Kain(LOK) vs. Pyron(DS)

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1.

This is three years before the start of the series, which is around the time Pyron came to Earth. He was in the "furthest reaches of the universe." So in three years, from the limits of the universe, Pyron got to Earth. That is superluminal speed on an incredibly high level.

2. Pyron can eat Makai, did it in an ending in fact. The one where he proclaims he will then head to Andromeda in search of more worlds.

3. The canon guide, he talked to all of Makai and lured them out so he could battle them.

I know he can eat a world. I was asking why does it need a "powerful mind"? Go back you will notice that you said it as if you weren't sure about this.

That still doesn't mean he can't me mind-possessed. Having the ability of influence others to do things gives you no sort of immunity. Never mind your claim about it holding "trillions" of lifeforms. Why is it that I read the most incorrect things from the DS series.

15 minute limit passed

Originally posted by Burning thought
7. How comes? you claim Pyron would not be frozen even though he doesnt have [b]ANY time resistance? "I am bigzor godsor Pyron I can resist anythins coz ime big!" durlaugh and I can also overule every rule in gaming Universe coz I am pyrons!! durw00t[/B]

Originally posted by 4RX
...How do you know how far that universe extends to? And how do you know Pyron was at "the farthest reaches of the universe" when he got the message, and how to you know it took him three years to get there? Just because it shows he got the message three years ago, doesn't imply it took him three years unless in the scan where it shows him coming to Earth, it says "three years later". That is a good assumption, but it's still what it is. Lastly, doesn't he have the ability to teleport? Why leave out the possilibity of him teleporting closeby when he got the call?

I know he can eat a world. I was asking why does it need a "powerful mind"? Go back you will notice that you said it as if you weren't sure about this.

That still doesn't mean he can't me mind-possessed. Having the ability of influence others to do things gives you no sort of immunity. Never mind your claim about it holding "trillions" of lifeforms. Why is it that I read the most incorrect things from the DS series.

2. Why? How the hell should I know "why?" Makai physics are different than normal ones, I am pretty sure not having a strong mind renders you insane. I can't remember the exact quote.

3. Considering it shows that his mind powers are on an exponentially level than Kain's are, yeah, it really does mean that Kain's mind powers won't do shit to as advanced a mind as Pyron's, especially when his telepathy is greater. Having the ability to influence the minds of others is a telepathy feat, and said feat crushes any of Kain's telepathy feats. It does hold trillions of life forms as stated in Makai's description of the canon guide. Incorrect? No, it is just that, despite what you personally believe, your Darkstalker knowledge is rather pitiful in comparison.

Originally posted by 4RX
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👆

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. All time on the planet? no because hes never made inanimate objects freeze, only beings, objects are unaffected it would seem. Much faster? sure after he has built up momentum. Ego? I dont know about him, hes one of those queer marvel ideas so I wouldnt assume anything about how a LOk power would effect it.

2. I limit him because thats not what hes shown, hes never leapt out in space out of his fetal position and started punching planets and shooting fireballs. In the form of a fireball? your really grasping at straws, he is always in his fetal position while moving, the fireball is him, its his trail. Because Sargeras is a large slow being who would not be able to defend himself. Kain is a much smaller being who would likely A: have the ant effect (i.e if this is largest Pyron, the impact on Kains body would be smaller due to his size , like how an ant dropped from the equivelent of a skyscraper to a human, it survives) and the fact Kain wouldnt die from it. Also I dont think Sarg has any attacks to stop Pyron before the momentum.

Youve lost your own argument here, players are not canon, plain and simple, its a players choice to get the spell or not and Kain himself tells us he gains the spell, what the player chooses is irrelvent, maybe Pyron is weak just because someone left the control sitting on the floor and a toddler played and lost 100 times... maybe thats canon?

3. How is it shit, now your slapping a invisible limit on Kains teleportation? youve got no argument at all lol....and no, hes teleported Dimension distance with the Dimension reaver, you cannot beat dimentional movement in distance. apart from inter-fictional movement.

4. Show me the time limit of him changing size please, ive not seen it.

Who is actually saying its his stronger form? just because its bigger?

I have very good logic to indicate why Pyron could not do any of those things, you see Pyron when he grows small, doesnt lose his energy, infact he has condensed all his power into a smaller form, so guess what genius? Pyron can now use the energy hes not using to form an enormous size to create other effects such as blasts and explosions etc.

