Levels of Omnipotence

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
No becuz DC isn't an illogical feat whore company who thinks that they have to make more and more omnipotent omni reality rending muties every other day.

Originally posted by quanchi112
dc doesnt even have one supreme being. its just geb tied with the presence.

niether does Marvel. thanos only had the power of TOAA. There is another who's equally as powerful called the Collaborator.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
He can do whatever he wants, if he couldn't then he's not omnipotent. 😬

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
niether does Marvel. thanos only had the power of TOAA. There is another who's equally as powerful called the Collaborator.

So uhh,

Why is the "bolder argument" being brought up?

I think everybody should take the time to read this:
http://deron.meranda.us/topics/infinity/

It explains some of the basics about infinity and why one infinity may not equal another.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Then you're saying that it's impossible for there to BE an omnipotent being, since an omnipotent being couldn't create a boulder so heavy that he himself couldn't lift it, which is a limitation which an omnipotent being can't have.

No, I'm saying an omnipotent character can do whatever he wants including making a bolder that is so heavy that he cannot lift then turns around and lifts it. Also, if a character could not self impose a limitation on himself. He would not be considered omnipotent ,because there is something he cannot do I.E limit himself.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Then you're saying that it's impossible for there to BE an omnipotent being, since an omnipotent being couldn't create a boulder so heavy that he himself couldn't lift it, which is a limitation which an omnipotent being can't have.

Nothing actually prevents an omnipotent being from declaring that untrue and true at the same time. Logic is a limitation that any limited observer naturally tries to place on an omnipotent creature even though there's nothing to say it must (or even should) apply.

Originally posted by Galan007
So uhh,

Why is the "bolder argument" being brought up?

Originally posted by Kutulu
I think everybody should take the time to read this:
http://deron.meranda.us/topics/infinity/

It explains some of the basics about infinity and why one infinity may not equal another.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
No, I'm saying an omnipotent character can do whatever he wants including making a bolder that is so heavy that he cannot lift then turns around and lifts it. Also, if a character could not self impose a limitation on himself. He would not be considered omnipotent ,because there is something he cannot do I.E limit himself.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Nothing actually prevents an omnipotent being from declaring that untrue and true at the same time. Logic is a limitation that any limited observer naturally tries to place on an omnipotent creature even though there's nothing to say it must (or even should) apply.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Exactly, and since there's some kind of limitation present in every step of your rundown the omnipotent being can't really be an omnipotent being.

That's not true, if there were no limitations to what he can do then he should be able to self impose a limitation on himself. Since he can do whatever he wants. Besides, the limitaation your talking about is self imposed. If it were not, then he wouldn't be omnipotent. Having somekind of limitation is irrelevant, since he decides them and that is within his power.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Just to illustrate how unreliable the term "omnipotence" really is and the paradoxes that arise from the word due to the limited perceptions of the human mind. That unreliability doesn't alter the reality of the classification though.

If Eternity claimed to be omnipotent, then the UN comes along and destroys him.... Was he really omnipotent to begin with?

❌ Because he was beaten by a greater power.

Originally posted by Galan007
That paradox doesn't really aide your argument though, as the basis behind omnipotence is still there.

If Eternity claimed to be omnipotent, then the UN comes along and destroys him.... Was he really omnipotent to begin with?

❌ Because he was beaten by a greater power.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
That's not true, if there were no limitations to what he can do then he should be able to self impose a limitation on himself. Since he can do whatever he wants. Besides, the limitaation your talking about is self imposed. If it were not, then he wouldn't be omnipotent. Having somekind of limitation is irrelevant, since he decides them and that is within his power.

Originally posted by darthgoober
But if he limits himself, then he's not omnipotent.

I disagree. Chosen limitation is simply something that an omnipotent creature happens to be doing from moment to moment. Not using power doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Again omnipotence is a term to describe the beings power, not the power of the being in relation to others.

By the very definition of the word, an omnipotent being is greater then ALL others.

Originally posted by darthgoober
But if he limits himself, then he's not omnipotent.

If he couldn't limit himself, how could you say he's omnipotent when he cannot do something I.E. limit himself. He has to be able to do anything to be omnipotent, and that includes being able to limit himself.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I disagree. Chosen limitation is simply something that an omnipotent creature happens to be doing from moment to moment. Not using power doesn't mean it doesn't exist.