Omnipotence,Omniscience,Omnipresence
which of these power would you rather have?
Omnipotence(all/unlimited power)
omniscience(knowing everything that can be known,
including thoughts, feelings, life and the universe)
omnipresence( ability to be present in every place at any, and/or every, time)
which would you choose and why?
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Omnipotence contradicts itself.The classic "Can God make a stone larger than he can lift" is a good example.
No it doesn't.
Omnipotence contradicts contradiction...
It contradicts all logic and all logical rules.
It makes it possible for you to make two plus two equal italian red snapper.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Omnipotence contradicts itself.The classic "Can God make a stone larger than he can lift" is a good example.
Onipotence only contradicts itslef due to the limits of human logic and language. True onipotence would be meta physical, where the laws of reason and logic don't really apply.
P.S. Im doing a philosophy degree at university.
Originally posted by Soljer
No it doesn't.Omnipotence contradicts contradiction...
It contradicts all logic and all logical rules.
It makes it possible for you to make two plus two equal italian red snapper.
Exactly. True onipotence goes beyond the symbolistic meaining of 'All powerful' that is limited by human language, i.e. like concepts such as Infinity.
Originally posted by DigiMark007Actually that "example" is one that I easily shot down in a thread dedicated to the subject of "Omnipotence is a logical paradox".
Omnipotence contradicts itself.The classic "Can God make a stone larger than he can lift" is a good example.
The only hard part I had was getting people to understand the answer to that specific example.
Create a rock that's larger than anything else in the universe. Then you can't lift it because there's nothing to lift it from.
The problem you face is Work = Force x Distance
Assuming you're smaller than the rock:
Lifting it with your hands would be akin to doing a hand stand. Lifting it with energy would be akin to flying from it.
Assuming you're larger than the rock:
With it being the only thing other than yourself. you still face a POV problem of being unable to mesure the distaence the rock has been lifted without the possability of it being you that moved.
With no way of mesuring then Force can be infinite, but if the distence is 0 the work is 0. and you have not lifted the rock. Because the big question my solution poses is: What are you lifting it from?
Re: Omnipotence,Omniscience,Omnipresence
Originally posted by lordboo
which of these power would you rather have?
Omnipotence(all/unlimited power)omniscience(knowing everything that can be known,
including thoughts, feelings, life and the universe)omnipresence( ability to be present in every place at any, and/or every, time)
which would you choose and why?
omnipotence
Originally posted by Supermanluv
Onipotence only contradicts itslef due to the limits of human logic and language. True onipotence would be meta physical, where the laws of reason and logic don't really apply.P.S. Im doing a philosophy degree at university.
Well good for you, I'm sure "university" is thrilled to have you, but it doesn't make you right.
Help explain for me how "true" imnipotence would get around those interesting loopholes, like the one I suggested. You can't, because it doesn't. Using words like subjective reality, metaphysical (one word, btw) existence, and the like do nothing to wash away the contradictions.
If you want to provide valid reasons why it doesn't, be my guest. I'm open to discussion, as well as having my mind changed. But semantic overload (using words and terms that you think your audience won't comprehend fully, and thus not be able to refute) isn't going to work.
...
If you want to talk about post-human concepts that humans can't currently comprehend (like imagining a 5-dimensional cube, which we can't) then that's one thing. But the very fact that it is just that, post human....post "us" and our understanding of reality....means that our opinion is instantly invalidated any time we talk about it because it is quite simply beyond our ability to comprehend, explain, or argue with. So speculation will only get so far before you run into ideas that can't be explained.
Originally posted by DigiMark007Help explain for me how "true" imnipotence would get around those interesting loopholes, like the one I suggested. You can't, because it doesn't. Using words like subjective reality, metaphysical (one word, btw) existence, and the like do nothing to wash away the contradictions.
If you want to provide valid reasons why it doesn't, be my guest. I'm open to discussion, as well as having my mind changed. But semantic overload (using words and terms that you think your audience won't comprehend fully, and thus not be able to refute) isn't going to work.
...
If you want to talk about post-human concepts that humans can't currently comprehend (like imagining a 5-dimensional cube, which we can't) then that's one thing. But the very fact that it is just that, post human....post "us" and our understanding of reality....means that our opinion is instantly invalidated any time we talk about it because it is quite simply beyond our ability to comprehend, explain, or argue with. So speculation will only get so far before you run into ideas that can't be explained.
👆 I feel like a child right about now.
Originally posted by DigiMark007There is a problem with the Paradox of the Rock though.
Well good for you, I'm sure "university" is thrilled to have you, but it doesn't make you right.Help explain for me how "true" imnipotence would get around those interesting loopholes, like the one I suggested. You can't, because it doesn't. Using words like subjective reality, metaphysical (one word, btw) existence, and the like do nothing to wash away the contradictions.
If you want to provide valid reasons why it doesn't, be my guest. I'm open to discussion, as well as having my mind changed. But semantic overload (using words and terms that you think your audience won't comprehend fully, and thus not be able to refute) isn't going to work.
...
If you want to talk about post-human concepts that humans can't currently comprehend (like imagining a 5-dimensional cube, which we can't) then that's one thing. But the very fact that it is just that, post human....post "us" and our understanding of reality....means that our opinion is instantly invalidated any time we talk about it because it is quite simply beyond our ability to comprehend, explain, or argue with. So speculation will only get so far before you run into ideas that can't be explained.
You see most people talk of the Rock Paradox because if God can always lift a rock then he fails at being unable to actually fail but the Paradox must first assume that the Paradox can exist.
Omnipotence is the ability to to do anything you want. For instance the ability to make Reality be 2+2=7 for no other reason then you want it to be so. So the Paradox of the Rock can not hold true because God(Omnipotent) can make reality equal him not failing at any given point because he chooses not to fail because that is what Omnipotence is. The ability to hold power that that is neither limited in scope or range or power.
So the very concept of Omnipotence doesn't allow for the Rock of Paradox because a being that is not limited to our scope and range can make it so that Paradox's don't even exist.
So conceptually you can not place God within the Scope and limits of the human mind because the human mind can not deal with the concept of infinity or never ending power.
So in reality the Paradox of the Rock contradicts itself because there can never be a failing point for true omnipotence.
Or to put it into a Mathematical concept for you. God will always be able to hold the rock but seeing as he can always make a bigger rock ,because there is no limit to the size he can create, he will never reach that point of failure because he can always go to another level. Therefore the point at which he either fails or doesn't will never come because there is no ending point for it to happen. Thus the concept of Inifinity there can never be an end.