Originally posted by killermover
IS there any scientific explination to explain Dante's biology?
Originally posted by chuck inglish
could someone get calcs for the pandora scene after the rocket launcher mode, Dante seems to be moving so quickly that his the large toads seem to literally be hanging in midair.oh and air trick isn't a teleportation technique its just Dante doing a flash step
Pandora scene: The time distortion appears to be 1/30th, the Frogs that would usually fall at 12.13m/s are falling at 0.4m/s. Given that time=√((2*distance)/gravity) or 2.473s=√((2*30m)/ 9.81)
30m/2.4731s= 12.13m/s
Circumference Grief is thrown is 250m if the distance is 100m and the width is 50m, done in 5 seconds. Argument travels just over twice the length [250m, near the same as Grief] and in a wide curved path [x1.6] in 8 seconds. Both roughly appearing to be 50m/s.
Thus both modes travel at 1,500m/s or Ma4.41. Hatred is at Ma3.
Also, summoning Argument only takes 0.2 seconds.
(Also a lil feat of Nero punching 6, 200 ton frogs back at 80m/s.)
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May as well note down Alastor's speed feat:
The glass in that scene falls at 10m/s, the time distortion makes the glass fall 0.01m in 12 seconds. 1/12,000th the speed. During this he was doing 2.5m swings in 0.5 seconds, 5m/s.
(10ms/(0.01m/12s))*(2.5m/0.5s)
=60,000m/s
Holding true to its 'Lightning speed' statement.
This also sheds light on something I think DeBell mentioned about high tier DMC speeds. Dante w/Alastor being at lightning speed makes Nelo Angelo/Corrupt Vergil also at this speed for being his equal. This puts Mundus and Sparda/SpardaDante at lightning+ for being above NeloVergil and AlastorDante, the same goes for Dante's DDT.
Here's a feat for ebony and ivory from the second novel( which is canon since it hasn't been contradicted)
Heres the quote “Beryl fired off five shots in quick succession. The rifle had been disigned to bring down tanks. Its ordnance could punch through steel plates and although it wasn’t the most accurate weapon on the market. it was lethal enough to take out its target through sheer force upon impact “Hey! What kind of greeting is that?” Dante spun around and fired off five rounds of his own. His bullets tore into those already in the air, raining gunpowder and casings onto the dry riverbed. The impacts created a shockwave that knocked Beryl to the ground.” ch.3 pg 41
ebony and ivory tearing through anti tank rifle rounds
@Charlote:
I saw a lot of gameplay mechanics and not a lot of calculations for some of these things. Biggest thing that caught my eye; Beowulf. Class 100 brawler? Where's the proof? When did we see Beowulf lift anything close to 100 tons? Besides, Class 100 is a very ambiguous term where a majority of the characters people like to compare to in that class (Superman or The Hulk) are somewhere around the class 1,000,000 range or more. In fact, Superman's strength is literally infinite.
By the way; a 'thunder clap' doesn't do it. That's more a speed feat. Cleary too Beowulf is NOT that fast.
Now about Dante being in the "herald' levels? That's laughable in several ways. Never mind the fact that the current tier system lists characters that are out of place anyway. Several of those "mid Heralds" would utterly stomp the entirety of the DMC universe.
P.S. Checking the tier system you have again at least one of the characters in the MId Tier are Solar System Busters.
"It seems you feel offended just because of that Dante vs Superman thread long ago...it wasn't good and I agreed that bloodlusted Supes wins."
I can only assume (as I haven't read the thread) that apparently you sided with Dante. When in fact Superman stomps effortlessly. Any incarnation IIRC.
"And Cloud vs Dante=Cloud getting pwned in quite a brutal way. A friend of mine, who is fan of both, declared such threads "an example of sin towards greater whitehaired good"- since it's either half spite, or making Cloud>>>>he really is."
I direct you to the debate where Cloud and Dante did fight on factpile. With Materia included Cloud wins that one. Without Materia Cloud is pwned.
"Although a bullet can pierce his flesh it cant penertrate Dante's skull. "
Never mind the fact that we saw the opposite. Unless you'd rather disregard one of Dante's biggest regen feats...?
"Vergil:
Vergil likes to get the job done without playing around, like his tendancy to stike foes down without speaking a word. His seperate speed feat shows this ruthlessness. Assuming the Hell Abyss are faster than normal humans so for this I'll have their speed at below peak human, so 15m/s, from Vergil's perspective they were moving at 0.05m/s. 1/300th their speed to him meaning his movements were 300x what they appeared to be. This makes Vergils average human looking 10m/s attacks actually moving at 3,000m/s or Mach 9."
