Thanos/HOTU vs. ELAINE vs. MOM

Originally posted by Endless Mike
What was depicted contradicts what was stated.

All of those things defy physics, but they don't defy logic. You don't seem to understand the difference.

Yet he is still able to move and think. Warlock was obviously just being an idiot and had no clue WTF he was talking about. Characters can be wrong about things, you know.

No, those things are not logically impossible. They are physically impossible, but not logically impossible. You don't seem to understand the difference.

Something logically impossible is something that contradicts itself and cannot possibly be true. For example, 2 + 2 being 5, or a square circle, or being able to move and think outside of time and space. Anytime something appears in fiction which is logically impossible, either it's bad writing and should be ignored, or there's a much simpler expanation (i.e. Warlock was wrong).

Learn the difference between logical contradictions and physical contradictions

before trying to debate me again.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Anyhow, it's a Marvel Fact for years,
that there are places BEYOND Space & Time in the Marvel Universe,
were several beings have been able to venture into to. (including Warlock)

"Beyond the Realms of Space & Time"

"I was Outside the influence of Eternity & Infinity"

bored

Originally posted by Air Legend
How is it logically possible for someone to fly faster than light when it is physically impossible?

noneyes

Originally posted by Astner
MoM stands for Man of Miracles, not Mother of Creation.

Man of Miracles is an AVATAR of the Mother of Creation. 🙄

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sorry Mike but I have to side with Mr. M on this one. When dealing with comics logic rarely ever actually factors into is. Think about it...

Logic(and physics for that matter) tell us that there's no way for someone to lift something like a building, airplane, or aircraft carrier because the object in question would collapse under it's own weight. Logic(and again physics) tells us that there's no way anything can exceed the speed of light.

But does that mean that we discount every strength or speed feat where just that kind of thing happens?

👆

I think the argument, "that's not logically right" in a Comic book forum,

is ... well ... illogical. stoned

Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, only physics tells us that. Those things are completely possible within a self - consistent logical framework, even if they are physically impossible.

No one here understands the difference between a physical impossibility and a logical impossibility.

Let me give you an example:

Physical impossibility - Flying faster than the speed of light

Logical impossibility - Flying faster than the speed of light without moving

Do you see the difference?

Your imposition of science in comic books is just as bad and annoying as Juntai's imposition of religion in comic books.

What you are trying to argue is just as valid/invalid as Juntai saying:

-"God works in mysterious ways"

-"Lucifer Morningstar is evil because the Bible says so"

-"The Lawbringers are not evil. They are just serving thier God- from Negation"

***********************************************************

You can easily see how the top 3 are Non-Arguments, because they are not derived from the comic books themselves, but from Juntai's own personal biases.

Well likewise, you are trying to use science and logic to challenge the claims of the comic books....and in that, you have no right.

Religion and Science have no real place here. When debating comic books, we only have the COMIC BOOKS to go by. Not the Bible, not a science text book, nothing except the comic book itself.

Please, stay on topic, and stop derailing from the focus of the thread. I mean this respectfully, and I'm saying this now, so that someone else won't bring it up later. Thanks

To solve the debate of what is logical, it's easy, just follow the companies established logic. Warlock can exist outside of time and space becuz he isn't held by eternity or Infinities sway. The LT told this to eternity a while back.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
To solve the debate of what is logical, it's easy, just follow the companies established logic. Warlock can exist outside of time and space becuz he isn't held by eternity or Infinities sway. They dont' have a destiny.

But aren't you annoyed by the fact that so many posters will try to use religion and/or science in a comic book argument ? None of that belongs here, only the comic books and their realm of actuality matter.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
But aren't you annoyed by the fact that so many posters will try to use religion and/or science in a comic book argument ? None of that belongs here, only the comic books and their realm of actuality matter.

Sometimes you have to use logic, science, and religion when the comic leaves too much wiggle room. But It matters not, Warlock is outside of Eternity and infinities grip, he can exist anywhere per the LT.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Warlock is outside of Eternity and infinities grip, he can exist anywhere per the LT.

👆

And per the fact that he did it on panel in the scans above.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
When debating comic books, we only have the COMIC BOOKS to go by.

Not the Bible, not a science text book, nothing except the comic book itself.

Please, stay on topic, and stop derailing from the focus of the thread.

✅

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Sometimes you have to use logic, science, and religion when the comic leaves too much wiggle room. But It matters not, Warlock is outside of Eternity and infinities grip, he can exist anywhere per the LT.

But that's what gets into a whole other mess !

One's personal logic shouldn't be involved, because you can't position your logic over someone else's.

Science is invalid, because the comic book realities do not adhere to our reality. The universes which exist in comic books have thier own physics, thier own laws, and thier own structures. Our science is irrelevant.