6. err wtf? Pyron can eat Makai he can travel dimensions....that doesnt even make much sense....and I said BFR to time or space, just shove him into the big bang....

7. How comes? you claim Pyron would not be frozen even though he doesnt have [b]ANY time resistance? "I am bigzor godsor Pyron I can resist anythins coz ime big!" durlaugh and I can also overule every rule in gaming Universe coz I am pyrons!! durw00t

8. No true, you conceded yourself, youve even said you had no arguments for it. [/B]

2. Dude, you yourself made the claim that Pyron can one punch planets and fire blasts at full size SEVERAL times, but now that he is fighting Kain, all the sudden he can't though, right? Lol, hypocrisy and double standards. Take a look at the scans I posted genius, particularly the third one which shows him in space during flight and then stopping, you see him in a fetal position? Hell no, he is a fireball. And besides, he can do lots of shit in a fetal position anyway. The ant effect? You are right. Pyron would crush him like a bug.

You are right, and to go through the storyline they do not have to even get the spell. Kain says he gets the spell if the PLAYER chooses to get it, if the player does not, he doesn't say shit...And guess what? You can still beat the canon story without doing it. What the player chooses is irrelevant? Fact is the spell is not necessary to complete the game's story, why must it be assumed to be part of the storyline? Because it would give Kain a power he never canonically has had, and would make him more powerful than he actually is.

3. An invisible limit? So we assume Kain can teleport anywhere in any timeframe? I did not realise Kain had the Space Gem. Teleporting to another dimension is not distance, it is dimension hopping. It doesn't prove Kain could teleport even to another city, let alone in space, and it is faulty logic to assume he could. Nightcrawler factually can teleport to another dimension, yet his limit is about five miles I believe, which is also a less of a limit than Kain's. And even if Kain could continuously teleport until he gets to space...By then Pyron would have slagged the planet and killed Kain/knocked him clear out of the solar system.

4. You have seen the scan of when he eats his home planet, it is that one, he starts at human size, then grows larger than a building, then bigger than the planet, with the planet being roughly the size of his chest, then larger still to the point when it is smaller than his hands.

No, based on the profile statements that directly state he limited his own power by transforming into a human form to fight under Earth's rules.

I kinda just destroyed that point.

6. He can eat/destroy(was never actually made clear which I admit) Makai, he would have to enter Makai to do this.

7. No, it is because Kain's time/space powers are not on a level that vast in any shape or form. And he can overrule Nosgoth's rules by the very fact that he is more powerful than its entirety and could devour it if he so wishes, if Nosgoth no longer exists, Kain and no one is subjected to its rules.

8. No, I walked out when you were arguing "Scion Kain" could beat HoM Scarlet Witch, an Omniversal Reality Warper.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. So we must assume that he can freeze and slow time on a being that is larger than Nosgoth itself though, yes? K, I assume Pyron can eat the universe, simply because he has never been shown not to be able to do it. Much faster in every sense of the word, even OVA Pyron is faster than Kain, hell, OVA Sasquatch is faster than Kain. Ego a living planet. Plain and simple. But we must assume that Kain can stop or slow time and space on a beyond planetary level though right?

2. Dude, you yourself made the claim that Pyron can one punch planets and fire blasts at full size SEVERAL times, but now that he is fighting Kain, all the sudden he can't though, right? Lol, hypocrisy and double standards. Take a look at the scans I posted genius, particularly the third one which shows him in space during flight and then stopping, you see him in a fetal position? Hell no, he is a fireball. And besides, he can do lots of shit in a fetal position anyway. The ant effect? You are right. Pyron would crush him like a bug.

You are right, and to go through the storyline they do not have to even get the spell. Kain says he gets the spell if the PLAYER chooses to get it, if the player does not, he doesn't say shit...And guess what? You can still beat the canon story without doing it. What the player chooses is irrelevant? Fact is the spell is not necessary to complete the game's story, why must it be assumed to be part of the storyline? Because it would give Kain a power he never canonically has had, and would make him more powerful than he actually is.

