Let's solve the AIDs pandemic in Africa

Originally posted by Bardock42
I agree with that. Doesn't relate to my point though.

Why not?

Originally posted by Bardock42

They wouldn't have the higher standard of living we had if they never met Europeans. Agree?

Well actually Europeans wouldnt have had the standard of living they have now if they hadnt met Arabs and Africans. 😎 There is alot science which people use today which Europe got from the Islamic civilization which Africa was a part of.

I dunno if Africans hadnt met Europeans they would have probably been fine, I guess.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Odd conclusion.

You did say why should I help smelly black people?

Originally posted by Bardock42

People don't deserve help for helps sake. If it makes you feel good to help them, go ahead, have fun. But don't require people that don't want to help them to do though. And you shouldn't feel better than them, you aren't just cause you use your money in different ways.

No they dont but you refered to people in Africa as smelly black people implying they dont need help.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Why not?

Well actually Europeans wouldnt have had the standard of living they have now if they hadnt met Arabs and Africans. 😎 There is alot science which people use today which Europe got from the Islamic civilization which Africa was a part of.

I dunno if Africans hadnt met Europeans they would have probably been fine, I guess.

You did say why should I help smelly black people?

No they dont but you refered to people in Africa as smelly black people implying they dont need help.

Yeah, but they made something out of it themselves.

How fine? Living in huts like many still do, just all?

Originally posted by Alfheim

No they dont but you refered to people in Africa as smelly black people implying they dont need help.

I did that a few replies back, it was a joke reply and you concluded it from a totally different quote.

Originally posted by Bardock42
What do you suppose should "we" do. And why should "we" do it?

I propose we let them work for us, and in return we give them the resources they need. Over time, they won't need to work for us, because they would be able to supply themselves, then work for themselves. It's a little distorted I know, but I'm not a politician. It might not work, but I'd rather we try, than do nothing.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Because selling weapons has nothing to do with the standard of living now.

Well.

1. Yes it does war doesnt increase your standard of living does it.
2. Remember for the second time now....I mentioned that its not just the selling of weapons but the economics is unfair as welll. It seems your just focusing on the weapons. 🤨

Originally posted by Bardock42

Yeah, but they made something out of it themselves.

Yes thats why it works both ways.

Originally posted by Bardock42

How fine? Living in huts like many still do, just all?

Thats just a stereotype. My tribe is the Mandingo did you know they traveled to America before Columbus. Thats just something you've been taught that African people lived in mud huts. My ancestors were part of the Islamic Empire hell they were so rich they caused masive inflation.

You going to acknowledge this bit or what?

"Well actually Europeans wouldnt have had the standard of living they have now if they hadnt met Arabs and Africans. cool There is alot science which people use today which Europe got from the Islamic civilization which Africa was a part of. "

Originally posted by Bardock42
I did that a few replies back, it was a joke reply

Im telepathic?

Originally posted by Bardock42

and you concluded it from a totally different quote.

So what your telling me im taking it out of context? If a person didnt know you were joking it sounded racist.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, that's your idea, but I criticize them because I am for the freedom of people. I think it is bad to do bad things to do to people, I also think it is bad to do "good" things to people for only their sake.

So infringing on one's freedom is wrong, but allowing poverty to continue isn't ? I dont get it.

And, I'm not making a personal attack on you by any means, I do like you as a poster. I am just trying to understand how you think....cuz it certainly boggles me, and apparently I'm not the only person who thinks you are wrong here.

Originally posted by Bardock42
People should not be put in danger and pain for no reason, but they shouldn't be pampered and be rewarded for things they don't deserve.

Being pulled out of poverty and disease isn't exactly being "pampered" and "rewarded".

And what in your mind qualifies one as deserving of help ?

Originally posted by Bardock42
There is a difference between doing bad deeds and being required to do good deeds. It's not the same thing. I am not being hypocritical just because my approach is different to yours.

You are not required to do good deeds, but to do evil is just as bad as to see evil being done and to do nothing about it.

By doing nothing, you are enabling the wrong to continue. Your silence supports it. One day, you will understand that.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Don't think so. But even if I did. By what right would I beg for it?

Yes they suffer, but how should we even help? Our countries shouldn't use them, but why should we help them and how?

