to "fix" Africa?
Well they do..but obvously if Africans dont want to help themselves they cant do ****, but at the same time all im saying is that I think there are certain things that the West does that make it harder for them to sort themslves out....but also Africans **** themselves as well.
Originally posted by dadudemon
That isn't the answer either. Corruption has to be squelched as well. Remove the criminal activities on "our" end and then add a dash of positive influence and resources and IF the people chose to, they would improve themselves.
That won't matter until the African nations get their shit together, there will always be corruption trying to gain an angle.
Originally posted by AlfheimThat's not my point. If you go back far enough everyone kinda ****ed everyone else over, that's how nature works. Don't you get it? Besides, we need to forget about what happened in the past, look at my title, we need to look at the future. Because if we don't, we might not have one.
Thats a bullshit argument because people arent affected by it today. Crap.
Originally posted by Robtard
That won't matter until the African nations get their shit together, there will always be corruption trying to gain an angle.
It would be naive to think that ALL corruption could be eliminated. I am referring to the major sources of corruptions such as arms dealing and corporations having their money grabbing hands so far up the ass of Africa that they are pulling the food out of the mouth of the Africans before they get a chance to even chew their food.
Originally posted by dadudemonNo. It's just not our problem. I agree we should fight corruption in our countries. But even if we don't, Africa has to get their shit together themselves.
That isn't the answer either. Corruption has to be squelched as well. Remove the criminal activities on "our" end and then add a dash of positive influence and resources and IF the people chose to, they would improve themselves.
Originally posted by AlfheimPretty sure you can't get prosecuted for manslaughter by legally selling weapons.
Thats a bullshit argument because people arent affected by it today. Crap.Well not its not just that you would be pissed, by law you can go to jail for **** like that if somebody sells somebody a product knowing full well they can die if they buy it. I think they call **** like that manslaughter.
Hell isnt there a law against selling guns to certain types of people...whys that?
Thats good because I never asked you to.
Originally posted by Bardock42
No. It's just not our problem. I agree we should fight corruption in our countries. But even if we don't, Africa has to get their shit together themselves.Pretty sure you can't get prosecuted for manslaughter by legally selling weapons.
PFFFTTT! Does the name Terry Nichols ring a bell? 🙄
Originally posted by lord xyz
That's not my point. If you go back far enough everyone kinda ****ed everyone else over, that's how nature works. Don't you get it?
I get it, your point isnt a good one.
Originally posted by lord xyz
Besides, we need to forget about what happened in the past, look at my title, we need to look at the future. Because if we don't, we might not have one.
Again thats very niave. You dont focus on the past a 100 percent but if you look at the past it helps you understand why things are the way they are today. If your going to use that argument I could say that if somebody beats you up and cripples you that they shouldnt pay damages because its in the past...get it? You dont have a point.