3. An invisible limit? So we assume Kain can teleport anywhere in any timeframe? I did not realise Kain had the Space Gem. Teleporting to another dimension is not distance, it is dimension hopping. It doesn't prove Kain could teleport even to another city, let alone in space, and it is faulty logic to assume he could. Nightcrawler factually can teleport to another dimension, yet his limit is about five miles I believe, which is also a less of a limit than Kain's. And even if Kain could continuously teleport until he gets to space...By then Pyron would have slagged the planet and killed Kain/knocked him clear out of the solar system.

4. You have seen the scan of when he eats his home planet, it is that one, he starts at human size, then grows larger than a building, then bigger than the planet, with the planet being roughly the size of his chest, then larger still to the point when it is smaller than his hands.

No, based on the profile statements that directly state he limited his own power by transforming into a human form to fight under Earth's rules.

I kinda just destroyed that point.

6. He can eat/destroy(was never actually made clear which I admit) Makai, he would have to enter Makai to do this.

7. No, it is because Kain's time/space powers are not on a level that vast in any shape or form. And he can overrule Nosgoth's rules by the very fact that he is more powerful than its entirety and could devour it if he so wishes, if Nosgoth no longer exists, Kain and no one is subjected to its rules.

8. No, I walked out when you were arguing "Scion Kain" could beat HoM Scarlet Witch, an Omniversal Reality Warper.

1. Its not about size, its about Pyron is a being, since its impossible to freeze a portion of a being, and Pyron has zero resistance to time powers then we can only come to the conclusion Pyron will be frozen, any logical person that is, a Pyron fanboy would still claim Pyron magically resists. Pyron eating the universe has no logical background on what I just said, expalin yourself.

2. I said its likely Pyron can, if I choose not to use other evidence in a debate that I would use against someone in a debate I can indeed, thats part of debating, leaving spaces wide for opponents to fill in, and if they dont do it, then you know youve got their side of the argument wrapped, it was only in that debate when Utrigos cleverly asked things I did not know or could not explain or have had proof for myself when I conceded on Pyron. Nah, Pyron would try to crush him like a germ, only thing is you cant crush a Germ. In the first scan=travelling in fetal position, 2nd scan fetal position, 3rd your trying to use distance fallacies to get you somewhere, it does not, it shows Pyron in the distance, you cannot even see if hes in a fetal position or otherwise. 4th scan, fetal position....

Exacltey, the player does not have to choose, now try and look through your bias, delete all the irrelvent, non canon player decisions and you would be left with Kains script saying he gains the spell, which itself is part of the universe unlike the players gameplay options. THat text/dialogue Kain has is still there even if the player chooses to bypass it, problem with your argument and terries is that you rely on the players decision as your backing for it not being canon when the decision itself of a player is uncanon and irrelvent.

3. I meant a limit on distance, you claim that Kain could not keep teleporting when hes shown no problem teleporting in the past, it doesnt drain him, he is untroubled. And whats all this BS about knocking Kian clear of the solarsystem? with what exactley? proposing the planet is indeed destroyed and Kain simply opening a dimensional door and appearing by Pyron somehow was negated. He wouldnt suddenly go flying out of the solarsystem.......

4. But you dont know the timescales between the scans, it does not tell you, nothing on it states a time frame.

He limited himself by becoming human sized, the fact is still true that he is condensing all that power and energy into his body, leaving it open to use if he feels the need, to form lets say...fireballs and explosions etc? 🙂

6. What proves he can enter makai? the fact he has the ability to destroy Makai itself does not mean he can enter the dimension its in, which confusingly so, is also called Makai if ive got it right.

7. What level of vastness, your not making sense, as i said earlier Pyron has no resistance, simply assuming not even a portion of his body (which is unrealistic since if a portion of you is frozen,your entire being likely is) would be frozen is ridiculous even if you dont belive Kains area is large. More powerful than its enteiry, thats an enormous biased logicless BS that creates a paradox argument whereby the opiniion Pyron is above the rules of the world, simply because you belive he is more powerful or larger than its inhabitants, that does not make him above anything, what nonsense indeed, someone being big does not make them overule anything smaller than them, perhaps the infnity gauntlet is weaker than Galactus just because its as small as Thanos' hand? no ofc not, you obviously have nothing but Pyrons size to fall back on since thats all he is....