But we have too much resources, remember? We are advanced enough to look after ourselves and others. So why can't we give our money to them, seeing as we don't need it?

Originally posted by Alfheim

"Well actually Europeans wouldnt have had the standard of living they have now if they hadnt met Arabs and Africans. cool There is alot science which people use today which Europe got from the Islamic civilization which Africa was a part of. "

Anyhow, the point stands that the arguments for helping Africa are some sort of guilt or conscience things. Those are merely moral arguments.

Originally posted by parenthesis
...

But we have too much resources, remember? We are advanced enough to look after ourselves and others. So why can't we give our money to them, seeing as we don't need it?

We have no poverty in our countries?

When did that happen?

Originally posted by Bardock42
I did.

Anyhow, the point stands that the arguments for helping Africa are some sort of guilt or conscience things. Those are merely moral arguments.

You are obviously blind to something, and please don't take it as offense, but the rest of us can see something that you just aren't seeing.

Let me ask you something. And really think about it before you respond:

Let's say there is a poor beggar on the street. He has five dollars, his last five left. A robber comes and takes away his money.

Now, another person passes by. Let's say a woman. She has five dollars in her pocket. She doesn't really need it. She sees the beggar who has no money and no food. She decides to do nothing, to just pass him by, even though she has money that she doesn't need, which she could easily give him to help him out for just another day.

Who is worse in your opinion ? The robber or the woman ? And why ?

Originally posted by Bardock42
I did.

Ok well show me where you did. I could be mistaken but it seems you refered to the selling of the weapons and the part were I said they would be fine.....but not actaully acknowledging that Europe would not be as advanced as it would be today if it were not for Africa.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Because selling weapons has nothing to do with the standard of living now.

Yeah, but they made something out of it themselves.

How fine? Living in huts like many still do, just all?

Originally posted by Bardock42

Anyhow, the point stands that the arguments for helping Africa are some sort of guilt or conscience things. Those are merely moral arguments.

How would it be when Europe is partially responsible for messing Africa up? So let me gets this straight you go into somebodies house you mess it up but you ahve no responsibility in cleaning it?

Originally posted by parenthesis
...

But we have too much resources, remember? We are advanced enough to look after ourselves and others. So why can't we give our money to them, seeing as we don't need it?

....and you OWE us. Just saying it nice to help Africans sounds condensending. 🤨

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
So infringing on ones freedom is wrong, but allowing poverty to continue isn't ? I dont get it.

Oh, my bad, I will explain it more thoroughly to you:

Infringing on ones freedom is wrong, but allowing poverty to continue isn't.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny

And, I'm not making a personal attack on you by any means, I do like you as a poster. I am just trying to understand how you think....cuz it certainly boggles me, and apparently I'm not the only person who thinks you are wrong here.

Aha

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny

Being pulled out of poverty and disease isn't exactly being "pampered" and "rewarded".

Yeah it is.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny

And what in your mind qualifies one as deserving of help ?

Nothing really. Maybe the earned respect of the individual that wants to help. I am not against individual help at all. What I am against is the notion that we "should" help.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny

You are not required to do good deeds, but to do evil is just as bad as to see evil being done and to do nothing about it.

Not necessarily. But I think evil is to require people to help. Create the idea that they have the duty to help. In my opinion they don't, and it is evil to imply it.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny

By doing nothing, you are enabling the wrong to continue. Your silence supports it. One day, you will understand that.

Or one day you will understand my superior and more logical philosophy (well, while we are at being condescending why not go all the way?)

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
You are obviously blind to something, and please don't take it as offense, but the rest of us can see something that you just aren't seeing.

O-or the other way around. Considered that?

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny

Let me ask you something. And really think about it before you respond:

[b]Let's say there is a poor beggar on the street. He has five dollars, his last five left. A robber comes and takes away his money.

Now, another person passes by. Let's say a woman. She has five dollars in her pocket. She doesn't really need it. She sees the beggar who has no money and no food. She decides to do nothing, to just pass him by, even though she has money that she doesn't need, which she could easily give him to help him out for just another day.

Who is worse in your opinion ? The robber or the woman ? And why ? [/B]

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
You are obviously blind to something, and please don't take it as offense, but the rest of us can see something that you just aren't seeing.