And Religion...please don't even get me started on that. Because of religion, Juntai claimed that the Lawbringers were not truly evil since they were only serving thier God- Emporer Charon....meanwhile, the Lawbringers from Negation are the most sadistic and cruel creatures I've ever seen in comic books to date !

We only have the comic books to go on...that's all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
ur wrong as the presence couldnt defeat the geb. show me elaine defeating all the uber beings at once like thanos did cuz until u do ur specuating. thats the difference she hasnt done it while thanos has.

thanos with heart=mom>presence=geb>elaine

It is becoming more clear you pick and chose what to read and what not to read. Elaine doesn't need to be shown defeating all the uber beings at once, she is that powerful!! Here is a scan you seemed to have missed.. http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5044/elainepowerfa6.jpg

😎

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Your imposition of [b]science in comic books is just as bad and annoying as Juntai's imposition of religion in comic books.

What you are trying to argue is just as valid/invalid as Juntai saying:

-"God works in mysterious ways"

-"Lucifer Morningstar is evil because the Bible says so"

-"The Lawbringers are not evil. They are just serving thier God- from Negation"

***********************************************************

You can easily see how the top 3 are Non-Arguments, because they are not derived from the comic books themselves, but from Juntai's own personal biases.

Well likewise, you are trying to use science and logic to challenge the claims of the comic books....and in that, you have no right.

Religion and Science have no real place here. When debating comic books, we only have the COMIC BOOKS to go by. Not the Bible, not a science text book, nothing except the comic book itself.

Please, stay on topic, and stop derailing from the focus of the thread. I mean this respectfully, and I'm saying this now, so that someone else won't bring it up later. Thanks [/B]

Originally posted by Juntai
😆

I'm not making an attack on you, but you have said those things before. Three rediculous statements that you tried to pass off as arguments in regard to Yahweh/Lucifer/Spectre.

If I could remember other examples from other posters about using sources non related to the comic books, I would, but yours stood out the most.

No hard feelings.

It's funny that you still cling to that, here a couple years later after I shut you down so many times back then, because you feel it's a way to slander me of sorts.

The truth is, we were discussing the social stigma of evil, and it's implications in a debate of 'who's more evil?', it's not wrong to offer another point of view. When 'Good and Evil', are defined differently to different people.

The point of saying "The bible says so", in regards to Lucifer Morning star, which you've vastly taken out of context here. Is because while the bible has no bearing on the events of the comic, because the story derails from the version presented religiously, it is still a perversion of what that text considers 'evil', so from those standards/point of view, the statement is one hundred percent correct.

The Lawbringers aren't inherently evil beings by their own decision, they are manifest of Charon's will. His evil. Which is what I was explaining in that old thread. Once again, showing you takings out of context.

I was offering objective points of view.

Now hop off the nuts, that was years ago.

Originally posted by Juntai
It's funny that you still cling to that, here a couple years later after I shut you down so many times back then, because you feel it's a way to slander me of sorts.

First of all, you never shut me down. Not once. Please don't flatter yourself 🙄

Secondly, it was months ago, not years ago. I was bringing up an example of religion being used in a comic book forum, and you are the only person I could think of. Like I said, it wasn't a personal attack.

Originally posted by Juntai
The truth is, we were discussing the social stigma of evil, and it's implications in a debate of 'who's more evil?', it's not wrong to offer another point of view. When 'Good and Evil', are defined differently to different people.

Right, but you tried to argue that Lucifer was evil because the Bible says so. Which is invalid, because the Bible has no place here. Besides...

Lucifer Morningstar isn't represented in Vertigo the way the Bible represents him. Lucifer Morningstar was a rebel. Not a sadistic entity. He wanted to fight for his individuality and his own freedom. He felt it was unfair that Yahweh have total control over him.

Lucifer Morningstar also couldn't care less about the suffering of his subjects in Hell. Infact, he left Hell, because he got tired of it.

He's nothing like Satan in the Bible. So your Biblical reference was WAY OFF 👇

Originally posted by Juntai
The point of saying "The bible says so", in regards to Lucifer Morning star, which you've vastly taken out of context here. Is because while the bible has no bearing on the events of the comic, because the story derails from the version presented religiously, it is still a perversion of what that text considers 'evil', so from those standards/point of view, the statement is one hundred percent correct.

No it's not, as I have already explained why. The Bible has no place here, just like a science or philosophy textbook don't have either.

Originally posted by Juntai
The Lawbringers aren't inherently evil beings by their own decision, they are manifest of Charon's will. His evil. Which is what I was explaining in that old thread. Once again, showing you takings out of context.