And Nosgoth does not lay down rules on Kain does it, the planet is not choosing what powers are given to whom, its just the fact Kain is set by destiny so destroying Nosgoth would not help him, Kain is still invulerable and even if for some reason for arguments sake Kains body was destroyed, Pyrons soul is vulerable, since you realise a Vampire in LOK is not defeated unless you destroy its soul. Whats interesting is, Ime not sure Kain by the end of Defiance has a destoyable soul either...so hes invulerable destiny or not, and unbeatable to Pyron.

8. False, you debated that with me for a few minutes, the part where you left was after you said you had no more arguments, then 5 minutes later you said "your still wrong". Typical.....

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. Its not about size, its about Pyron is a being, since its impossible to freeze a portion of a being, and Pyron has zero resistance to time powers then we can only come to the conclusion Pyron will be frozen, any logical person that is, a Pyron fanboy would still claim Pyron magically resists. Pyron eating the universe has no logical background on what I just said, expalin yourself.

2. I said its likely Pyron can, if I choose not to use other evidence in a debate that I would use against someone in a debate I can indeed, thats part of debating, leaving spaces wide for opponents to fill in, and if they dont do it, then you know youve got their side of the argument wrapped, it was only in that debate when Utrigos cleverly asked things I did not know or could not explain or have had proof for myself when I conceded on Pyron. Nah, Pyron would try to crush him like a germ, only thing is you cant crush a Germ. In the first scan=travelling in fetal position, 2nd scan fetal position, 3rd your trying to use distance fallacies to get you somewhere, it does not, it shows Pyron in the distance, you cannot even see if hes in a fetal position or otherwise. 4th scan, fetal position....

Exacltey, the [b]player does not have to choose, now try and look through your bias, delete all the irrelvent, non canon player decisions and you would be left with Kains script saying he gains the spell, which itself is part of the universe unlike the players gameplay options. THat text/dialogue Kain has is still there even if the player chooses to bypass it, problem with your argument and terries is that you rely on the players decision as your backing for it not being canon when the decision itself of a player is uncanon and irrelvent.

3. I meant a limit on distance, you claim that Kain could not keep teleporting when hes shown no problem teleporting in the past, it doesnt drain him, he is untroubled. And whats all this BS about knocking Kian clear of the solarsystem? with what exactley? proposing the planet is indeed destroyed and Kain simply opening a dimensional door and appearing by Pyron somehow was negated. He wouldnt suddenly go flying out of the solarsystem.......

4. But you dont know the timescales between the scans, it does not tell you, nothing on it states a time frame.

He limited himself by becoming human sized, the fact is still true that he is condensing all that power and energy into his body, leaving it open to use if he feels the need, to form lets say...fireballs and explosions etc? 🙂

6. What proves he can enter makai? the fact he has the ability to destroy Makai itself does not mean he can enter the dimension its in, which confusingly so, is also called Makai if ive got it right.

7. What level of vastness, your not making sense, as i said earlier Pyron has no resistance, simply assuming not even a portion of his body (which is unrealistic since if a portion of you is frozen,your entire being likely is) would be frozen is ridiculous even if you dont belive Kains area is large. More powerful than its enteiry, thats an enormous biased logicless BS that creates a paradox argument whereby the opiniion Pyron is above the rules of the world, simply because you belive he is more powerful or larger than its inhabitants, that does not make him above anything, what nonsense indeed, someone being big does not make them overule anything smaller than them, perhaps the infnity gauntlet is weaker than Galactus just because its as small as Thanos' hand? no ofc not, you obviously have nothing but Pyrons size to fall back on since thats all he is....

And Nosgoth does not lay down rules on Kain does it, the planet is not choosing what powers are given to whom, its just the fact Kain is set by destiny so destroying Nosgoth would not help him, Kain is still invulerable and even if for some reason for arguments sake Kains body was destroyed, Pyrons soul is vulerable, since you realise a Vampire in LOK is not defeated unless you destroy its soul. Whats interesting is, Ime not sure Kain by the end of Defiance has a destoyable soul either...so hes invulerable destiny or not, and unbeatable to Pyron.