Assuming they're faster than normal human? They're shufflers that Lady has no problems mowing down. Even with her at peak human that'd be an issue. No, adjust the speed for your feat calcs. "
Note- With a bare minimal rainfall speed of 2m/s with their bare minimal movement speed of 2.5m/s, the twins would be moving at around Mach 15 again."
You showed math for this?
"Tower dive:
The tower dive. When running down the tower Dante gets to such speeds that he shows visible friction heat. It was discussed on our cousin-site that an object, at least one the size of a fist, would need to be moving at Mach 5-10 for that to happen. His Rebellion was hitting this speed. Being a sword with a very small frontal surface area it would need to achieve greater speeds to get the same results. With the speed the sword was moving, Dante was moving around 1.5x its speed to catch up to it. This puts his speed in that scene comfortably in the Mach 10 area."
Yes, I see numbers and the work and math to pro-- waiitt a tick. I see nothing of the sort. I just see you assuming that based on the friction heat and the minimized profile of the sword that he'd have to be moving X speed. Not really enough to prove it aside from your word without any information added to it.
"Bullet time:
Dante was able to fire his bullets to match Lady's bullets in mid air. Assuming that Lady is using a pair of Uzi's with a muzzle velocity of 400m/s, that the shotest distance between their guns is around 30cm and that Dante fired at her bullets at the half way point aka after 15cm.
As seen here Dante hits at Lady's bullets at the 15cm halfway point, for a 400m/s bullet to hit a 700m/s bullet in the middle Dante would have to fire when her bullet moved 10cm. 0.1/400 = The reactions needed for the feat need to be 0.00025 seconds. This gives Dante a melee speed of 4,000 m/s or Mach 12 in the melee range of 1 meter. Different methods of this feat give figures around Mach 8. Credit to OBD's God Movement for the calc."
A few points. 1: Lady was only using one Uzi IIRC. Annnd the video you provided yourself back that up. That changes muzzle velocity and ballistics a bit. Also... Just because he can squeeze a trigger at the required speed means he can swing his entire sword around at those speeds...? I'm not following your logic here.
"
Strength:
Dante has the strength and speed, though most of his destructive feats coming from energy blasts and other kind of moves. Thats not to say he lacks physical destructive moves. With an upthrust he's able to do destroy a roof as a side effect from hitting a demon nowhere near the roof. For more intentional purposes he can do the same thing with much higher results.
Using a burst of DT Dante was able to cause the whole rooftop to explode and destory Abigale, one of the 5 strongest characters in DMC excluding Dante who could regenerate from a pool of blood, in one strike.
After his awakening DMC3 Dante demonstrates 300-400KJ strength when destroying the statue, damage is in comparrison to grenades and car damage. Then theres Vergil and Beowulf. Beowulf is a 15-20 ton beast with Dante being as tall as his knee, the ceiling 20m high seeing as the door Vergil enters through is 8x taller then him. With the Beowulf gauntlets equipped Vergil is able to punch Beowulfs 15-20 ton corpse to the 20m ceiling in about a second. This makes that hit in the 2MJ area. With the gauntlets, like Beowulf, Ifrit and Gilgamesh, the user is 5x stronger then normal, allowing them to one-inch punch your house down."
Where's the calculations on Beowulf's weight? Also the calculations on the joules required on the statue? It's almost like you're throwing arbitrary numbers out there that simply make sense.
"The two horns on his wrist both roughly equal the weight of a hand."
Based on...?
"Its body is made of a marble/limestone type material of density 2.6g/cm3."
No, its body is made from the corpses of demons with an unknown density.
"For the initial strike, the arm was flung at Dante at 100m/s"
Wut? Numbers for this too.
"
With one arm Dante was able to push this weight off of him by 3m in 0.15s or 20m/s. 3 meters come from being past his lean forward and arm with sword length of 2.5m in just over 1/7th of a second."
He used two arms. Never mind the fact that you're assuming how much weight Dante moved when in fact all you calculated was the weight of a single arm based on the density of the wrong substance.
" quote: (post)
Originally posted by chuck inglish
could someone get calcs for the pandora scene after the rocket launcher mode, Dante seems to be moving so quickly that his the large toads seem to literally be hanging in midair.
oh and air trick isn't a teleportation technique its just Dante doing a flash step
Due to the animation its teleporting, reminiscent of a lesser version of Vergil's Darkslayer teleportation."
In game description states it's NOT teleportation. Unlike Vergil's which IS teleportation.