Let me ask you something. And really think about it before you respond:

[b]Let's say there is a poor beggar on the street. He has five dollars, his last five left. A robber comes and takes away his money.

Now, another person passes by. Let's say a woman. She has five dollars in her pocket. She doesn't really need it. She sees the beggar who has no money and no food. She decides to do nothing, to just pass him by, even though she has money that she doesn't need, which she could easily give him to help him out for just another day.

Who is worse in your opinion ? The robber or the woman ? And why ? [/B]

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok well show me where you did. I could be mistaken but it seems you refered to the selling of the weapons and the part were I said they would be fine.....but not actaully acknowledging that Europe would not be as advanced as it would be today if it were not for Africa.

I said something like "Yeah, but they made something from it"

Originally posted by Alfheim

How would it be when Europe is partially responsible for messing Africa up? So let me gets this straight you go into somebodies house you mess it up but you have no responsibility in cleaning it?

I think you got good and bad from being colonized by European. It's not our responsibility to sort out your stuff. You should do it yourself. Europe had their own problems ...

Originally posted by Alfheim

....and you OWE us. Just saying it nice to help Africans sounds condensending. 🤨

We owe you shit.

Originally posted by Bardock42
We have no poverty in our countries?

When did that happen?

Originally posted by Bardock42
I said something like "Yeah, but they made something from it"

Ok I thought you were refering to the weapons ie Africans got something the selling of the arms. Bro if it wasnt for the Islamic civiliaztion the renassance would probably not have happened...so Europeans would not have been as advanced as it is today...so it works both ways.

Originally posted by Bardock42

I think you got good and bad from being colonized by European. It's not our responsibility to sort out your stuff. You should do it yourself. Europe had their own problems ...

We owe you shit.

No no no no. Look its real simple Africans are not blameless but you dont sell weapons to Africans ona regular basis and not have any responsibility, war does not make an economy better. Furthermore the economics need to be changed they are in favour of Europe and not Africa. The current state of economics was not set up by Africans and is not helping the situation therefore again Europe is partially to blame for the poverty as well.

This is what im saying you cant be partially responsible for messing something up and the have no responsibility to fix it.

Regarding weapons: Europe and the US are not Africa's nannies, if Africans want weapons we have no right or duty to stop our companies from selling the weapons to them.

So you are sure that Africa is much worse because of European interference? Why?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Regarding weapons: Europe and the US are not Africa's nannies, if Africans want weapons we have no right or duty to stop our companies from selling the weapons to them.

Even if the situation is making it worse?????? So what your telling me is that if selling weapons to Africa is going to make the situation worse and people are going to suffer you should keep selling them weapons???

Originally posted by Bardock42

So you are sure that Africa is much worse because of European interference? Why?

Well theres this and thats just for starters...
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt.asp

The legacy of colonialism — for example, the developing countries’ debt is partly the result of the unjust transfer to them of the debts of the colonizing states, in billions of dollars, at very high interest rates.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, that's your idea, but I criticize them because I am for the freedom of people. I think it is bad to do bad things to do to people, I also think it is bad to do "good" things to people for only their sake. People should not be put in danger and pain for no reason, but they shouldn't be pampered and be rewarded for things they don't deserve.

There is a difference between doing bad deeds and being required to do good deeds. It's not the same thing. I am not being hypocritical just because my approach is different to yours.

Quoted for undeniable, ridiculously good truth. I have been saying this shit for years and until the world understands this...their situations cannot improve at a "favorable rate". This is why I love you, Bardock42.

People have to evolve for themselves to a point of stability. Even the frickin' US of A had to kill millions of their own people in a "Civil War" to reach their "happy place".

Originally posted by parenthesis
I propose we let them work for us, and in return we give them the resources they need. Over time, they won't need to work for us, because they would be able to supply themselves, then work for themselves. It's a little distorted I know, but I'm not a politician. It might not work, but I'd rather we try, than do nothing.

This is similar to my idea on a solution. Provide the jobs, encourage entrepreneurship, and you plant the seeds of self sustained prosperity.

Also, all of you should realize that we are basing our idea of a "good society" off of our own societal norms. An industrialized and successful country may not necessarily be what the most of the people want. Even then, who are we to say that they deserve what "most of the people" want? Is it our place to decided another country's political institutions? Is that even morally right? The answer to those questions borders on theology, imo.