8. False, you debated that with me for a few minutes, the part where you left was after you said you had no more arguments, then 5 minutes later you said "your still wrong". Typical..... [/B]

2. So you are admitting that it is likely that Pyron can, but now that he is against Kain you are saying that he can't simply for the fact that he is fighting Kain? Wtf is this shit? That's biased double standards if I ever saw them, and you have the nerve to call me a fanboy? Lol. So despite the fact that you think that Pyron can, you are now saying he can't, because he is fighting Kain? Pyron's full power is a much stronger form than that of when he went to Earth, a stronger form of the same thing should logically be able to do the same things. Pyron's heat that close to Kain would incinerate him. You're not as bright as you think you are. Pyron enters the fetal position, and then turns into a ball of fire, look at the scans again. Distance fallacies? On the scan, we clearly see Pyron, not moving, is a ball of fire, not in a fetal position.

Alright, I will delete all the irrelevant player decisions. Kain never received Soul Death. You see, Kain doesn't have to get the spell Soul Death, playing the game normally, without getting optional or extra shit, you won't get it. And even if you don't get the spell, Kain still talks about it? Prove this please. The decision of the player is irrelevant and noncanon, yes. So going by that, Kain never got it, as the decision of the player to get it was noncanon and irrelevant.

3. It was a shit argument because of the amount of time that would actually take, by then, pop goes the planet. Which Kain will still be on. Well let us see, we know that while mortal, Pyron physically was very strong, then we know that Pyron while full size, is not only bigger, but more powerful since mortal Pyron cannot reach the size, making his pound for pound strength greater, as well as his overall strength due to size. And we know that Pyron moves FTL. That much strength, added with the speed of the blow, added with the fact that there is none to very little friction in space, means he will be flying very fast and very far away, and maybe even out of the solar system. Which would result in a death or BFR.

4. We know that it was one panel each, panels often convey time, we must assume it was over a long period of time though right? Pyron can grow his size very quickly.

He limited himself by taking a humanoid form, a "mortal" form. It's a fact that he condensed all his power into that size? Prove this please, as their was never any evidence at all of this claim. 🙂 Pyron was only stated to have self weakened himself so he could get a challenge from fighting the Darkstalkers. That is all. You are just speculating.

6. ...So Pyron can destroy dimensions without being in them? 😐 That's a pretty friggin uber feat dude. Better than the one I claimed he could do. And yeah, the dimension is Makai, with it destroyed or eaten, it would just be empty space, or just ruins.

7. Vastness beyond that of a planet. It is nonsense to assume Kain can manipulate time on such a grand scale he has never shown to be able to before. And yeah, more powerful than Nosgoth, a planet full of weaklings in comparison with Pyron, Elder God included. Pyron is above the rules, because he has the power to destroy the entire world upon which the rules are set and can devour it. And nowhere did I factor Pyron's size into this debate, so I would prefer it if you don't accuse me of doing things I never actually did. And the Infinity Gauntlet on-panel was more powerful than Galactus, Nosgoth has not shown to be more powerful than Pyron, so your comparison was clearly shit.

The rules and prophecies are centered around and originate from Nosgoth, not from Kain, with it destroyed, there will be no "prophecy" or "rules" to protect Kain. Then again you are also the one who said that Pre-Retcon Beyonder could not change Kain's destiny or destroy Nosgoth so this should not surprise me. And what will Kain do to Pyron with his soul? Nothing. So still counts as a win for Pyron.

8. Dude. You were really debating Scion Kain was above HoM Scarlet Witch, who shattered and remade the entire Omniverse with absolute ease. Even after I provided many of her feats.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. It is about size, but since you're not exactly the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree you wouldn't get this, this is like your claim that any energy manipulator should be able to manipulate Pyron's being simply because he is made of energy, it is a No-Limits fallacy, and it is the fallacy you most often use. To freeze the entirety of Pyron's form in time, you would need to be able to freeze the time/space he inhabits, and since Kain has not shown near the time powers to do such a thing, indeed, his time control is limited to a large room, it would be of no effect to Pyron in any shape or form. Pyron resists simply because Kain's control over time is not that vast. And Pyron has shown the ability to absorb matter and energy. Why can't he do so to the entire universe?

2. So you are admitting that it is likely that Pyron can, but now that he is against Kain you are saying that he can't simply for the fact that he is fighting Kain? Wtf is this shit? That's biased double standards if I ever saw them, and you have the nerve to call me a fanboy? Lol. So despite the fact that you think that Pyron can, you are now saying he can't, because he is fighting Kain? Pyron's full power is a much stronger form than that of when he went to Earth, a stronger form of the same thing should logically be able to do the same things. Pyron's heat that close to Kain would incinerate him. You're not as bright as you think you are. Pyron enters the fetal position, and then turns into a ball of fire, look at the scans again. Distance fallacies? On the scan, we clearly see Pyron, not moving, is a ball of fire, not in a fetal position.