Most feats concerning the saviour are blown out of proportion. The only gauge of strength "may" be from Dante pushing the hand slightly off of him but apprently according to CIDE Saviour is not made of stone/marble like I belived before. Also, the Saviour can and was at the time Dante pushed it hand capable of holding itself up, the other arm if you noticed is also suspended in the air, all Dantes really doing is moving the joint, if that to move the hand a short distance.
Also the pressure of the punch is equel to the required pressure to knock some stone about and dust into the air, its not high and Dante took it on his sword. I would argue he took a strike but he didnt stop Saviour, Nero had defeated Sanctus at this point which is why Saviour was frozen.
Also what proof is shown that the Saviour is not hollow? based on the fact its chest has a small cavern in it large enough to hold steps and an area to hold Nero its a long stretch to claim his arms are completly solid.
Unaided, Dantes strength is about class 10/20 at best but I would doubt that, his speed is the only major factor. Resistacne to harm? about bullet protection on his bones but he can be pierced/made to bleed by most things.
Urgh.. rather not discuss this on a respect thread. Especially as I have the feeling that he wont be back..
First up Cloud can't hope of beating Dante at his weakest, but that can be settled with a vs thread, not here.
Never mind the fact that we saw the opposite. Unless you'd rather disregard one of Dante's biggest regen feats...?
Actually right after that scene we see Dante take the bullet thats still in his forehead and flick it away. Point is that shot would have shot through a humans skull, not get lodging 2-3cm in and getting stuck the skull. And no, his greatest regen feat is Vergil's instant regen to bisection and Alastor tearing apart all of Dante's, ribs and spine.
Assuming they're faster than normal human? They're shufflers that Lady has no problems mowing down. Even with her at peak human that'd be an issue. No, adjust the speed for your feat calcs. "You showed math for this?
Actually no, what youre thinking of is the Hell Pride; the weakest of the 7 Sins. Even then they've displayed peak human speed against Lady and superhuman speed against Dante. The Hell Abyss is a higher ranking demon and is much stronger and faster than the 7 Sins, especially Pride.
Distance(m) / Time(s) = Scene speed(m/s)
0.5 / 12 = 0.0416666667
Actual speed outside of that slow-down effect(m/s) / Scene speed(m/s) = How much faster Vergil was than he appeared(x)
15 / 0.0416666667 = 360x
(x) * Vergil's scene speed(m/s) = Vergil's actual speed(m/s)
360 * 10 = 3,600
3,600 m/s = Mach 10.57921185
Depending on the Abyss used you can use the above or a (1m / 25s) for the initial Distance/Time to get 3,750m/s or Mach 11.02.
Yes, I see numbers and the work and math to pro-- waiitt a tick. I see nothing of the sort. I just see you assuming that based on the friction heat and the minimized profile of the sword that he'd have to be moving X speed. Not really enough to prove it aside from your word without any information added to it.
"It was discussed on our cousin-site" On OBD its been discussed a few times that a fist sized object must be moving at Mach 5-10 (I believe 7 was the figure used) to show visible friction heat. Seeing as we all know an object must be above hypersonic to show friction I see nothing wrong with the 5-10 ballpark figure.
Larger objects create more drag than smaller ones. In their case they were using a fist which has a surface area of 50cm^2, compared to Rebellion's point surface area which is only around 5cm^2. Having a smaller area means its creating far less drag, which means Rebellion has to move faster than a fist would to achieve the same amount of visible friction.
Finally in the scene we see Rebellion light up with Dante running even faster than Rebellion to grab hold. Its hard to say exactly how much faster but 1.5x is a fair amount given the rate he catches up on it.
Even using the minimum Mach 5 + needed speed increase for drag + Dante moving faster makes this feat Mach 10 bare minimum. Using a higher base Mach, greater speed need for drag due to area and if Dante caught up faster than 1.5x then this feat would pass Mach 25. But using the lowball figure is always best if some assumptions are used.
If the obvious can prove something, it does.
A few points. 1: Lady was only using one Uzi IIRC. Annnd the video you provided yourself back that up. That changes muzzle velocity and ballistics a bit. Also... Just because he can squeeze a trigger at the required speed means he can swing his entire sword around at those speeds...? I'm not following your logic here.
1. The calc was made with that in mind..just copy/past it without editing that part out. ^The calc is based on her Uzi vs his gun.
2. The original calc was made by someone else so I might not be getting his point entirely, but given that he was able to act as well as react to it means his actions are up to speed. He'd also need to pull the trigger at that speed in order to get the shot off when he did. Unless his finger is the only fast thing about him the rest of him would match.