The Lawbringers are evil by nature. And one of them isn't. They are evil because they do evil things. They are cruel, sadistic, and destructive.

Lawbringer QZTR himself has killed and tortured more people than a thousand Hitlers could ever have.

And finally, no, they are not bound by Charon's will. Infact, Charon has even punished QZTR for defying him, when he sent Obregon Kaine to planet Korakorum against his will.

The Lawbringers do have Free Will, as one Lawbringer even rebelled against Charon himself. Nice Try 👇

Originally posted by Juntai
I was offering objective points of view.

Not when you referenced the Bible.

Originally posted by Juntai
Now hop off the nuts, that was years ago.

That was months ago, not years. And I don't care about you enough to attack you. I was bringing up an example of religion being used in a comic book forum, and you were the best example I could use.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
First of all, you never shut me down. Not once. Please don't flatter yourself 🙄

Secondly, it was months ago, not years ago. I was bringing up an example of religion being used in a comic book forum, and you are the only person I could think of. Like I said, it wasn't a personal attack.

Right, but you tried to argue that Lucifer was evil because the Bible says so. Which is invalid, because the Bible has no place here. Besides...

Lucifer Morningstar isn't represented in Vertigo the way the Bible represents him. Lucifer Morningstar was a rebel. Not a sadistic entity. He wanted to fight for his individuality and his own freedom. He felt it was unfair that Yahweh have total control over him.

Lucifer Morningstar also couldn't care less about the suffering of his subjects in Hell. Infact, he left Hell, because he got tired of it.

He's nothing like Satan in the Bible. So your Biblical reference was WAY OFF 👇

No it's not, as I have already explained why. The Bible has no place here, just like a science or philosophy textbook don't have either.

The Lawbringers are evil by nature. And one of them isn't. They are evil because they do evil things. They are cruel, sadistic, and destructive.

Lawbringer QZTR himself has killed and tortured more people than a thousand Hitlers could ever have.

And finally, no, they are not bound by Charon's will. Infact, Charon has even punished QZTR for defying him, when he sent Obregon Kaine to planet Korakorum against his will.

The Lawbringers do have Free Will, as one Lawbringer even rebelled against Charon himself. Nice Try 👇

That was months ago, not years. And I don't care about you enough to attack you. I was bringing up an example of religion being used in a comic book forum, and you were the best example I could use.

The point isn't about Lucifer or the Lawbringers though. And it's not about how I've maintained it's all a matter of perspective on what evil is, and I wasn't debating about a character being evil because his character in the Bible is, but because the Bible's teachings on what evil is, makes his characteristics so. While another might not consider it the same. It was merely an objective offering into the viewpoints. I was offering several various viewpoints in that thread. Trying to hit from different angles. You kept telling everyone that they were 'wrong', when the judgement is up to the individual.

No, that's not what this is about...
It's about you leaving my name out of your posts, if you don't want me to keep from considering it attacks on my character, then just don't do it. It's the repitition that makes it relivent and evident, regardless of you trying to pass it off as innocent. In fact, I can bring up a topic from less than a month ago, where you reference religion, and immediately bring my name up.
It's almost like you're beckoning me in to own you again.

But this is it, I'm tired of recycling this every couple months. It must be like this for MrMaster whenever GalacticStorm comes back, but at least he attempts to bring some new evidence to the table usually, and isn't marked by a streak of ignorance and denial.

Originally posted by Juntai
Funny, want to share exactly what a Lawbringer is now? Characteristics of Charon that he expelled from himself. They are just extensions of will and characteristics. One defying Charon is just a characteristic of that trait, the part of Charon he embodies. It does't truly imply free will. I wouldn't expect you to understand that however, or rather if you did understand it, to pretend you don't get it in the face of trying to present a rather weak arguement here.

It's funny that looking over this thread, and some of the previous ones where this was brought up, and dealt with, at those times. I could pretty much go back to a random 06 thread with us in it, and hit quote, and paste it here, since you have the same baseless arguement where you consistantly take what I've said out not only out of context, but litterally called a opinions on concepts right and wrong. I think what really gets you, is that going back to the thread that started it all, more people voted for Lucifer being evil than the Lawbringer, in fact without actually counting, probably had more votes than most other characters mentioned. I wasn't the only one who voted for him being one of the most evil characters, I was just the one offering other viewpoints into character portrayals and whether or not I believe they are full of 'evil' traits.

I could go around every month or so and throw your name out there about how you actually said Spectre is evil, when he's as natural an occurance as death is[is Death an evil character as well?], and maybe crack a joke about it. But I wouldn't do that, I'm more respectful, forgiving, and it's quite frankly not worth my time or effort.