Alright, I will delete all the irrelevant player decisions. Kain never received Soul Death. You see, Kain doesn't have to get the spell Soul Death, playing the game normally, without getting optional or extra shit, you won't get it. And even if you don't get the spell, Kain still talks about it? Prove this please. The decision of the player is irrelevant and noncanon, yes. So going by that, Kain never got it, as the decision of the player to get it was noncanon and irrelevant.

3. It was a shit argument because of the amount of time that would actually take, by then, pop goes the planet. Which Kain will still be on. Well let us see, we know that while mortal, Pyron physically was very strong, then we know that Pyron while full size, is not only bigger, but more powerful since mortal Pyron cannot reach the size, making his pound for pound strength greater, as well as his overall strength due to size. And we know that Pyron moves FTL. That much strength, added with the speed of the blow, added with the fact that there is none to very little friction in space, means he will be flying very fast and very far away, and maybe even out of the solar system. Which would result in a death or BFR.

4. We know that it was one panel each, panels often convey time, we must assume it was over a long period of time though right? Pyron can grow his size very quickly.

He limited himself by taking a humanoid form, a "mortal" form. It's a fact that he condensed all his power into that size? Prove this please, as their was never any evidence at all of this claim. 🙂 Pyron was only stated to have self weakened himself so he could get a challenge from fighting the Darkstalkers. That is all. You are just speculating.

6. ...So Pyron can destroy dimensions without being in them? 😐 That's a pretty friggin uber feat dude. Better than the one I claimed he could do. And yeah, the dimension is Makai, with it destroyed or eaten, it would just be empty space, or just ruins.

7. Vastness beyond that of a planet. It is nonsense to assume Kain can manipulate time on such a grand scale he has never shown to be able to before. And yeah, more powerful than Nosgoth, a planet full of weaklings in comparison with Pyron, Elder God included. Pyron is above the rules, because he has the power to destroy the entire world upon which the rules are set and can devour it. And nowhere did I factor Pyron's size into this debate, so I would prefer it if you don't accuse me of doing things I never actually did. And the Infinity Gauntlet on-panel was more powerful than Galactus, Nosgoth has not shown to be more powerful than Pyron, so your comparison was clearly shit.

The rules and prophecies are centered around and originate from Nosgoth, not from Kain, with it destroyed, there will be no "prophecy" or "rules" to protect Kain. Then again you are also the one who said that Pre-Retcon Beyonder could not change Kain's destiny or destroy Nosgoth so this should not surprise me. And what will Kain do to Pyron with his soul? Nothing. So still counts as a win for Pyron.

8. Dude. You were really debating Scion Kain was above HoM Scarlet Witch, who shattered and remade the entire Omniverse with absolute ease. Even after I provided many of her feats.

1. Stop bullshitting and actually answer my point, how is it anything to do with size? kains tiny bolt can freeze beings many times its size, the simple fact is Pyron could not have a portion of him frozen, and Pyron has zero resistance to time powers, therefore, theres no logic to sustain your little "hes bigsor so he is immune to time powerz!" theory. Being limited to a large room means that the part of Pyron targets will be frozen to the level of a large room, but since its impossible for just a piece of Pyron to be frozen, he would be completly. Because his ability has been shown to be not enough to take the whole universe thats why and there is no logical reason why he could.

2. Its likely when it suits me, When debating for Pyron I w8 until someone realises the gap and tries to fill it, yet nobody did fortunatley for me so I didnt have to prove Pyron could do any of those things in his large form. It takes no nerve to call you a fanboy lol.....you belive Pyron can resist it seems Time, soul powers and even the rules of LOK characters and powers tehmselves just because hes big lol....

Their exactley the same Pyron, only the energy he uses to stay his huge size is condensed into a smaller form, so logically he is using that energy for fireballs and other such powers.

A ball of fire? thats like claiming Pyron becomes a star just because he looks like one in the image where he is in the distance....he is simply moving, creating a trail, he never becomes a fireball in any of his fiction youve shown so far.