Where's the calculations on Beowulf's weight? Also the calculations on the joules required on the statue? It's almost like you're throwing arbitrary numbers out there that simply make sense.
My mistake. I put the how I got the figures in other threads and assumed anyone that'd be bothered to read this would have already read those threads.
Capcom have listed Dante as being 6ft3in/1.9m. Against Dante we see that he only comes up to Beowulf's knee, for consistency against Vergil we see that he's the size of Beowulf's head. Given what we know and with an image of Beowulf we can see that his head/shin is 1/6th its height, making its height 11.4m and his width and depth both 2.5m each.
Compared to a 3mx2mx2m meter elephant thats <8 tons, Beowulf would be near 30 tons given that his mass is >3x an elephants. Using an elephant as besides having the closest mass of land animals it also has the toughness that would come with Beowulf's demon hide.
Statue energy is based off being around the same damage of what a hand grenade would do.
Based on...?
Based on each being the same size as half of the hand and both being equal. Kinda obvious if you were to just look at it.
No, its body is made from the corpses of demons with an unknown density.
"holds a millennia of demonic matter and spirit melded together" =/= only made of corpses. Besides, a thousand years worth of demons could easily make it far denser than any stone.
When Dante stabs it and Nero crushes it, it acts just as a stone-like material would
By appearance this stone would be marble. Now, you can easily say "but we don't know exactly what stone its made of so we cant use anything" Well thats wrong on two accounts. First using what its closest to is the best method. Second is that as the Savior can strike and destroy stone while suffering no damage to itself, that would make its material to be above generic stone aka much higher density than marble.
So marble is the safer/lowball figure.
Wut? Numbers for this too.
On a 1.8m human the punch arc is 1.35m. Being 88.888x a humans size makes the distance for its punch at 120m. The punch took 1.2 seconds, making the punch speed at 100m/s
He used two arms. Never mind the fact that you're assuming how much weight Dante moved when in fact all you calculated was the weight of a single arm based on the density of the wrong substance.
In game description states it's NOT teleportation. Unlike Vergil's which IS teleportation
"Disappear in the blink of an eye, then reappear above the enemy ready to strike."
"Aim above an enemy's head and disappear in the blink of an eye with blindingly quick movements."
The only thing it says is the he swiftly disappears. Theres also the fact that theres a tiny momentum when he appears where if it was just speed there would be a great amount that wouldnt let him just hop in mid-air like he does. And on that not he can do this in the air. He may have good aerial movement but he cant go ahead and start running on air.
That and Dante and Vergil have the same powers.
Thought we're not meant to come to respect threads to argue points, BT.
Originally posted by General Kaliero
Why are you guys debating in a respect thread?If you don't respect
KainDante, ignore the thread. It's not harming you by sitting there.
I'm gonna answer the posts you made but dont bother responding here.. well, unless you want me to start bringing up issues in the Kain respect thread too and get us both warnings. Argue in another thread next time.
Most feats concerning the saviour are blown out of proportion. The only gauge of strength "may" be from Dante pushing the hand slightly off of him but apprently according to CIDE Saviour is not made of stone/marble like I belived before. Also, the Saviour can and was at the time Dante pushed it hand capable of holding itself up, the other arm if you noticed is also suspended in the air, all Dantes really doing is moving the joint, if that to move the hand a short distance.
Also the pressure of the punch is equel to the required pressure to knock some stone about and dust into the air, its not high and Dante took it on his sword. I would argue he took a strike but he didnt stop Saviour, Nero had defeated Sanctus at this point which is why Saviour was frozen.
Also what proof is shown that the Saviour is not hollow? based on the fact its chest has a small cavern in it large enough to hold steps and an area to hold Nero its a long stretch to claim his arms are completly solid.
Parts are shown to be solid with nothing to suggest being hollow.
Unaided, Dantes strength is about class 10/20 at best but I would doubt that, his speed is the only major factor. Resistacne to harm? about bullet protection on his bones but he can be pierced/made to bleed by most things.
Only if the feats of matching Abigail, catching/pushing/deflecting the Savior and the newly calced flinging/spinning/punching the Ice Toads and crushing Savior's head, are ignored. Leaving out these 8 feats and he'd be "about class 10/20 at best". But I'm a fan of consistency, so...
Originally posted by Burning thought
Unaided, Dantes strength is about class 10/20 at best but I would doubt that, his speed is the only major factor. Resistacne to harm? about bullet protection on his bones but he can be pierced/made to bleed by most things.
Dante bleeding from that round is most likey PIS since he caught said bullet in his mouth with bleed and losing a tooth.
