Supreme court rulings-
"An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery." State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260
"Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary." Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306.
For the full video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgrFSHZfD1o
OK, I watched the " full" vid.....dood is exercising his right to free speech, fine. towards the end he becomes beligerent, waving his arms in the air. The officers probably thought he would keep getting worse, because he WAS in fact getting crazier by the sceond, so they cut his mike and tried to ESCORT him off the stage.
now if you notice, at the 1:53 mark, he tries to RUN. He resists them and tries to RUN. at this point, he still was not under arrest. the bigger officer bear hugged him and was carrying him down the aisle, and then, at the 2:12 mark.................
the vid cuts scene to him on the ground. how bloody convenient, eh? we cannot see what happened that led to him being on the ground, therefore we CANNOT judge whether excessive force was used or not.
NOW...if someone can show me EVERY MINUTE of what happened, and I see that the kid did nothing to warrant the taze, I will eat my words.
That is a CHALLENGE.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK, I watched the " full" vid.....dood is exercising his right to free speech, fine. towards the end he becomes beligerent, waving his arms in the air. The officers probably thought he would keep getting worse, because he WAS in fact getting crazier by the sceond, so they cut his mike and tried to ESCORT him off the stage.now if you notice, at the 1:53 mark, he tries to RUN. He resists them and tries to RUN. at this point, he still was not under arrest. the bigger officer bear hugged him and was carrying him down the aisle, and then, at the 2:12 mark.................
the vid cuts scene to him on the ground. how bloody convenient, eh? we cannot see what happened that led to him being on the ground, therefore we CANNOT judge whether excessive force was used or not.
NOW...if someone can show me EVERY MINUTE of what happened, and I see that the kid did nothing to warrant the taze, I will eat my words.
That is a CHALLENGE.
By the time they tasered him, he was already on the floor, had four officers surrounding him and the cuffs were on (looks like they were, they shot isn't crystal clear).
Point is, he was much more of a threat before that, long before that. If they deemed tasers were necessary due to fear of injury to themselves or others, they should have done it long before. Good judgement is something officers absolutely must have, an essential, considering they carry guns, tasers, nightsticks etc.
Doesn't matter if he did. By the time they tasered him he had been subdued completely, on the ground, helpless - Of no threat. Whatever happened before that doesn't make a shit of difference, he was no threat and as such they should not have tasered him. Doesn't matter if he pulled a gun on them, once someone is subdued you don't START tasering them.
Originally posted by BackFirewell, with the cops surrounding him, it's hard to see what he is doing. all I saw was his hand and his shirt. I couldnt tell if he was cuffed or not.
Doesn't matter if he did. By the time they tasered him he had been subdued completely, on the ground, helpless - Of no threat. Whatever happened before that doesn't make a shit of difference, he was no threat and as such they should not have tasered him. Doesn't matter if he pulled a gun on them, once someone is subdued you don't START tasering them.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
missing clips from the vid. I cannot stress how important this is...what led to him being on the ground? how do we know he didnt assault the officers? why is everyone ignoring this?
Well, we can theorise all day on what he could have done; that would be stupid though, because for all we know, he shut his mouth and put his hands behind he back, in those "missing clips".
So we go off of what we have... let me ask you this, if you were one of the four officers there, he was already on the ground, three others were there helping you hold him down and he had handcuffs on, what reason would there be to taser him?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
well, with the cops surrounding him, it's hard to see what he is doing. all I saw was his hand and his shirt. I couldnt tell if he was cuffed or not.
It's very easy to see what he's not doing. That is, not being a threat. There's no movement really, he's just lying there talking. You don't need crystal vision to see that.
Eyewitness reports confirm such; that he was no threat to them.
Really simple - On the ground, not moving much, known at that point to be unarmed and asking "Why am I being arrested". Not the time to taser him. Taser him when he's flailing about, when he could actually be considered threatening. You don't wait until he's subdued and lying on the ground to start tasering him
Originally posted by RobtardIf they were trying to cuff him and he wasnt cooperating, I'd zap his ass. thats the thing, we cannot see if he is resisting or not.
Well, we can theorise all day on what he could have done; that would be stupid though, because for all we know, he shut his mouth and put his hands behind he back, in those "missing clips".So we go off of what we have... let me ask you this, if you were one of the four officers there, he was already on the ground, three others were there helping you hold him down and he had handcuffs on, what reason would there be to taser him?
"go with what we have?" afraid not. thats a whole lot of assuming, and its not fair to pass judgement on anyone unless you know all the details.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If they were trying to cuff him and he wasnt cooperating, I'd zap his ass. thats the thing, we cannot see if he is resisting or not."go with what we have?" afraid not. thats a whole lot of assuming, and its not fair to pass judgement on anyone unless you know all the details.
FFS... he's on the floor, he's pinned down by fours officers, theres at least one more to the side, he's asking questions (read: not making threats) and it looks like the cuffs are already on, exactly how much of a threat is he there in that position, compared to when they were carrying him away?
Talk about assuming, didn't you bring up the possibilities of him having a concealed weapon?
Originally posted by Robtardyou just said it...it LOOKS as if the cuffs were on. how can we be so sure?
FFS... he's on the floor, he's pinned down by fours officers, theres at least one more to the side, he's asking questions (read: not making threats) and it looks like the cuffs are already on, exactly how much of a threat is he there in that position, compared to when they were carrying him away?Talk about assuming, didn't you bring up the possibilities of him having a concealed weapon?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
you just said it...it LOOKS as if the cuffs were on. how can we be so sure?
Well, I can't be with 100% certainty, but it does look like they were. You see two officers holding his arms behind his back, and another that was holding cuffs messing around the spot were his wrist would be. I dunno, maybe the cuff holding cop was fingering his ass, but I wouldn't assume that.
For the 4th time now that I pointed out and Backfire pointed it out too, he was more of a threat before he was on the ground and surrounded. If they feared for their safety to the point they deemed tasers necessary, they should have done it before, when he WAS a threat.
Originally posted by Robtarddid I say that? what's so hard about cooperating with police? why didnt he just leave on his own accord, then take it up legally afterwards? he is a dumbass. he put on a show, knew what he would get, and received it. I have no pity for him.
So **** the First Amendment, eh?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
did I say that? what's so hard about cooperating with police? why didnt he just leave on his own accord, then take it up legally afterwards? he is a dumbass. he put on a show, knew what he would get, and received it. I have no pity for him.
Because the 1st Amendment guarantees that you have the right to express yourself (peacefully), without the fear of having some cop shove a baton up your ass.
Edit:
You do keep dodging the question/point though, why taser him after he was less of/not a threat?
Originally posted by Robtardyes it does and I agree with it. but do you not see the guy acting a fool, waving his hands in the air, getting all loud and shit? how could the cops know what he was up to? as far as they know, he could have been a member of the taliban.
Because the 1st Amendment guarantees that you have the right to express yourself (peacefully) without the fear of having some cop shove a baton up your ass.
he was Disturbing the peace, plain and simple. he knew what he was doing, he knew that they would try and escort him,and he knew they would arrest him when he tried to run. he just got more than he bargained for.
dont you think if he would have been more tactful, more polite, that they would have let him speak his mind? why the antics? why the screaming and arm flailing? why so damn accusatory? he didnt even give Kerry a chance to answer his questions.