No you didnt delete all the player irrelvences, infact I dont think you really did anything, you simply claimed you deleted the irrelvences and then claimed Kain did not get spirit death....Kain himself tells us he gains the spell, whether the player sees it or not its moot, that dialogue is always there when you gain the spell, but since the players decisions are irrelvent, you are left with Kains dialogue alone if you make a list of the script.

3. Not long, teleportation is incredibly quick and Dimensional is even faster. You obviously read too many comics, this is not pokemon where Team rocket are punched by a squirtle and end up flying into the atmopshere (posibly transforming into a Pyron esque star or fireball 🙄 ) this is a battle, Kain would not suddenly fly out of the solarsystem, you probably understimate the size of the solarsystem itself if you think that, its more likely Kain would not move far at all due to kains friction would be hardly anything, he would be hit by the force but himself being so small, the force would be concentrated on a small area making Kain not likely go far, perhaps a planet away, this is assuming the battle is actually on a planet.

4. No we should not assume anything lol, thats your problem, you always do, and no he has not shown it, hes not shown he can grown vast sizes thats for sure, i.e, mortal-->maximum size in seconds.

Prove what? thats the only possible./logicaly possbility that Pyron could have done, is to put all his energy inside himself.

6. No ime saying he has the ability to destroy the landmass called Makai, the dimension itself is not necesserily within his reach however.

7. No not really, it has an imutable timeline that would delete Pyron but with that aside, the inhabits half of which could destroy him through soul power means (mortanius) or could BFR through both dimensions and time (Azimoth+Moebius) etc, your talking a lot of baseless BS, there is no logic in it. Show me any logic that points to just because a being could apprently have the power to destroy the planet, mean he is above the rules, there is zero logic at all, especially since he is only above the planet providing the rules are below him in teh first place causing a paradoxial argument. but its clear your just dishing out fanboyism by the cartload atm, overules Nosgoths rules just because he is bigger than it lol...please. And no my comparison was perfect, you simply misunderstood it (lack of intelligence perhaps who knows), the point was that we KNOW regardless of how big it is, the infnity gauntlet is immensly powerful, thus tossing your "Pyron is biggezor therefore can overule Nosgoth" to the winds.

Nosgoth is just a planet lol, what are you talking about? there is no evidence that Nosgoth itself creates its own powers, hell the world is dependant on the beings upon it, not the other way around, Kains destiny is written, its nothing to do with Nosgoth itself. Kains destiny, rules and powers would remain.

8. You listed some feats then failed to show any evidence suggesting how she could overcome Scion Kains infnite time manipulation.

HOLY SHIT!!!

Lots and lots of arguments...that I'll get to reading soon enough! w00t

KOSMOS

wait...what?

Oh yeah....*Back to Fallout*

lol, and you were encouraging this idiot in the other thread jaxxx, just think about that.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
KOSMOS

wait...what?

Oh yeah....*Back to Fallout*

@leonhart: not smart calling someone (or others) idiot(s) when a number consider you to be one.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. It is the exact same universe as ours in size, it has the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies, contains an Earth identical to ours, Makai is the only factor that is different that we know of, that and Hellstorm. Why must we assume it is smaller? Because you want to discredit Pyron, so you are making a biased assumption based on absolutely nothing but, you guessed it, what you want to believe. Well it said three years ago in a scan right after one that is in present time(those scans are not in the order they appear in the comic btw, before the last two it is about present-time Earth), and Pyron then came to Earth not long after the happenings in present Earth were shown. Well because we know he flew there, he flew there and eventually became so close he was a bright red star in the sky, this is shortly before he entered close proximity to Earth btw. I assume he cannot teleport that far.

2. Why? How the hell should I know "why?" Makai physics are different than normal ones, I am pretty sure not having a strong mind renders you insane. I can't remember the exact quote.

3. Considering it shows that his mind powers are on an exponentially level than Kain's are, yeah, it really does mean that Kain's mind powers won't do shit to as advanced a mind as Pyron's, especially when his telepathy is greater. Having the ability to influence the minds of others is a telepathy feat, and said feat crushes any of Kain's telepathy feats. It does hold trillions of life forms as stated in Makai's description of the canon guide. Incorrect? No, it is just that, despite what you personally believe, your Darkstalker knowledge is rather pitiful in comparison.

Well if you don't know why, you don't know why.

...every time I ask for a source, I get that I'm ignorant about the series. Well no s***, it's because no one feels like posting proof (if there is any).