And Dante most likely in the 100 class from the savior feat.. Dante's other feats include him holding a demon the size of elephant with one hand in slicing it up and that's one of his lesser feats
Originally posted by CIDE
Assuming they're faster than normal human? They're shufflers that Lady has no problems mowing down. Even with her at peak human that'd be an issue. No, adjust the speed for your feat calcs. "
Lady killing the prides are PIS since in the intro scene where they stab dante they were moving at faster than the eye could see speeds and those were the lesser demons and the demons Vergil was fighting in that scene are physcially superior
Originally posted by chuck inglish
Dante bleeding from that round is most likey PIS since he caught said bullet in his mouth with bleed and losing a tooth.And Dante most likely in the 100 class from the savior feat.. Dante's other feats include him holding a demon the size of elephant with one hand in slicing it up and that's one of his lesser feats
Nero decativated Saviour not dante by Killing Sanctus although when did he hold up a demon the size of an elephant?
Originally posted by Burning thought
Nero decativated Saviour not dante by Killing Sanctus although when did he hold up a demon the size of an elephant?
doesn't matter if he deactivated the savior dante still took the full momentum of that punch and the savior being unconscious and putting all of its dead weight on Dante makes the feat even better and dante holding up the demon is episode 1 of the anime and also his bullets managed to juggle it in the air also (can't post the link cause Im a newb
Not quite, the Saviours other arm was also frozen in the air, I am more of the mind that the saviour stopped just after skimming Dantes sword, hence why it just dislodged some dust and rocks from the pressure and not far more. saviour is not a dead weight either;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HshcDFfgpuM&feature=related#t=8m2s
His hand is raised in the air, hes like a solid statue when he wants to be and his legs are still grounded, at best hes got the forearms weight on him and he pushes it back less a meter. The damage on the ground under Dantes feet kind of proves how little pressure is used though. As for the anime, thats my only hole in my DMC knowledge so I dont know about that.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Not quite, the Saviours other arm was also frozen in the air, I am more of the mind that the saviour stopped just after skimming Dantes sword, hence why it just dislodged some dust and rocks from the pressure and not far more. saviour is not a dead weight either;His hand is raised in the air, hes like a solid statue when he wants to be and his legs are still grounded, at best hes got the forearms weight on him and he pushes it back less a meter. The damage on the ground under Dantes feet kind of proves how little pressure is used though. As for the anime, thats my only hole in my DMC knowledge so I dont know about that.
I'm more inclined to think Dante asorbed most of the force from that blow when he caught the punch hence the less impact, The ground cracking under Dante is proof that it was the punch landed successfully cause without force that it wouldn't have did to the ground.
Also I'd say dante had the savior's whole upper bodyy on him since when he threw the savior off of him the whole body moved forward as which is proof dante was supporting the saviors whole upper body
At best you could guestimate the weight of its arm and then find out its speed to find force. But we still dont know for a fact what its made from and its hard to know, especially now some doubt has entered my mind that it may be demon bone and not concrete or marble as assumed before.
We also dont know if its hollow or not, large portions of saviour are hollow, the fact its horn or its face is not hollow does not necesserily counter the fact that its arm could be hollow.
Its fist also did not get cracked or damaged by its impact on Dantes sword, so the pressure should, had it been high cracked the marble, which I see does have cracks in it already.
I am still scepticle on how much weight Dante would be under due to the fact the thing itself props up a lot of itself, even its arm which should being on a joint flop down did not, and stood up in the air. I think theres a lot of things about the fact that Saviour is semi-alive through Sanctus are hard to take into account.
"doesn't matter if he deactivated the savior dante still took the full momentum of that punch"
Spot on.
You see, if a car is driving at 100 mph and tries to hit the breaks 3 ft from a person, that person is going to be taking the full force. The force decreases the more the car decelerates before impact. This small distance means nothing.
Now in the Savior's case there are two problems: Its impossible to claim that it deactivated before impact and not after. And that even if there was a way, there was no time for the 100m/s mass to decelerate to any degree to reduce the force. An impossible claim with an impossible effect.
Theres no time as the Savior's punching arm was straight, no bends in the arm. This means that even if the 'before impact deactivation' could be proven, it had to of happened the moment after the arms fully extended and before impact with Dante. Problem; As we can see the arm, like in any punch, becomes fully extended when it made impact with Dante.
Thus the final force Dante took was between 100% and 99.9999999999+%.
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Also BT, if you want to claim its even the slightest bit hollow then I'd like to see definitive proof.
Fact: Savior's material > stone. Marble is a lowball material.