K, be that way

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lol, and you were encouraging this idiot in the other thread jaxxx, just think about that.

Originally posted by 4RX
I am not biased for asking how big Makai is, I'm just curious, and I am also saying you don't know the method of transportation he used to get back to Earth, to claim he traveled "the farthest..." in three years, sides you or no one else knows how far the universe extends, and no one knows he can go FTL unless we see sumthing called evidence.

Well if you don't know why, you don't know why.

...every time I ask for a source, I get that I'm ignorant about the series. Well no s***, it's because no one feels like posting proof (if there is any).

K, be that way

2. Because of the killer atmosphere I assume. Makai is a harsh place.

3. It was from the FAQ from Saiki, who translated the DS guide, I have already shown you this.

Be what way?

Originally posted by 4RX
@leonhart: not smart calling someone (or others) idiot(s) when a very large number consider you to be one.

fixed

Yeah Leon honestly, I have had my problems with BT, but his points are not 1/8 as ridiculous as yours.

I'll answer your post when I feel like it BT.

thanks, I feel special 😄

Stfu

Originally posted by Burning thought
exactley, you hit the nail on the head at the end of your paragraph, it makes the player, nothing to do with Link, the fact the player has to go and get the key then its diffrent, and no, the developers dont always think of that, ive played so many games and ime sure most people on here have where a few slashes of their sword could break a wooden door or other incaccessable area without doing something complicated to get there for the sake of gameplay. ive been playing the Witcher recently, and theres so many set pieces, tiny bits of wood etc that can block the main character from getting to areas where theres a complicated mission to get to it instead.

It is, ime making a point with an emphasised analogy, however the above point I did not make up, you obviously are finding it difficult to understand my logic.

No part of that logic incidactes every character gets bonus material....if an object itself is uncanon, such as the harp by the sounds of things then obviously its uncanon material anyway regardless of how it is acquired.

"most likely", now your guessing, your point means little if your guessing, what are you trying to get at here, what is your argument with this choice with the train?

In my game, i let the train crash and destroy the town, which means later in the game i didn't recieve an item i could have got, and alot of the dialogue is different, like the villagers not liking Barret much,

But in the actual canon storyline, Cloud stopped the train, and Barrett is allowed in his hometown.

These are OPTIONAL things you understand? Just because you as the player stopped something, does not mean the actual character stopped it, just because you obtained an item, does not mean the actual character obtained it.

Obviously there will be different dialogue depending on what happens, your dialogue could be different from the actual characters dialogue.

Like if I obtained the Earth Harp there will be a bunch of dialogue between me and the elder.

But in the actual canon plot, there was no dialogue between Cloud and the Elder because Cloud never got the Harp, you understand?

The sequels are irrelvent unless they mention the spell, if they dont then you cannot take the negative of them not mentioning it as your evidence for it not excisting. Theres such a thing as developers changing the plot, listen to Madmel, people who made BO 2 were diffrent than those who made Soul reaver. The fact is, he does mention it when he does gain it....

Yes he mentions it IF he gains it, but there's no proof he did gain it, because its optional, it wasn't part of the story no more then KOTR or Master Materia is, no evidence suggests he gained the optional spell in the storyline.

The fact Emerald weapon is, does not make the Earth harp part of the world, just because Diablo dropped me a uniqie shield in the game by the same name does not make that Unique shield canon.... [/B]

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Who gives a shit how big Makai is? That is irrelevant to this debate. But if you must know, the landmass of Makai is hundreds of times larger than all of Earth, surrounded by an "endless" sea, which is surrounded by a barrier, and whatever is outside it. But I DO know the method, he flew there, I just explained this. The DS universe is meant to be the same in vastness as ours, infinite.

2. Because of the killer atmosphere I assume. Makai is a harsh place.

3. It was from the FAQ from Saiki, who translated the DS guide, I have already shown you this.

Be what way?

But you pointed out earlier that FAQs can have innaccuracies, why is it that this bullshit series along with a few others are the only ones that must have FAQs to back them up? Why aren't the feats just shown in the damn game? Hell, even stated in a game manual/magazine? We don't know how credible Tiamat, or Saiki are, nor do we know how well they speak Japanese, nor do we speak it for that matter, but we're to assume they're correct about everything. Balls dude.